Moving Away From Heavy E-Bikes

It was great to see everyone out on bikes today. Now we are in for more storms. The freeway, 101, that links my town to the next town to the South is closed in the S. bound direction. The frontage road above it collapsed in a land slide, exposing twin 16" gas lines and threating to cover the freeway. The frontage road is also the bike path and the only way to the dump. The rains will hit staring Monday night and lasting until Wednesday night.
View attachment 150214View attachment 150216View attachment 150217
Today was 60° in my local area and everyone and their mother were out for a ride... It made the trail a little crowded but it was nice to see, especially the kiddies enjoying the perfect riding weather.
I didn't have the heart to tell any of them they were doing it wrong on their heavy bikes and not logging the day in Strava... I just hope they don't need to prove to anyone that they rode today.
 
I had a great day but didn't smoke any Vados.
I have a hard enough time keeping track of the numbers, I don't need no Vado fog making it worse.
 
Because I own my bikes I can program them the way I like, just for me, tailored, not off-the-rack, not mass market.
I can "program" my e-bikes in these ways:
  • Set the leg power amplification factor
  • Set the maximum motor power allowed
  • Instruct my e-bike to ride for specified time on given battery charge, including Range Extenders
  • Tell my e-bike to cover specified distance and elevation gain with given battery charge
  • Ask my bike to only increase the assist when my heart rate exceeds specifies bpm.
There are the only things a rider needs to set to be able to make advanced rides. Most of e-bikes does not have such capabilities.
My display shows me real-time voltage and wattage consumption as well as an odometer.
Who on earth would need the voltage display? You need an accurate battery % for the ride. (The app for my bikes can display battery/motor V, A, W, and Wh/km or mile but the first three parameters are not practical during the ride). What is practical, is this information:

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or
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In both cases, the smartphone and a bike GPS computer are connected to the e-bike. The app data (left) can presently be seen just on the new Mastermind display, and there is more to show there in multiple display screens.

(I was riding hands free when I was a kid (every kid can do it). I cannot do it anymore.)

You guys said: "Bikes are tools not toys". You are totally correct. Bikes are tools not toys. They seem to be toys for you but I'm riding them. That's why I asked you guys to prove you were riding your e-bikes and how much.
 
Summary form Garmin Connect:

5020 miles last year, lots of home improvements and a nasty winter kept my riding down. I also didnt record about 30 rides (just didnt care to) so add about 700miles. 6722 miles the previous year

I average 150watts per ride going up to 200 in the summer.

I dont post my strava account as many rides are from/near my house. My ego doesnt override my common sense

If you are incapable of interpolating a voltage reading, thats your problem

I dont care if it is called it a toy or tool. I enjoy riding it

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My '94 Tracker (the one with the cable clutch) had no rear brakes at all after the rear wheel antilock brakes failed.
I ignored it for over 2 years until it went to the scrapper.
Front brakes are enough, same with an ebike. 😂
That can't be if the antilocks failed they should lock right up!🤣
 
That can't be if the antilocks failed they should lock right up!🤣
The "RWAL" lit up and stayed lit for two years.
I had a gravel driveway, so I came in fast and hammered the brakes.
The front wheels left skid marks but nothing from the rear.
I suppose they could have been working and prevented a skid, but I don't think that they were working at all. They're supposed to lock up and release ten times a second or something. They should have moved some gravel around.
I just drove accordingly and gave myself extra space.
 
Because I own my bikes I can program them the way I like, just for me, tailored, not off-the-rack, not mass market. I have by the way ridden, worked on, and sold many brands with brand specific training, including Specialized. When removing data logging the controllers loose the ability to second guess. I will also often set the wheel diameter to 37cm and the speed limit to 45kph. Generally the fewer sensors is better. Most of my bikes now are getting cargo motors that are super smooth. I never need to say, 'Mother may I,' to do want to create & service, beautiful, lithe, practical, and strong eBikes that are tailor made for each ridder.
Tailor made funny thing Specialized and other off the "shelf" bikes are all about that in away. So your right and wrong at the same time.
 
