Moving Away From Heavy E-Bikes

My '94 Tracker (the one with the cable clutch) had no rear brakes at all after the rear wheel antilock brakes failed.
I ignored it for over 2 years until it went to the scrapper.
Front brakes are enough, same with an ebike. 😂
That can't be if the antilocks failed they should lock right up!🤣
 
That can't be if the antilocks failed they should lock right up!🤣
The "RWAL" lit up and stayed lit for two years.
I had a gravel driveway, so I came in fast and hammered the brakes.
The front wheels left skid marks but nothing from the rear.
I suppose they could have been working and prevented a skid, but I don't think that they were working at all. They're supposed to lock up and release ten times a second or something. They should have moved some gravel around.
I just drove accordingly and gave myself extra space.
 
Because I own my bikes I can program them the way I like, just for me, tailored, not off-the-rack, not mass market. I have by the way ridden, worked on, and sold many brands with brand specific training, including Specialized. When removing data logging the controllers loose the ability to second guess. I will also often set the wheel diameter to 37cm and the speed limit to 45kph. Generally the fewer sensors is better. Most of my bikes now are getting cargo motors that are super smooth. I never need to say, 'Mother may I,' to do want to create & service, beautiful, lithe, practical, and strong eBikes that are tailor made for each ridder.
Tailor made funny thing Specialized and other off the "shelf" bikes are all about that in away. So your right and wrong at the same time.
 
The less data, the better. Good bikes have the tech invisible, they are intuitive, right brained for the user. Open, natural, in tune with the moment. They also don't catch fire. Left brained bikes are oblivious, they have gimmicks and gageites in place of feel and pull but instead provide data. The reason Strava riders don't wave and are jerks is because it is like they are in a basement on a stationary internet bike and not free to stop and pick up a puppy or talk to a neighbor or make new friends or to see and be part of nature. They are blind to the big open world all around them. Stuck in data. Dick's heads stuck in spandex.
I am with you all the way in terms of keeping it simple.

I've never quite understood the Stefan-bashing by some folks here, I do really enjoy his ride reports and other posts. Some of my friends have a tendency to be a bit... er, didactic, and are far more garrulous than he is! Maybe it's because part of my family is Czech? Some ancient relative told me once that if you go back far enough, there's a convergence of two branches-- our branch, with the last three letters of our last name "sky" and the Polish branch, who have the same first five letters, but ending in "ski." Anyway, our older relatives were extremely cantankerous, opinionated, etc., so maybe I'm just used to it or something!

I totally agree with you, Pedal, about Strava-- I've tried to use it again recently, and it's opaque in a way that I actually think is vicious and controlling. I hate software that is deliberately obfuscatory, that requires you to be a savant in their own inane and horribly inefficient UI-- like Microsoft Word, ProTools, or most Electronic Health Records. I am beyond resentful about that-- I don't just want them put out of business, I don't just want my money and time reimbursed, I actually want revenge.

I also think you are on to something in that using apps like Strava absolutely takes your head out of the game. You can't be on both sides of your brain at once except when you're young, and even then, when it's possible, it isn't cognitively healthy. I can't prove that, not a medical opinion of course, just a hunch.

* * * *

I am just so lucky that I found this place, and so grateful... and this forum is that rare example when indulging my OCD, rabbit-holing with search queries, asking endless annoying questions of members here-- when all of that had a fantastic outcome, instead of leaving me miserable and frustrated, which is the usual result of any kind of online shopping.

Because I love my underpowered eMTB (46 pounds after mods). I spent months researching it-- and Motobecane is pretty obscure-- and the few other obscure options in the same price and weight range. Lightweight, efficiently designed, reasonably priced, commercially made bikes with quality components from reliable manufacturers are fiendishly hard to find. If you search this forum for lightweight bikes, you'll find that often means up to 52 pounds that cost over 10 grand. But, mostly thanks to advice from some of the long-timers here, I found a really good fit.

It is perfect for where I ride and what I want to do, which is get a tremendous workout and go places I couldn't go on an acoustic bike. It is light enough to be carried up a short flight of stairs-- albeit somewhat painfully, as I am now a senior citizen-- but heavy enough to be stable (as y'all were noting upthread), and feels like a motorcycle when descending (pavement) at over 40 MPH. (To hell with smoking Vados-- I passed a BMW today, downhill on a canyon road, of course.)

