Moving Away From Heavy E-Bikes

[Catalyzt]

Sometime in the late 80s I think, Motobecane - the French bike company and rival to Peugeot, changed and became MBK or at least they did in Ireland & UK. I had one of their early mountain bikes around 1990. It was ok, mid range one, comparable to many others at the time; 26er, steel, 15 or 18 speed triple chainwheel, canti brakes etc etc but was just not that cool to own compared to the emerging US brands like Diamondback and later Specialized everyone was trying to get hold off. Same went for Raleigh or Peugeot mountain bikes - fine but bit boring! Later still and they seemed to disappear in Ireland so I was interested when you started showing your rides on here as I hadn't seen any in decades. It's a nice looking bike. I wonder did they go bust at some point and someone in US bought the name? Or just stopped distributing in Ire & UK.

BTW Is that the Hollywood Hills reservoir behind the bike? I remember walking around that back in 2018 or 19. Was staying in an airbnb off Franklin Ave. at the time. Great spot to have a decent walk. Lot of steep roads in those hills to test your gearing & motor!

Absolutely right, Motobecane was purchased by Yamaha and became MBK in around 1981.

Seeker (my bike) is an Ultra e-Adventure made by Motobecane USA... and I really don't know much about their history except that they seem to be an entirely different company that bought the trademark. I don't think they're connected to MBK or Yamaha. The frames are made by Kinect in Taiwan, where a lot of decent-to-good frame are made.

The HAL series of Motoboecane USA bikes is sometimes criticized for having an older geometry, but a lot of non-pros who don't ride competitively find it more comfortable, a better all-rounder. The Ultra e-Adventure is an outlier even in Motobecane USA's HAL lineup. There are almost no reviews available about them, and no literature available online-- I was pretty nervous pulling the trigger. I guessed by exhaustive research that in a stock colnfiguration it was just under 50 pounds, and that turned out to be exactly right. I got it down to 46 by adding a CF seat and going tubeless (and .2 of an inch narrower) with the tires.

The strangest thing about them is the E5000 motor, which is normally used on city bikes-- hard tails, often purchased in fleets to be used as rentals in resort towns, etc. (It only has three levels of assistance, ECO, NORM and HIGH) So, on the one hand, I do max out the motor quite a bit, and may be putting an unusual amount of strain on it-- I wonder if it was designed to withstand the punishment I'm giving it. On the other hand, I only do that for short periods of times except on my most aggressive climbs in the Verdugos.

Yes, that is the Hollywood reservoir! One thing that is a lot of fun is to ride to the reservoir from my house, put the bike into "ECO," and just blast around the loop at 18 or 19 MPH, which requires steady, moderate exertion, fast enough to make cornering really fun but not so fast that you frighten pedestrians or risk collision with other cyclists or little kids. Including getting there and back from my house, that's one of the few 30-35 minute rides I can take that provides steady, moderate cardio without the heart-pounding, extreme exertion of 10%+ hills.

I love older Raleighs! I still have my 1973 (ish) Raleigh Competition, Reynolds 532 of course, at my old roommate's apartment in New York. I can still ride it at my age, and I do, but I think I'm going to have to get straight handlebars for it soon. My neck and wrists really do not like the dropped bars!

 

[Gionnirocket]

I'm really struggling with all this, because I know Seeker's battery could manage about 45 miles with 4,500 feet of elevation when it had 500 miles on the odometer. But what can it do now, with 1,200 miles on the odometer?

I really want to go to the Verdugos, and do a 40+ mile ride this spring. How can I tell how my battery health has been affected? What's the best metric to use?

If I'm understanding correctly, I might go to the LBS and get my battery health evaluated, find out it's 95% healthy, and figure, okay, I'm good to go for the ride-- but find out the hard way that my battery actually can't go nearly that far.

I know there's probably no simple or definitive answer to this question, but I'd appreciate anyone's ideas.

Of course, I could probably make the bike even lighter-- get it down to 43 pounds or so by replacing the rims, the front fork, the pedals, seat post, etc., but I don't think that would make any difference at all! My own weight-- including water I need to carry-- is a greater factor.

The decline is gradual so I don't think you need to sweat it too much in that short of a span.
That said batteries can differ even from the same manufacturer and then you need to consider how it was used / cared for or abused. Experience with a particular battery will give you the best insight into its performance. Perhaps take note of frequently repeated rides to estimate any change in performance.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Absolutely right, Motobecane was purchased by Yamaha and became MBK in around 1981.