The less data, the better. Good bikes have the tech invisible, they are intuitive, right brained for the user. Open, natural, in tune with the moment. They also don't catch fire. Left brained bikes are oblivious, they have gimmicks and gageites in place of feel and pull but instead provide data. The reason Strava riders don't wave and are jerks is because it is like they are in a basement on a stationary internet bike and not free to stop and pick up a puppy or talk to a neighbor or make new friends or to see and be part of nature. They are blind to the big open world all around them. Stuck in data. Dick's heads stuck in spandex.
I am with you all the way in terms of keeping it simple.

I've never quite understood the Stefan-bashing by some folks here, I do really enjoy his ride reports and other posts. Some of my friends have a tendency to be a bit... er, didactic, and are far more garrulous than he is! Maybe it's because part of my family is Czech? Some ancient relative told me once that if you go back far enough, there's a convergence of two branches-- our branch, with the last three letters of our last name "sky" and the Polish branch, who have the same first five letters, but ending in "ski." Anyway, our older relatives were extremely cantankerous, opinionated, etc., so maybe I'm just used to it or something!

I totally agree with you, Pedal, about Strava-- I've tried to use it again recently, and it's opaque in a way that I actually think is vicious and controlling. I hate software that is deliberately obfuscatory, that requires you to be a savant in their own inane and horribly inefficient UI-- like Microsoft Word, ProTools, or most Electronic Health Records. I am beyond resentful about that-- I don't just want them put out of business, I don't just want my money and time reimbursed, I actually want revenge.

I also think you are on to something in that using apps like Strava absolutely takes your head out of the game. You can't be on both sides of your brain at once except when you're young, and even then, when it's possible, it isn't cognitively healthy. I can't prove that, not a medical opinion of course, just a hunch.

* * * *

I am just so lucky that I found this place, and so grateful... and this forum is that rare example when indulging my OCD, rabbit-holing with search queries, asking endless annoying questions of members here-- when all of that had a fantastic outcome, instead of leaving me miserable and frustrated, which is the usual result of any kind of online shopping.

Because I love my underpowered eMTB (46 pounds after mods). I spent months researching it-- and Motobecane is pretty obscure-- and the few other obscure options in the same price and weight range. Lightweight, efficiently designed, reasonably priced, commercially made bikes with quality components from reliable manufacturers are fiendishly hard to find. If you search this forum for lightweight bikes, you'll find that often means up to 52 pounds that cost over 10 grand. But, mostly thanks to advice from some of the long-timers here, I found a really good fit.

It is perfect for where I ride and what I want to do, which is get a tremendous workout and go places I couldn't go on an acoustic bike. It is light enough to be carried up a short flight of stairs-- albeit somewhat painfully, as I am now a senior citizen-- but heavy enough to be stable (as y'all were noting upthread), and feels like a motorcycle when descending (pavement) at over 40 MPH. (To hell with smoking Vados-- I passed a BMW today, downhill on a canyon road, of course.)

What this means, in an urban area like Los Angeles, is I'm riding in places where very few other people ride. Either their bikes are too heavy to lift over the (few, but annoying) obstacles to get to the trail, or they are probably so light that people wouldn't ride them, say, over paving stones that stick up an inch or two from the trail.

Of course, I know that Pedal could probably build something with greater range, just a bit more power, and enough suspension to manage the hardest rails I ride, which are really not that hard in the larger scheme of things -- intermediate to advanced per eMTB project, but nothing compared to actual 'advanced' trails. And Pedal will be hearing from me in a few years, when I need to mod this bike more heavily or start over from scratch.

IMG_20230326_171821494_HDR.jpg


But for now? Super happy. Nice 12-mile ride today up to the sign and then down to the reservoir, then winding through the canyons home.
 
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5020 miles last year, lots of home improvements and a nasty winter kept my riding down. I also didnt record about 30 rides (just didnt care to) so add about 700miles. 6722 miles the previous year[/I]

1679897526992.png

4,989 mi.

