I don't feel safe about this....

[Nvreloader]

Well guys, the new fork got here AND,
I am not comfortable about this front axle length fitting in the new suspension fork,
I have the following measurements for the fork and axle on the front hub.

Fork measurements: (Where the axle locks into the fork)
Inside distance/space = 3.390"/86.10mm
Outside distance/space= 4.590"/116.58mm
Fork thickness for axle bearing surface = .310"/per side =.620" total bearing width
Axle slot width = .400"/10.16mm

Formula Hub, 32 spoke hole, 14ga spokes, (Quick release type axle/skewer)
AXLE measurements:
Length = 4.090"/103.88mm
Axle Diameter = .3450"/8.76mm
10- 3/16" ball bearings per side

Axle only has .065"/1.65mm on each axle end for the bearing surface in the new fork slot,
THIS AMOUNT DOES NOT SEEM SAFE TO ME?

Should I get a longer axle length, some where around 4.25/4.50",
so I can have a longer axle bearing length support?

The 1/16" axle length does not seem safe to me, with a QR axle....
There is about 1/4" = .250" of axle bearing length on the OEM fork.
Tia,
Your thoughts and suggestions

 

[Tom@WashDC]

You are right. Go with your gut. Besides you will never "feel" safe riding it, you know that for certain.

 

[PCeBiker]

I noticed that on my e-bike with QR,..

This is just plain stupid.
A hollow axle supported on either end my 2mm of threaded axle,..

Why aren't aluminum frame spec'ed QR axles commonly available by now??
I decided to buy a solid axle to replace the short axle that is spec'ed for metal frames.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOFc7VW

The solid rear axle appears to fit my boost front wheel dropouts with lots of axle length to fully support the axle in the fork dropouts with room for the axle nuts on either end.

I have yet to install them.
I bought a new ebike instead, and put a new front end on it with a bigger better QR axle,..

 

[Nvreloader]

I want to keep this QR on the front axle, as this in my new folding Montague bike, which folds into a nice neat compact package,
for traveling etc.

The problem is I can't find a replace axle with the same spec's as the OEM QR axle just in a longer form, length needs to be around 4.500" / 114.3 mm and 3/8" dia or maybe 9.0 mm dia, with 10 - 3/16" ball bearings.

I have been looking at the rear axle selections, but can't find the threaded length of the QR skewers ends, and can only find the self contained sealed bearing sets, which won't fit my front hub with the 10 loose ball bearings??

I have a lathe and can cut it down with no problems.

Any suggestions for the correct axle lengths/bearings etc.
Thanks guys,

 

[PCeBiker]

All I can think of are these on a solid axle,..

It's sort of quick release ??

Maybe someone can link you to a longer hollow QR axle?
I didn't have much luck finding anything.

 

[indianajo]

Yeah, 1.6 mm is too short. That steel is probably from the land of lead copper tin in the "steel".
I ditched the QR on my bike, Sunday after Derby I saw 3 bikes locked up missing front wheel and seat. Kids & twenties throw them in the weeds or garbage dumpster just to make the owner mad.
I used a 10-32 x 4.5" SS bolt with washers as a front axle for years before I bought a hub motor. I weighed 180 lb then, don't try this if you are bigger or jump curbs or picnic tables. Bolt was from Taiwan. 0.186 diameter mcmaster.com. https://www.mcmaster.com/91772A854 Use locknuts https://www.mcmaster.com/90715A115/
The washers make the fork ride on the washer edges in the recess of the fork, not on the bolt shaft. If I weighed 250 lb I'd use 6 mm, not 1/4-20. 20 TPI makes the shaft too small. 316 SS steel from mcmaster you are getting into mil-spec territory, not the quality of "steel" that comes from bicycleland.
At the same weight I broke an 8 mm shaft in a 6 speed derailleur axle from the land of cheap ****. Riding on road. I think it was shimano, it was a diamondback MTB.
Making the perps use a tool to vandalize your bike is too much trouble for them. Now they just stab the tire with an ice pick. Only costs me 35 minutes and $45. I carry a spare foldup tire and 3 new tubes. I did lose a toolbox & $75 of tools once 4 years ago. Cheaper than liability insurance on a car, plus the crash damage risk.

 

[PCeBiker]

I remember checking McMaster for an axle. I didn't think of regular screws and bolts.
I did find hardened steel threaded rod, but it was something like $30 for each rod.
I realized that axles use a different thread pitch with finer thread and regular nuts don't fit. Something like hardened bolts for a car.