What this means, in an urban area like Los Angeles, is I'm riding in places where very few other people ride. Either their bikes are too heavy to lift over the (few, but annoying) obstacles to get to the trail, or they are probably so light that people wouldn't ride them, say, over paving stones that stick up an inch or two from the trail.

Of course, I know that Pedal could probably build something with greater range, just a bit more power, and enough suspension to manage the hardest rails I ride, which are really not that hard in the larger scheme of things -- intermediate to advanced per eMTB project, but nothing compared to actual 'advanced' trails. And Pedal will be hearing from me in a few years, when I need to mod this bike more heavily or start over from scratch.

IMG_20230326_171821494_HDR.jpg


But for now? Super happy. Nice 12-mile ride today up to the sign and then down to the reservoir, then winding through the canyons home.
 
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5020 miles last year, lots of home improvements and a nasty winter kept my riding down. I also didnt record about 30 rides (just didnt care to) so add about 700miles. 6722 miles the previous year[/I]

1679897526992.png

4,989 mi.

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6,127 mi.

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5,233 mi. The work and frequent travelling kept me from riding more.

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2023 YTD (January - March). We have winters here :)


I average 150watts per ride going up to 200 in the summer.
As a disabled person, I only average 80 W per ride. (I think I mentioned my atherosclerosis of legs more than often, didn't I?)

If you are incapable of interpolating a voltage reading, thats your problem
Why on earth should a rider interpolate the voltage data if he/she can see the battery charge in %?!

I also think you are on to something in that using apps like Strava absolutely takes your head out of the game.
Strava plays an enormous social and motivational role in my cycling. I do not ride alone: I have cycling mates of both sexes I often ride together with. I can read their stories. I can compete with some of them and be motivated by them or motivate them.

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A University professor got motivated by me and started regular rides on his gravel and trekking bikes last year. Now, I am motivated by him not to be left behind too much :)

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A female rider. She commutes to work on her trekking bike, and sets-off for, say, 300 km trips on her road racing bike. Now, she's motivated to ride even more!
 
Why on earth should a rider interpolate the voltage data if he/she can see the battery charge in %?!

If you have the ability to interpret it, the raw data is more reliable than a manufacturers figures in %.

I'm sure you've noticed, eg, that the last 8% on the specialized disappears a lot quicker than the first 8% ? Or you can " drain " the battery then switch it off and restart with another 3% .

Or a 5 year old "100% charged" battery holds less wh / has less range than a new one despite being "97% healthy"
 
If you have the ability to interpret it, the raw data is more reliable than a manufacturers figures in %.

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If your Levo SL is still pre-Mastermind, you would make the best investment by spending several AUD for the BLEvo smartphone app.
Could you please tell me what information you are missing here?
I'm sure you've noticed, eg, that the last 8% on the specialized disappears a lot quicker than the first 8% ? Or you can " drain " the battery then switch it off and restart with another 3% .
It is more than that. The SL system protects the batteries by reducing the assistance below the 20% of the batteries' charge, and it significantly reduces the assistance below the 10%. In case you have requested "Discharge the Range Extender Battery First", the main battery kicks in during the assistance bursts (such as Turbo) to protect the Range Extender if the charge of the latter is below 25%. Hard to imagine such a sophistication on the rubbish that requires voltage readouts, don't you think so.

Basically, the main SL battery provides next to none assistance below the 5%, Range Extender always shuts off at 5%.


Or a 5 year old "100% charged" battery holds less wh / has less range than a new one despite being "97% healthy"
5-years? :D See the screen of BLEvo. The new battery had 320 Wh, now it has 302 Wh after 90 recharges. The Range Extender holds 158 Wh after 41 recharges (it should be 160 Wh).
The "Battery Health" is of little meaning. Now tell me how many systems tell you the exact battery charge in Wh at any given moment?
 
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View attachment 150282
If your Levo SL is still pre-Mastermind, you would make the best investment by spending several AUD for the BLEvo smartphone app.
Could you please tell me what information you are missing here?