1679897598719.png

6,127 mi.

1679897678995.png

5,233 mi. The work and frequent travelling kept me from riding more.

1679897783757.png

2023 YTD (January - March). We have winters here :)


I average 150watts per ride going up to 200 in the summer.
As a disabled person, I only average 80 W per ride. (I think I mentioned my atherosclerosis of legs more than often, didn't I?)

If you are incapable of interpolating a voltage reading, thats your problem
Why on earth should a rider interpolate the voltage data if he/she can see the battery charge in %?!

I also think you are on to something in that using apps like Strava absolutely takes your head out of the game.
Strava plays an enormous social and motivational role in my cycling. I do not ride alone: I have cycling mates of both sexes I often ride together with. I can read their stories. I can compete with some of them and be motivated by them or motivate them.

1679899070317.png

A University professor got motivated by me and started regular rides on his gravel and trekking bikes last year. Now, I am motivated by him not to be left behind too much :)

1679899219879.png

A female rider. She commutes to work on her trekking bike, and sets-off for, say, 300 km trips on her road racing bike. Now, she's motivated to ride even more!
 
Why on earth should a rider interpolate the voltage data if he/she can see the battery charge in %?!

If you have the ability to interpret it, the raw data is more reliable than a manufacturers figures in %.

I'm sure you've noticed, eg, that the last 8% on the specialized disappears a lot quicker than the first 8% ? Or you can " drain " the battery then switch it off and restart with another 3% .

Or a 5 year old "100% charged" battery holds less wh / has less range than a new one despite being "97% healthy"
 
If you have the ability to interpret it, the raw data is more reliable than a manufacturers figures in %.

1679914415359.png

1679915468539.png

If your Levo SL is still pre-Mastermind, you would make the best investment by spending several AUD for the BLEvo smartphone app.
Could you please tell me what information you are missing here?
I'm sure you've noticed, eg, that the last 8% on the specialized disappears a lot quicker than the first 8% ? Or you can " drain " the battery then switch it off and restart with another 3% .
It is more than that. The SL system protects the batteries by reducing the assistance below the 20% of the batteries' charge, and it significantly reduces the assistance below the 10%. In case you have requested "Discharge the Range Extender Battery First", the main battery kicks in during the assistance bursts (such as Turbo) to protect the Range Extender if the charge of the latter is below 25%. Hard to imagine such a sophistication on the rubbish that requires voltage readouts, don't you think so.

Basically, the main SL battery provides next to none assistance below the 5%, Range Extender always shuts off at 5%.


Or a 5 year old "100% charged" battery holds less wh / has less range than a new one despite being "97% healthy"
5-years? :D See the screen of BLEvo. The new battery had 320 Wh, now it has 302 Wh after 90 recharges. The Range Extender holds 158 Wh after 41 recharges (it should be 160 Wh).
The "Battery Health" is of little meaning. Now tell me how many systems tell you the exact battery charge in Wh at any given moment?
 
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The "RWAL" lit up and stayed lit for two years.
I had a gravel driveway, so I came in fast and hammered the brakes.
The front wheels left skid marks but nothing from the rear.
I suppose they could have been working and prevented a skid, but I don't think that they were working at all. They're supposed to lock up and release ten times a second or something. They should have moved some gravel around.
I just drove accordingly and gave myself extra space.
Thats the way the Ford pickups would do, the bright side was you didn't need to replace rear brakes very often. of course the front ones would wear out rather quickly.
 
View attachment 150281
View attachment 150282
If your Levo SL is still pre-Mastermind, you would make the best investment by spending several AUD for the BLEvo smartphone app.
Could you please tell me what information you are missing here?

It is more than that. The SL system protects the batteries by reducing the assistance below the 20% of the batteries' charge, and it significantly reduces the assistance below the 10%. In case you have requested "Discharge the Range Extender Battery First", the main battery kicks in during the assistance bursts (such as Turbo) to protect the Range Extender if the charge of the latter is below 25%. Hard to imagine such a sophistication on the rubbish that requires voltage readouts, don't you think so.