Those regular hollow QR axles just seem so wrong to me.
There's only a few mm of exposed axle used to support all the weight and pressure of the bike, the axles are hollow to begin with, then they cut threads into it. So there's only a couple mm of metal left at such a critical spot, and on a motor shaft they also cut flats into the axle for a torque arm. How much metal is left at that critical spot?
I think that's just plain wrong, even stupid !!??

 

[fooferdoggie]

I

Those regular hollow QR axles just seem so wrong to me.
There's only a few mm of exposed axle used to support all the weight and pressure of the bike, the axles are hollow to begin with, then they cut threads into it. So there's only a couple mm of metal left at such a critical spot.
I think that's just plain wrong, even stupid !!??

yet they work fine when you don't have a 50# rear wheel I have put 50,000 or more miles on them. though I like through axle much better they are just easier to deal with.

 

[indianajo]

IThose regular hollow QR axles just seem so wrong to me.
There's only a few mm of exposed axle used to support all the weight and pressure of the bike, the axles are hollow to begin with, then they cut threads into it. So there's only a couple mm of metal left at such a critical spot.
I think that's just plain wrong, even stupid !!??

If the axle is from DTswiss, I would trust it. Those cost $$$. The ones that come from counterfeitland, depends on what the sweeper poured in the "steel" melt that day.

 

[PCeBiker]

yet they work fine when you don't have a 50# rear wheel I have put 50,000 or more miles on them. though I like through axle much better they are just easier to deal with.

It just amazes me that they work at all on any bike.
My friend in Gr. 7 got a 10-speed for his birthday with QR axles. The rear axle broke within a week. (We were of course bombing through forest trails on our 10-speeds like kids will do.)
His parents were Pissed!! It cost another $30-$40 to replace the axle.

I think QR is just stupid. You're still going to need tools to get your wheel off (especially in those days) and especially the rear wheel.
My friend and I didn't care if we we needed a wrench to get the wheel off. We just wanted something that wouldn't break when we got airborne on our 10-speeds.

My dirt bike didn't have QR axles.
It came with a single multi-tool/wrench that was stored on the bike.
That's a way better way to deal with axles instead of drilling a hole through the middle of the axle to install a QR rod.

My car came with a lug wrench instead of drilling holes through the wheel studs to install QR lug nuts.

 

[Chargeride]

I guess theres some complicated forces at play, only an engineer could clear it up, but Ive used QR on a bbshd with no issues at all.
If its tight, I presume the friction is absorbing the load, not passing it to the axle against the dropout.

Are you seeing damage to the dropout or axle thread?

 

[Chargeride]

Yeah, 1.6 mm is too short. That steel is probably from the land of lead copper tin in the "steel".
I ditched the QR on my bike, Sunday after Derby I saw 3 bikes locked up missing front wheel and seat. Kids & twenties throw them in the weeds or garbage dumpster just to make the owner mad.
I used a 10-32 x 4.5" SS bolt with washers as a front axle for years before I bought a hub motor. I weighed 180 lb then, don't try this if you are bigger or jump curbs or picnic tables. Bolt was from Taiwan. 0.186 diameter mcmaster.com. https://www.mcmaster.com/91772A854 Use locknuts https://www.mcmaster.com/90715A115/
The washers make the fork ride on the washer edges in the recess of the fork, not on the bolt shaft. If I weighed 250 lb I'd use 6 mm, not 1/4-20. 20 TPI makes the shaft too small. 316 SS steel from mcmaster you are getting into mil-spec territory, not the quality of "steel" that comes from bicycleland.
At the same weight I broke an 8 mm shaft in a 6 speed derailleur axle from the land of cheap ****. Riding on road. I think it was shimano, it was a diamondback MTB.
Making the perps use a tool to vandalize your bike is too much trouble for them. Now they just stab the tire with an ice pick. Only costs me 35 minutes and $45. I carry a spare foldup tire and 3 new tubes. I did lose a toolbox & $75 of tools once 4 years ago. Cheaper than liability insurance on a car, plus the crash damage risk.

Where do you live?
Mega city one?

 

[kevinmccune]

we do not know the "assay" of chinesuem steel,it more than likely contains a bit of copper( due to car bodies) probably very little pb(because it vaporizes ar such a low point),copper bearing steel is a thing,used in culvert pipes etc,back in the day it was used in the reactor vessels in nuclear plants( caused a bit of trouble there) each steel mill
pour" should be assayed and the proper amount of virgin iron etc to adjust the final product.

 

[PCeBiker]

Are you seeing damage to the dropout or axle thread?

I am,..

The hardened steel axle with the flats on both sides makes an AWESOME Tap with a dozen cutting edges to cut into the aluminum frame, AND The hardened built in torque arm.