It is more than that. The SL system protects the batteries by reducing the assistance below the 20% of the batteries' charge, and it significantly reduces the assistance below the 10%. In case you have requested "Discharge the Range Extender Battery First", the main battery kicks in during the assistance bursts (such as Turbo) to protect the Range Extender if the charge of the latter is below 25%. Hard to imagine such a sophistication on the rubbish that requires voltage readouts, don't you think so.

Basically, the main SL battery provides next to none assistance below the 5%, Range Extender always shuts off at 5%.



5-years? :D See the screen of BLEvo. The new battery had 320 Wh, now it has 302 Wh after 90 recharges. The Range Extender holds 158 Wh after 41 recharges (it should be 160 Wh).
The "Battery Health" is of little meaning. Now tell me how many systems tell you the exact battery charge in Wh at any given moment?

Can you explain how a battery at 100% charge only has 302 wh out of the original 320 wh, yet is 94% healthy?
 
Can you explain how a battery at 100% charge only has 302 wh out of the original 320 wh, yet is 94% healthy?
That's actually normal and accurate as battery capacity is expected to decrease. Phones and laptops read the same over time.
 
Show me a bike with 90nm that's lightweight as well as quiet as a Brose and I'd happily switch. But until then, with the hill I live on, I'll hang onto my heavy bike.

🎶 "I'm all about that torque, that torque; Hills? no trouble!..." 🎶
 

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Can you explain how a battery at 100% charge only has 302 wh out of the original 320 wh, yet is 94% healthy?
That is the point the "Battery health" is of little meaning. Did you notice Mission Control always displayed 100% Battery Health? At least with my e-bikes.
Only the actual charge matters.
Now, can you tell me what you can guess from the voltage provided? Can you interpret that raw data?

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Top class engineering.
 
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Strava plays an enormous social and motivational role in my cycling. I do not ride alone: I have cycling mates of both sexes I often ride together with. I can read their stories. I can compete with some of them and be motivated by them or motivate them.
I get that. Totally fair, if I rode with friends, I might have a similar outlook, and be more into apps.

My situation is totally different. I'm so busy (and disorganized!) that it's really hard for me to get out the door, and I'm staring at the screen more than I would like to be. Any added cognitive payload, particularly involving screen-based thinking, is just an obstacle to be flattened-- it stands between me and the ride.

One of my colleagues and I were talking about riding, skiing, and surfing alone. I had been bugging her for a decade or two to go skiing, I knew she'd like it because she loves biking and was a gymnast. She finally did, but her progress stalled until she started skiing alone-- and once she went solo, she graduated to single black diamonds, I am so proud of her! For her, the social part just added anxiety, the competition kept her from pushing herself.

I'm really about the solo thing-- though I absolutely will stop to talk to another rider, hiker, etc. if I'm at a natural resting spot. And during the worst of the pando, this was critical. I'd run into some young Latin-X guy on a stunt bike or something out by the reservoir, we'd talk bikes for 25 minutes, and that would be the longest conversation I had with anyone in two weeks!
 
I am with you all the way in terms of keeping it simple.

I've never quite understood the Stefan-bashing by some folks here, I do really enjoy his ride reports and other posts. Some of my friends have a tendency to be a bit... er, didactic, and are far more garrulous than he is! Maybe it's because part of my family is Czech? Some ancient relative told me once that if you go back far enough, there's a convergence of two branches-- our branch, with the last three letters of our last name "sky" and the Polish branch, who have the same first five letters, but ending in "ski." Anyway, our older relatives were extremely cantankerous, opinionated, etc., so maybe I'm just used to it or something!

I totally agree with you, Pedal, about Strava-- I've tried to use it again recently, and it's opaque in a way that I actually think is vicious and controlling. I hate software that is deliberately obfuscatory, that requires you to be a savant in their own inane and horribly inefficient UI-- like Microsoft Word, ProTools, or most Electronic Health Records. I am beyond resentful about that-- I don't just want them put out of business, I don't just want my money and time reimbursed, I actually want revenge.

I also think you are on to something in that using apps like Strava absolutely takes your head out of the game. You can't be on both sides of your brain at once except when you're young, and even then, when it's possible, it isn't cognitively healthy. I can't prove that, not a medical opinion of course, just a hunch.

* * * *

I am just so lucky that I found this place, and so grateful... and this forum is that rare example when indulging my OCD, rabbit-holing with search queries, asking endless annoying questions of members here-- when all of that had a fantastic outcome, instead of leaving me miserable and frustrated, which is the usual result of any kind of online shopping.