Basically, the main SL battery provides next to none assistance below the 5%, Range Extender always shuts off at 5%.



5-years? :D See the screen of BLEvo. The new battery had 320 Wh, now it has 302 Wh after 90 recharges. The Range Extender holds 158 Wh after 41 recharges (it should be 160 Wh).
The "Battery Health" is of little meaning. Now tell me how many systems tell you the exact battery charge in Wh at any given moment?

Can you explain how a battery at 100% charge only has 302 wh out of the original 320 wh, yet is 94% healthy?
 
Can you explain how a battery at 100% charge only has 302 wh out of the original 320 wh, yet is 94% healthy?
That's actually normal and accurate as battery capacity is expected to decrease. Phones and laptops read the same over time.
 
Show me a bike with 90nm that's lightweight as well as quiet as a Brose and I'd happily switch. But until then, with the hill I live on, I'll hang onto my heavy bike.

🎶 "I'm all about that torque, that torque; Hills? no trouble!..." 🎶
 

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Can you explain how a battery at 100% charge only has 302 wh out of the original 320 wh, yet is 94% healthy?
That is the point the "Battery health" is of little meaning. Did you notice Mission Control always displayed 100% Battery Health? At least with my e-bikes.
Only the actual charge matters.
Now, can you tell me what you can guess from the voltage provided? Can you interpret that raw data?

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Top class engineering.
 
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Strava plays an enormous social and motivational role in my cycling. I do not ride alone: I have cycling mates of both sexes I often ride together with. I can read their stories. I can compete with some of them and be motivated by them or motivate them.
I get that. Totally fair, if I rode with friends, I might have a similar outlook, and be more into apps.

My situation is totally different. I'm so busy (and disorganized!) that it's really hard for me to get out the door, and I'm staring at the screen more than I would like to be. Any added cognitive payload, particularly involving screen-based thinking, is just an obstacle to be flattened-- it stands between me and the ride.

One of my colleagues and I were talking about riding, skiing, and surfing alone. I had been bugging her for a decade or two to go skiing, I knew she'd like it because she loves biking and was a gymnast. She finally did, but her progress stalled until she started skiing alone-- and once she went solo, she graduated to single black diamonds, I am so proud of her! For her, the social part just added anxiety, the competition kept her from pushing herself.

I'm really about the solo thing-- though I absolutely will stop to talk to another rider, hiker, etc. if I'm at a natural resting spot. And during the worst of the pando, this was critical. I'd run into some young Latin-X guy on a stunt bike or something out by the reservoir, we'd talk bikes for 25 minutes, and that would be the longest conversation I had with anyone in two weeks!
 
I am with you all the way in terms of keeping it simple.

I've never quite understood the Stefan-bashing by some folks here, I do really enjoy his ride reports and other posts. Some of my friends have a tendency to be a bit... er, didactic, and are far more garrulous than he is! Maybe it's because part of my family is Czech? Some ancient relative told me once that if you go back far enough, there's a convergence of two branches-- our branch, with the last three letters of our last name "sky" and the Polish branch, who have the same first five letters, but ending in "ski." Anyway, our older relatives were extremely cantankerous, opinionated, etc., so maybe I'm just used to it or something!

I totally agree with you, Pedal, about Strava-- I've tried to use it again recently, and it's opaque in a way that I actually think is vicious and controlling. I hate software that is deliberately obfuscatory, that requires you to be a savant in their own inane and horribly inefficient UI-- like Microsoft Word, ProTools, or most Electronic Health Records. I am beyond resentful about that-- I don't just want them put out of business, I don't just want my money and time reimbursed, I actually want revenge.

I also think you are on to something in that using apps like Strava absolutely takes your head out of the game. You can't be on both sides of your brain at once except when you're young, and even then, when it's possible, it isn't cognitively healthy. I can't prove that, not a medical opinion of course, just a hunch.