My wheel gets jammed into the dropouts and I have to rotate the axle to "unlock" it from the "threads" that it's cutting into the dropout and the integrated torque arm to get the wheel removed.
I couldn't figure out why I couldn't get my rear hub motor out of the dropouts.

I'm saying it again.
It's a stupid and unsafe design.

 

[gromike]

Maybe so, but they already have gone to an upgrade, the thru-axle.

 

[Chargeride]

Do they make QR with shoulders to take up the space?
If you want some pure sacrilige, I have converted thru axle to QR with these little insert, thats pulled out a bit, but it extends right across the dropout, the fit is very secure, even untightened.

 

[Nvreloader]

Guys Thanks
I have some questions,
I have 10- 3/16" dia ball bearings on each end of the axle + bearing shields etc, with a axle dia of .345".

I have found this solid axle with these spec's:

Bicycle Solid Axle Front And Rear Hub Bead Racks Bicycle Parts High Quality New | eBay

Bike Bicycle Axles Rear Front Axle Set 108mm 145mm With 1/4，3/16 Balls. 1 x Rear Hub Axle. 1 x Front Hub Axle. Useful bike accessory for you. Made of high quality material, and practical to use. Color: Black (As Pictures Show).

www.ebay.com

There is 2 different caged bearings 1/4" and 3/16" dia balls, 7 bearing count.
BUT the count number of balls is NOT the same as the OEM count of 10 - 3/16" LOOSE bearings.

Will this (above) solid axle fit the cone bearing cups of the OEM hub?

I can fit a 9mm dia axle thru my OEM hub, and with using the longer REAR axle length, I think I'll have enough room to fit it in the new fork securely.
I do not have a good understanding/knowledge of this bike axle/bearing stuff, yet.
Tia

 

[PCeBiker]

Do they make QR with shoulders to take up the space?

That's Better !!!
It's not just a spacer, it supports the whole wheel.

My front wheel is supported by 5 or 6mm of a hollow axle with threads cut into it.
If a coarser thread was used, the threads would probably cut right through the "pipe"?

 

[PCeBiker]

Guys Thanks
I have some questions,
I have 10- 3/16" dia ball bearings on each end of the axle + bearing shields etc, with a axle dia of .345".

I have found this solid axle with these spec's:

Bicycle Solid Axle Front And Rear Hub Bead Racks Bicycle Parts High Quality New | eBay

Bike Bicycle Axles Rear Front Axle Set 108mm 145mm With 1/4，3/16 Balls. 1 x Rear Hub Axle. 1 x Front Hub Axle. Useful bike accessory for you. Made of high quality material, and practical to use. Color: Black (As Pictures Show).

www.ebay.com

That looks good to me.
They are not solid axles though so you get to use your QR rod through it.

If you use the rear axle, you can cut it to length to get the maximum dropout support.

There is 2 different caged bearings 1/4" and 3/16" dia balls, 7 bearing count.
BUT the count number of balls is NOT the same as the OEM count of 10 - 3/16" LOOSE bearings.

That's just because they're in a cage. You can fit more in without a cage.

Will this (above) solid axle fit the cone bearing cups of the OEM hub?

Get the whole kit and you can put the smaller front bearings and cones on the longer rear axle.

I can fit a 9mm dia axle thru my OEM hub, and with using the longer REAR axle length, I think I'll have enough room to fit it in the new fork securely.

You're QR skewer should fit inside the new axle.
If it doesn't fit, you can leave the axle longer and use axle bolts or buy a skewer that fits. (You should be fine, they have quite a bit of wiggle room. )

I do not have a good understanding/knowledge of this bike axle/bearing stuff, yet.
Tia

Being as they are cup and cone bearings, you'll need to adjust them manually and use the locknuts and your thin wrenches.

I remember having the bearings set up perfectly, then when I installed the wheel and tightened up the axle nuts, the bearings started to bind.

It's a bit of trial and error to get it right.

 

[PCeBiker]

Maybe someone can link you to a longer hollow QR axle?
I didn't have much luck finding anything.

I do remember seeing those now.
I was looking for a completely solid axle like from the olden days.

I figure that even if a completely solid axle has copper, lead, tin, glass, and maybe the burnt remains of some rodents in the mix from the blast furnace, it's still gonna be stronger than a cleanly smelted hollow axle except maybe Sapian, but that might be $100 axle?

You should be fine with those hollow axles, just getting a full thread count across your dropout slots makes a HUGE Difference.

Remember that the axle needs to be a smidgen shorter than the fork dropout space so that the skewer tightens up on the fork without touching the axle.

If the skewer hits the axle when you tighten it, the wheel won't be snug on the forks.