Because I love my underpowered eMTB (46 pounds after mods). I spent months researching it-- and Motobecane is pretty obscure-- and the few other obscure options in the same price and weight range. Lightweight, efficiently designed, reasonably priced, commercially made bikes with quality components from reliable manufacturers are fiendishly hard to find. If you search this forum for lightweight bikes, you'll find that often means up to 52 pounds that cost over 10 grand. But, mostly thanks to advice from some of the long-timers here, I found a really good fit.

It is perfect for where I ride and what I want to do, which is get a tremendous workout and go places I couldn't go on an acoustic bike. It is light enough to be carried up a short flight of stairs-- albeit somewhat painfully, as I am now a senior citizen-- but heavy enough to be stable (as y'all were noting upthread), and feels like a motorcycle when descending (pavement) at over 40 MPH. (To hell with smoking Vados-- I passed a BMW today, downhill on a canyon road, of course.)

What this means, in an urban area like Los Angeles, is I'm riding in places where very few other people ride. Either their bikes are too heavy to lift over the (few, but annoying) obstacles to get to the trail, or they are probably so light that people wouldn't ride them, say, over paving stones that stick up an inch or two from the trail.

Of course, I know that Pedal could probably build something with greater range, just a bit more power, and enough suspension to manage the hardest rails I ride, which are really not that hard in the larger scheme of things -- intermediate to advanced per eMTB project, but nothing compared to actual 'advanced' trails. And Pedal will be hearing from me in a few years, when I need to mod this bike more heavily or start over from scratch.

View attachment 150248

But for now? Super happy. Nice 12-mile ride today up to the sign and then down to the reservoir, then winding through the canyons home.
Sometime in the late 80s I think, Motobecane - the French bike company and rival to Peugeot, changed and became MBK or at least they did in Ireland & UK. I had one of their early mountain bikes around 1990. It was ok, mid range one, comparable to many others at the time; 26er, steel, 15 or 18 speed triple chainwheel, canti brakes etc etc but was just not that cool to own compared to the emerging US brands like Diamondback and later Specialized everyone was trying to get hold off. Same went for Raleigh or Peugeot mountain bikes - fine but bit boring! Later still and they seemed to disappear in Ireland so I was interested when you started showing your rides on here as I hadn't seen any in decades. It's a nice looking bike. I wonder did they go bust at some point and someone in US bought the name? Or just stopped distributing in Ire & UK.

BTW Is that the Hollywood Hills reservoir behind the bike? I remember walking around that back in 2018 or 19. Was staying in an airbnb off Franklin Ave. at the time. Great spot to have a decent walk. Lot of steep roads in those hills to test your gearing & motor!
 
That's actually normal and accurate as battery capacity is expected to decrease. Phones and laptops read the same over time.
I'm really struggling with all this, because I know Seeker's battery could manage about 45 miles with 4,500 feet of elevation when it had 500 miles on the odometer. But what can it do now, with 1,200 miles on the odometer?

I really want to go to the Verdugos, and do a 40+ mile ride this spring. How can I tell how my battery health has been affected? What's the best metric to use?

If I'm understanding correctly, I might go to the LBS and get my battery health evaluated, find out it's 95% healthy, and figure, okay, I'm good to go for the ride-- but find out the hard way that my battery actually can't go nearly that far.

I know there's probably no simple or definitive answer to this question, but I'd appreciate anyone's ideas.

Of course, I could probably make the bike even lighter-- get it down to 43 pounds or so by replacing the rims, the front fork, the pedals, seat post, etc., but I don't think that would make any difference at all! My own weight-- including water I need to carry-- is a greater factor.
 
Sometime in the late 80s I think, Motobecane - the French bike company and rival to Peugeot, changed and became MBK or at least they did in Ireland & UK. I had one of their early mountain bikes around 1990. It was ok, mid range one, comparable to many others at the time; 26er, steel, 15 or 18 speed triple chainwheel, canti brakes etc etc but was just not that cool to own compared to the emerging US brands like Diamondback and later Specialized everyone was trying to get hold off. Same went for Raleigh or Peugeot mountain bikes - fine but bit boring! Later still and they seemed to disappear in Ireland so I was interested when you started showing your rides on here as I hadn't seen any in decades. It's a nice looking bike. I wonder did they go bust at some point and someone in US bought the name? Or just stopped distributing in Ire & UK.