Seeker (my bike) is an Ultra e-Adventure made by Motobecane USA... and I really don't know much about their history except that they seem to be an entirely different company that bought the trademark. I don't think they're connected to MBK or Yamaha. The frames are made by Kinect in Taiwan, where a lot of decent-to-good frame are made.

The HAL series of Motoboecane USA bikes is sometimes criticized for having an older geometry, but a lot of non-pros who don't ride competitively find it more comfortable, a better all-rounder. The Ultra e-Adventure is an outlier even in Motobecane USA's HAL lineup. There are almost no reviews available about them, and no literature available online-- I was pretty nervous pulling the trigger. I guessed by exhaustive research that in a stock colnfiguration it was just under 50 pounds, and that turned out to be exactly right. I got it down to 46 by adding a CF seat and going tubeless (and .2 of an inch narrower) with the tires.

The strangest thing about them is the E5000 motor, which is normally used on city bikes-- hard tails, often purchased in fleets to be used as rentals in resort towns, etc. (It only has three levels of assistance, ECO, NORM and HIGH) So, on the one hand, I do max out the motor quite a bit, and may be putting an unusual amount of strain on it-- I wonder if it was designed to withstand the punishment I'm giving it. On the other hand, I only do that for short periods of times except on my most aggressive climbs in the Verdugos.

Yes, that is the Hollywood reservoir! One thing that is a lot of fun is to ride to the reservoir from my house, put the bike into "ECO," and just blast around the loop at 18 or 19 MPH, which requires steady, moderate exertion, fast enough to make cornering really fun but not so fast that you frighten pedestrians or risk collision with other cyclists or little kids. Including getting there and back from my house, that's one of the few 30-35 minute rides I can take that provides steady, moderate cardio without the heart-pounding, extreme exertion of 10%+ hills.

I love older Raleighs! I still have my 1973 (ish) Raleigh Competition, Reynolds 532 of course, at my old roommate's apartment in New York. I can still ride it at my age, and I do, but I think I'm going to have to get straight handlebars for it soon. My neck and wrists really do not like the dropped bars!

Fascinating about Motobecane!

If you’ve got a shimano motor then I’m wondering could you at some point swap it out for a more powerful EP8 or 6 motor?! As the frame bolt positions would be the same etc. you might pick up a reconditioned one somewhere. Of course the computer and wiring might not work. Never thought about swapping motors like this.

Also I used road race on a Raleigh Competition when I was a teenager! It was a plain grey paint finish 501 tubing so not flash but I loved that bike. I think back then the mantra was pick Italian, French or English for road racing frames, Reynolds or Columbus steel tubing. But go American for mtbs, after all you guys invented them! The geometry on the US mtbs was always better then European mtbs. And just plain cooler. Whereas I dreamed of owning a Tommasini or Colnago for racing!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

One of my colleagues and I were talking about riding, skiing, and surfing alone. I had been bugging her for a decade or two to go skiing, I knew she'd like it because she loves biking and was a gymnast. She finally did, but her progress stalled until she started skiing alone-- and once she went solo, she graduated to single black diamonds, I am so proud of her! For her, the social part just added anxiety, the competition kept her from pushing herself.

That's really an individual thing.

I do not mind to be riding solo. I just have riding friends. One of my Strava friends has just finished a gravel ultramarathon. 316.5 km (196.7 mi) in 12 hours 30 minutes of a non-stop ride, taking the fifth place in the race. Should it intimidate me? Not. That friendly guy has inspired me with what he once told me: "Stefan, the distance is something that only exists in your mind". I admire such people, and they are champions for me; I don't need to be a champion myself.

On the other hand, there are some riding buddies of mine who are irritating, quarrelsome and all; people who think they are super-cyclists and are always right. What fun it is for me to see the guy hasn't even ridden the half of my YTD distance yet So I just can smile to myself.

Yet, there is a little holiday when I have just returned from a group ride and can see "Stefan M rode with ... and 8 other people"

 

[linklemming]

View attachment 150265
4,989 mi.

Plus a bunch more strava gibberish

So you asked for my stats 'as proof' and have now used those as some sort of comparison. I figured this would happen but decided to play along.

What is you final analysis/conclusion?

Its obvious you validate yourself by your strava stats and comparing yourself to others who 'dont measure up'. You sound very competitive. Perhaps being disabled enforces this.