* * * *

I am just so lucky that I found this place, and so grateful... and this forum is that rare example when indulging my OCD, rabbit-holing with search queries, asking endless annoying questions of members here-- when all of that had a fantastic outcome, instead of leaving me miserable and frustrated, which is the usual result of any kind of online shopping.

Because I love my underpowered eMTB (46 pounds after mods). I spent months researching it-- and Motobecane is pretty obscure-- and the few other obscure options in the same price and weight range. Lightweight, efficiently designed, reasonably priced, commercially made bikes with quality components from reliable manufacturers are fiendishly hard to find. If you search this forum for lightweight bikes, you'll find that often means up to 52 pounds that cost over 10 grand. But, mostly thanks to advice from some of the long-timers here, I found a really good fit.

It is perfect for where I ride and what I want to do, which is get a tremendous workout and go places I couldn't go on an acoustic bike. It is light enough to be carried up a short flight of stairs-- albeit somewhat painfully, as I am now a senior citizen-- but heavy enough to be stable (as y'all were noting upthread), and feels like a motorcycle when descending (pavement) at over 40 MPH. (To hell with smoking Vados-- I passed a BMW today, downhill on a canyon road, of course.)

What this means, in an urban area like Los Angeles, is I'm riding in places where very few other people ride. Either their bikes are too heavy to lift over the (few, but annoying) obstacles to get to the trail, or they are probably so light that people wouldn't ride them, say, over paving stones that stick up an inch or two from the trail.

Of course, I know that Pedal could probably build something with greater range, just a bit more power, and enough suspension to manage the hardest rails I ride, which are really not that hard in the larger scheme of things -- intermediate to advanced per eMTB project, but nothing compared to actual 'advanced' trails. And Pedal will be hearing from me in a few years, when I need to mod this bike more heavily or start over from scratch.

View attachment 150248

But for now? Super happy. Nice 12-mile ride today up to the sign and then down to the reservoir, then winding through the canyons home.
Sometime in the late 80s I think, Motobecane - the French bike company and rival to Peugeot, changed and became MBK or at least they did in Ireland & UK. I had one of their early mountain bikes around 1990. It was ok, mid range one, comparable to many others at the time; 26er, steel, 15 or 18 speed triple chainwheel, canti brakes etc etc but was just not that cool to own compared to the emerging US brands like Diamondback and later Specialized everyone was trying to get hold off. Same went for Raleigh or Peugeot mountain bikes - fine but bit boring! Later still and they seemed to disappear in Ireland so I was interested when you started showing your rides on here as I hadn't seen any in decades. It's a nice looking bike. I wonder did they go bust at some point and someone in US bought the name? Or just stopped distributing in Ire & UK.

BTW Is that the Hollywood Hills reservoir behind the bike? I remember walking around that back in 2018 or 19. Was staying in an airbnb off Franklin Ave. at the time. Great spot to have a decent walk. Lot of steep roads in those hills to test your gearing & motor!
 
That's actually normal and accurate as battery capacity is expected to decrease. Phones and laptops read the same over time.
I'm really struggling with all this, because I know Seeker's battery could manage about 45 miles with 4,500 feet of elevation when it had 500 miles on the odometer. But what can it do now, with 1,200 miles on the odometer?

I really want to go to the Verdugos, and do a 40+ mile ride this spring. How can I tell how my battery health has been affected? What's the best metric to use?

If I'm understanding correctly, I might go to the LBS and get my battery health evaluated, find out it's 95% healthy, and figure, okay, I'm good to go for the ride-- but find out the hard way that my battery actually can't go nearly that far.

I know there's probably no simple or definitive answer to this question, but I'd appreciate anyone's ideas.

Of course, I could probably make the bike even lighter-- get it down to 43 pounds or so by replacing the rims, the front fork, the pedals, seat post, etc., but I don't think that would make any difference at all! My own weight-- including water I need to carry-- is a greater factor.
 
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