BTW Is that the Hollywood Hills reservoir behind the bike? I remember walking around that back in 2018 or 19. Was staying in an airbnb off Franklin Ave. at the time. Great spot to have a decent walk. Lot of steep roads in those hills to test your gearing & motor!
Absolutely right, Motobecane was purchased by Yamaha and became MBK in around 1981.

Seeker (my bike) is an Ultra e-Adventure made by Motobecane USA... and I really don't know much about their history except that they seem to be an entirely different company that bought the trademark. I don't think they're connected to MBK or Yamaha. The frames are made by Kinect in Taiwan, where a lot of decent-to-good frame are made.

The HAL series of Motoboecane USA bikes is sometimes criticized for having an older geometry, but a lot of non-pros who don't ride competitively find it more comfortable, a better all-rounder. The Ultra e-Adventure is an outlier even in Motobecane USA's HAL lineup. There are almost no reviews available about them, and no literature available online-- I was pretty nervous pulling the trigger. I guessed by exhaustive research that in a stock colnfiguration it was just under 50 pounds, and that turned out to be exactly right. I got it down to 46 by adding a CF seat and going tubeless (and .2 of an inch narrower) with the tires.

The strangest thing about them is the E5000 motor, which is normally used on city bikes-- hard tails, often purchased in fleets to be used as rentals in resort towns, etc. (It only has three levels of assistance, ECO, NORM and HIGH) So, on the one hand, I do max out the motor quite a bit, and may be putting an unusual amount of strain on it-- I wonder if it was designed to withstand the punishment I'm giving it. On the other hand, I only do that for short periods of times except on my most aggressive climbs in the Verdugos.

Yes, that is the Hollywood reservoir! One thing that is a lot of fun is to ride to the reservoir from my house, put the bike into "ECO," and just blast around the loop at 18 or 19 MPH, which requires steady, moderate exertion, fast enough to make cornering really fun but not so fast that you frighten pedestrians or risk collision with other cyclists or little kids. Including getting there and back from my house, that's one of the few 30-35 minute rides I can take that provides steady, moderate cardio without the heart-pounding, extreme exertion of 10%+ hills.

I love older Raleighs! I still have my 1973 (ish) Raleigh Competition, Reynolds 532 of course, at my old roommate's apartment in New York. I can still ride it at my age, and I do, but I think I'm going to have to get straight handlebars for it soon. My neck and wrists really do not like the dropped bars!
 
I'm really struggling with all this, because I know Seeker's battery could manage about 45 miles with 4,500 feet of elevation when it had 500 miles on the odometer. But what can it do now, with 1,200 miles on the odometer?

I really want to go to the Verdugos, and do a 40+ mile ride this spring. How can I tell how my battery health has been affected? What's the best metric to use?

If I'm understanding correctly, I might go to the LBS and get my battery health evaluated, find out it's 95% healthy, and figure, okay, I'm good to go for the ride-- but find out the hard way that my battery actually can't go nearly that far.

I know there's probably no simple or definitive answer to this question, but I'd appreciate anyone's ideas.

Of course, I could probably make the bike even lighter-- get it down to 43 pounds or so by replacing the rims, the front fork, the pedals, seat post, etc., but I don't think that would make any difference at all! My own weight-- including water I need to carry-- is a greater factor.

The decline is gradual so I don't think you need to sweat it too much in that short of a span.
That said batteries can differ even from the same manufacturer and then you need to consider how it was used / cared for or abused. Experience with a particular battery will give you the best insight into its performance. Perhaps take note of frequently repeated rides to estimate any change in performance.
 
Absolutely right, Motobecane was purchased by Yamaha and became MBK in around 1981.

Seeker (my bike) is an Ultra e-Adventure made by Motobecane USA... and I really don't know much about their history except that they seem to be an entirely different company that bought the trademark. I don't think they're connected to MBK or Yamaha. The frames are made by Kinect in Taiwan, where a lot of decent-to-good frame are made.