Im pretty sure you are the only one on EBR who cares about this. Instead of 'spamming' your stats on all these threads, it seems like a good thing to do is start a thread 'dedicated' to posting strava stats. It would fit in perfectly with your typical 'Im the center of the ebiking world' threads. I can start the thread if you would like.

I measure my experience by getting out and riding everyday and enjoying being outside and in nature, not by comparing my strava stats to other people

 

[Stefan Mikes]

What is you final analysis/conclusion?

You must be an alone person.

 

[linklemming]

If you have the ability to interpret it, the raw data is more reliable than a manufacturers figures in %.

I'm sure you've noticed, eg, that the last 8% on the specialized disappears a lot quicker than the first 8% ? Or you can " drain " the battery then switch it off and restart with another 3% .

Or a 5 year old "100% charged" battery holds less wh / has less range than a new one despite being "97% healthy"

I find total wh (per ride) used super useful. This of course only works if you have fully charged the battery and reset the wh used.

Use whatever works for you, voltage is the simplest and most reliable. I hated it initially but understand it now.

 

[linklemming]

You must be an alone person.

How on earth did you come up with that conclusion?

Im not the one validating myself with strava? or with 14k+ posts on EBR (including posting pics of myself everywhere). Stop projecting and get a life man!

 

[PDoz]

You must be an alone person.

I really enjoy solitary rides ,and pay very little attention to distance travelled or time taken . In fact the perfect ride has me giggling within the first few corners and so long as I make it back without injury I'm happy. It's a bonus if the last pedal stroke still has motor support, but the levo sl rides well without the motor so that's not a deal breaker for me.

Is this a character flaw?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I really enjoy solitary rides ,and pay very little attention to distance travelled or time taken . In fact the perfect ride has me giggling within the first few corners and so long as I make it back without injury I'm happy. It's a bonus if the last pedal stroke still has motor support, but the levo sl rides well without the motor so that's not a deal breaker for me.

Is this a character flaw?

Your choice.
My feeling is MTBers are indeed solitary people (but I could be wrong).

Any answer on the voltage interpretation?
Have you tried BLEvo yet?

 

[PDoz]

Your choice.
My feeling is MTBers are indeed solitary people (but I could be wrong).

Any answer on the voltage interpretation?
Have you tried BLEvo yet?

I have a basic understanding of v interpretation, but zero interest in using it myself - it's not relevant to me because mt body runs out of range before the bike.

No, I haven't bothered with blevo, again not relevant. I haven't even connected / updated my mission control this year....possibly baggage because the giant crapp was so dysfunction back in 2018 and I learnt to ride without paying attention to numbers ? Or perhaps I'm enjoying the fuss free levo with just few few bars to remind be the bike could still manage a longer ride?

btw, most mtb riders do group rides - it's partly for safety but also for the whole shared experience thing. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy riding with mates and my kids. But I LOVE the freedom of hitting the trails at my own pace with no commitments or expectations.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I find total wh (per ride) used super useful. This of course only works if you have fully charged the battery and reset the wh used.

You do not need to fully charge the battery to find out the total Wh consumption per a ride. You do not need voltage either.

This is disregarding how much the batteries were charged at the start of the ride, how much degraded they were, and how many were used in any order.

Are you sure you need any voltage information? The blue graph starts at 150% (main battery + extender). You can see at what distance the Range Extenders were replaced. (Ride distance is in km).

The data are from a club ride of 112 km (70 mi) on the Vado SL (I completed the ride last because of a calf cramp). I rode for 128 km (79.6 mi) on that day.

 

[PDoz]

Stefan, why the stava obsession?

I tried signing up once in the hope it'd be a usefull tracking ( safety) tool, but I quickly realised it was useless where I ride - limitted mobile reception.

How does it help you to know the stats? Are you aiming at personal growth? If so, surely any ride where you went out is a bonus? Does the electronic device really give more information re effort than, eg, the muscle fatigue or butt pain?

There are days I struggle to start a ride - after a hard night on call where the caffeine doesn't cut it, or I'm recovering from yet another challenge to my immune system. On those days, an hour of drifting through the trees does far more good than 2 grinding away at the cranks. But I'm not going to beat myself up if I decide to unwind on the motorbike or go for a sail instead. Then there are days I'll manage all 3 and still need professional psychological support.....or just a good hug from she who tolerates my quirks.

Am I missing some part of the human experience? Perhaps my religious ( fanatical?) needs are not being met without the daily strava ritual? Or perhaps my job provides enough cognitive challenge so I don't desire extra ride data?

 

[PDoz]

Ah....much is explained by your nov data.