The HAL series of Motoboecane USA bikes is sometimes criticized for having an older geometry, but a lot of non-pros who don't ride competitively find it more comfortable, a better all-rounder. The Ultra e-Adventure is an outlier even in Motobecane USA's HAL lineup. There are almost no reviews available about them, and no literature available online-- I was pretty nervous pulling the trigger. I guessed by exhaustive research that in a stock colnfiguration it was just under 50 pounds, and that turned out to be exactly right. I got it down to 46 by adding a CF seat and going tubeless (and .2 of an inch narrower) with the tires.

The strangest thing about them is the E5000 motor, which is normally used on city bikes-- hard tails, often purchased in fleets to be used as rentals in resort towns, etc. (It only has three levels of assistance, ECO, NORM and HIGH) So, on the one hand, I do max out the motor quite a bit, and may be putting an unusual amount of strain on it-- I wonder if it was designed to withstand the punishment I'm giving it. On the other hand, I only do that for short periods of times except on my most aggressive climbs in the Verdugos.

Yes, that is the Hollywood reservoir! One thing that is a lot of fun is to ride to the reservoir from my house, put the bike into "ECO," and just blast around the loop at 18 or 19 MPH, which requires steady, moderate exertion, fast enough to make cornering really fun but not so fast that you frighten pedestrians or risk collision with other cyclists or little kids. Including getting there and back from my house, that's one of the few 30-35 minute rides I can take that provides steady, moderate cardio without the heart-pounding, extreme exertion of 10%+ hills.

I love older Raleighs! I still have my 1973 (ish) Raleigh Competition, Reynolds 532 of course, at my old roommate's apartment in New York. I can still ride it at my age, and I do, but I think I'm going to have to get straight handlebars for it soon. My neck and wrists really do not like the dropped bars!
Fascinating about Motobecane!

If you’ve got a shimano motor then I’m wondering could you at some point swap it out for a more powerful EP8 or 6 motor?! As the frame bolt positions would be the same etc. you might pick up a reconditioned one somewhere. Of course the computer and wiring might not work. Never thought about swapping motors like this.

Also I used road race on a Raleigh Competition when I was a teenager! It was a plain grey paint finish 501 tubing so not flash but I loved that bike. I think back then the mantra was pick Italian, French or English for road racing frames, Reynolds or Columbus steel tubing. But go American for mtbs, after all you guys invented them! The geometry on the US mtbs was always better then European mtbs. And just plain cooler. Whereas I dreamed of owning a Tommasini or Colnago for racing!
 
One of my colleagues and I were talking about riding, skiing, and surfing alone. I had been bugging her for a decade or two to go skiing, I knew she'd like it because she loves biking and was a gymnast. She finally did, but her progress stalled until she started skiing alone-- and once she went solo, she graduated to single black diamonds, I am so proud of her! For her, the social part just added anxiety, the competition kept her from pushing herself.
That's really an individual thing.

I do not mind to be riding solo. I just have riding friends. One of my Strava friends has just finished a gravel ultramarathon. 316.5 km (196.7 mi) in 12 hours 30 minutes of a non-stop ride, taking the fifth place in the race. Should it intimidate me? Not. That friendly guy has inspired me with what he once told me: "Stefan, the distance is something that only exists in your mind". I admire such people, and they are champions for me; I don't need to be a champion myself.

On the other hand, there are some riding buddies of mine who are irritating, quarrelsome and all; people who think they are super-cyclists and are always right. What fun it is for me to see the guy hasn't even ridden the half of my YTD distance yet :) So I just can smile to myself.

Yet, there is a little holiday when I have just returned from a group ride and can see "Stefan M rode with ... and 8 other people" ❤️
 
View attachment 150265
4,989 mi.

Plus a bunch more strava gibberish

So you asked for my stats 'as proof' and have now used those as some sort of comparison. I figured this would happen but decided to play along.

What is you final analysis/conclusion?

Its obvious you validate yourself by your strava stats and comparing yourself to others who 'dont measure up'. You sound very competitive. Perhaps being disabled enforces this.

Im pretty sure you are the only one on EBR who cares about this. Instead of 'spamming' your stats on all these threads, it seems like a good thing to do is start a thread 'dedicated' to posting strava stats. It would fit in perfectly with your typical 'Im the center of the ebiking world' threads. I can start the thread if you would like.

I measure my experience by getting out and riding everyday and enjoying being outside and in nature, not by comparing my strava stats to other people
 
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