" Biker" ?

This might be getting lost in translation, but does strava group rides make you into a 1% er?

Disturbing thought derailment for the day.....KOM takes on a whole new meaning if you think rebel motorbike culture. I'm visualizing a lycra clad stavist pumping pedals to meat loaf " get out on the highway" whilst secretly identifying with eddie mercury riding his bicycle

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan, why the stava obsession?

• It is a part of my life history, Memories good & bad. (As you can see, now I recollected the November ride with the calf cramp, completing the ride plan while my faster buddies actually shortened their ride!)
• It is a great bike maintenance tool. If you care about it, you know how many km you have ridden on a given chain, cassette, chainring, brake pads. For any bike you own.
• It is a social medium. Not for the lone wolves for sure.
• It is a great motivational tool.
• It gives you access to the routes already ridden by other members: saving on route planning, warning about weak points of the given route.
• The pictures are placed on the map where they were taken. Identifying Points Of Interest.

How does it help you to know the stats? Are you aiming at personal growth? If so, surely any ride where you went out is a bonus? Does the electronic device really give more information re effort than, eg, the muscle fatigue or butt pain?

If Strava helps me recollecting the calf cramp of 12th of November 2022 then I am sure I would remember the weekend of 25-26th March 2023 very well. Sore butt in the first place! (Taking pictures and posting them helps, too).

I tried signing up once in the hope it'd be a usefull tracking ( safety) tool, but I quickly realised it was useless where I ride - limitted mobile reception.

I use a Wahoo ELEMNT Roam v2 connected to a Specialized e-bike as an e-bike display, navigation, and ride recorder. You do not need any mobile reception for that. The ride data are uploaded to Strava post-ride, at any convenient moment.

Am I missing some part of the human experience? Perhaps my religious ( fanatical?) needs are not being met without the daily strava ritual? Or perhaps my job provides enough cognitive challenge so I don't desire extra ride data?

Certainly, my morning and evening reading about my Strava friends adventures is more enjoyable than watching yet another Netflix series
Besides, there are EBR Forum members who left the Forum but remain my friends on Strava. And yes, they are riding. Or, skiing

" Biker" ?

The cyclist's effort. Your friend Paolo Dozzio from the EMTB Forum is not proficient with English

This might be getting lost in translation, but does strava group rides make you into a 1% er?

I cannot understand?

@PDoz, I will revert with another question:
Why your EMTB forum fascination?

 

[Gionnirocket]

How on earth did you come up with that conclusion?

Im not the one validating myself with strava? or with 14k+ posts on EBR (including posting pics of myself everywhere). Stop projecting and get a life man!

You must be an alone person.

Just in case anyone missed it.
#118

 

[PSm]

Thanks! Oh yeah, I remember fixies — like my Big Wheel trike! (Seemed like a mistake then, but I was only 4. What did I know?)

Of course, to each his own. And my own knees would file divorce papers if I so much as looked at an SS.

Surprising thing is, I’ve found my knees to get stronger and bother me less, after switching to SS

 

[linklemming]

You do not need to fully charge the battery to find out the total Wh consumption per a ride. You do not need voltage either.

Of course you dont stefanie, total wh per ride is not a function of the battery charge but of the amount of energy used during the ride. Thanks for clarifying the obvious

You do need to recharge the battery fully if you want to use the wh used to figure out how much battery you have left for your current ride. Most likey also needed for the battery% you tout as 'essential' (assuming % is based off wh used/wh of battery)

Using % is great if you only have 1 or 2 ebikes with same or similar capacities. Otherwise there is math going on in your head which might as well be voltage

If voltage doesnt work for you, so be it. You are not the authority for everyone on EBR

Personally, for me, wh used is the best metric with volts as a backup.

 

[linklemming]

Just in case anyone missed it.
#118

I am an alone person, its the only thing worth living for

 

[Gionnirocket]

I am an alone person, its the only thing worth living for

I often ride alone which I prefer. Great to be without distraction and noise. Usually when I ride it's to completely forget about my responsibilities for a while and enjoy nature while I get the heart pumping.
I have zero desire to, nor does riding in a group of spandex sausages motivate me. On occasion I do compete, but with myself. I do so by trying to return home with more battery capacity then on previous rides. But there's no reason to document it or publish it as part of some online circle_jerk.
An occasional ride with others is ok as well, especially if we make some stops on a nice day... but it's nothing I prefer to do often.
I've noticed that about 50% of riders do so alone in my area.