Generic MD 1000 and HD 750 ebike model discussion

[Nexus]

I have been eyeing ebikes for a while and test drove a few the MD 1000 with the belt drive that the one I was interested in but

there wasn't that many of them out there yet to make that decision I was in no hurry I've been wanting to see what was going to happen

with the SA IGH. I know that there testing the Rohloff 14 speed now as maybe replacement. I asked Kyle on his live feed

yesterday and he also confirmed it to and like it was said here. He has pictures but no prototype to test but hopeful for the future.

I'm sure this will drive the cost up considerably. But if the belt drive can be fixed to where it doesn't self-destruct it would be worth it.

From what I've read here on this site and many others who have ridden this bike really do enjoy it.



The bike I would like to have. If I could afford it is 2021 Riese & Muller Homage- full suspension- Rohloff 14-twin batteries, etc.

but I don't have $12,000 plus to put into Ebike.

 

[carp]

That Beast axle spec is correct and will work for the MD 1000 as well but you really don't need it unless you want a backup. Biktrix has excellent customer service and they recommended the Robert Axle Project for a thru axle. Robert Axel Project has some nice products.

Ordered the Robert Axle Project item that allows me to hook up the quiet kat trailer to my bike, huge bonus!! I am hoping the rear hub on the new setup will hold up to the torque, the QUANDO hub isnt exactly a name brand high quality hub haha.

 

[RMK!]

Ordered the Robert Axle Project item that allows me to hook up the quiet kat trailer to my bike, huge bonus!! I am hoping the rear hub on the new setup will hold up to the torque, the QUANDO hub isnt exactly a name brand high quality hub haha.

That's a good choice for the Axel. Re the rear hub, I believe it is a Quanta and both Leili and Biktrix are using it. A name brand doesn't guarantee much more than higher cost on a simple thing like a hub. With a trailer, you are putting more strain on the drive system so the beefier the better.

 

[RMK!]

I have been eyeing ebikes for a while and test drove a few the MD 1000 with the belt drive that the one I was interested in but

there wasn't that many of them out there yet to make that decision I was in no hurry I've been wanting to see what was going to happen

with the SA IGH. I know that there testing the Rohloff 14 speed now as maybe replacement. I asked Kyle on his live feed

yesterday and he also confirmed it to and like it was said here. He has pictures but no prototype to test but hopeful for the future.

I'm sure this will drive the cost up considerably. But if the belt drive can be fixed to where it doesn't self-destruct it would be worth it.

From what I've read here on this site and many others who have ridden this bike really do enjoy it.



The bike I would like to have. If I could afford it is 2021 Riese & Muller Homage- full suspension- Rohloff 14-twin batteries, etc.

but I don't have $12,000 plus to put into Ebike.

If it ends up being the Rohloff 14 speed as the new IGH on the MD 1000 I will be tempted to make the move. Honestly, I'd rather have the MD 1000 over any other ebike I've seen including the high priced models like R&M. At least with R&M you are getting a german hand built ebike backed by a strong dealer network and good warranty and that almost justifies the high price.

Being a tall fella, the large frame size of the MD 1000 is a very good fit for me and 2+ hour 60 mile rides are doable especially since I have 4 batteries. As Kyle at Bolton noted in his original video last spring, the frame geometry for the Bikonit bikes is something special. It handles like a good mountain bike and totally belies it's heavy weight. Now that I have a more reliable drivetrain, it really is a bike you can ride just about anywhere. While it's not perfect, it is really good and for the factory direct price, it is an incredible value IMHO.

 

[RMK!]

My project is finally in order now. Leili sent me free parts of the chain drive for warranty. I had to threaten to cancel the trade in Alibaba and launched a process to cancel the trade. This helped that I got the parts for free. Admittedly, the parts were used and the black wheel rear tire mounts were silver in color. I bought a new sprocket https://christinibicycles.com/buy/buy-parts/ in front of me and installed a smaller front sprocket. I had to change the hub and also coat the rim because Leili refused to deliver the conical rim. Now the bike works great. I also have a Bafang BBSHD 1000 engine on my other bike and it is much quieter. The G510 engine has a torque sensor so it is much more comfortable in the terrain. The single speed belt drive is still a project but I think it will be completed in the next few weeks.
View attachment 85557View attachment 85558

I'll be interested in your single speed belt drive if and when you make it work. I think that may be a good option for flat road commuter type riding but I'm afraid the 4.8" tires are useless with a single gear commuter and the Bafang Ultra motor might have serious over heating issues. I have over heated my motor by asking it to provide single high gear hill climbing on a warm but not hot day. I was thinking 3 gears as a minimum might work for many use applications but this was originally built as a fat tire hunting adventure bike and so more gearing is necessary to protect that motor.

The Sturmey Archer IGH was clearly a poor choice for this ebike but If they are seriously pursuing the Rohloff 14, that maybe the IGH equipped ebike we were all wanting ...

 

[carp]

I'll be interested in your single speed belt drive if and when you make it work. I think that may be a good option for flat road commuter type riding but I'm afraid the 4.8" tires are useless with a single gear commuter and the Bafang Ultra motor might have serious over heating issues. I have over heated my motor by asking it to provide single high gear hill climbing on a warn but not hot day. I was thinking 3 gears as a minimum might work for many use applications but this was originally built as a fat tire hunting adventure bike and so more gearing is necessary to protect that motor.

The Sturmey Archer IGH was clearly a poor IGH choice for this ebike but If they are seriously pursuing the Rohloff 14, that maybe the IGH equipped ebike we were all wanting ...

Looked into the Kindernay and Rohloff as an option to fix my SA IGH... at $1400 roughly for these, I may be just in for the cassettes and chains from here on out haha. I can buy a LOT of consumable parts for that potential uptick in price tag...

 

[RMK!]

Looked into the Kindernay and Rohloff as an option to fix my SA IGH... at $1400 roughly for these, I may be just in for the cassettes and chains from here on out haha. I can buy a LOT of consumable parts for that potential uptick in price tag...

I understand and agree. Although I've only ridden 20 miles on the SRAM chain cassette, I didn't realize how stressful (annoying) riding with the quickly deteriorating SA IGH was for me. It is a huge weight off my shoulders to have a functional gear changing system and I'm pissed at myself for making that bad original buy decision. That said, it's all good now and many lessons were learned which makes me a slightly better informed consumer ...

Update: took a 35 mile ride today and the bike performed perfectly. I think the SRAM chain drive is actually quieter than the SA IGH Belt drive because the Bafang Ultra noise is more noticeable now than it was with the SA IGH. In any case, thus far I'm very happy with the change from belt to chain.

 

[RC001]

I understand and agree. Although I've only ridden 20 miles on the SRAM chain cassette, I didn't realize how stressful (annoying) riding with the quickly deteriorating SA IGH was for me. It is a huge weight off my shoulders to have a functional gear changing system and I'm pissed at myself for making that bad original buy decision. That said, it's all good now and many lessons were learned which makes me a slightly better informed consumer ...

Update: took a 35 mile ride today and the bike performed perfectly. I think the SRAM chain drive is actually quieter than the SA IGH Belt drive because the Bafang Ultra seems to be making more noise. In any case, I'm very happy with the change from belt to chain.

Can I ask, what is the flat cost of the bike when you first purchased it. I see two prices listed on the site i.e $2,350. and $2,620. Very confusing.

 

[RMK!]

Can I ask, what is the flat cost of the bike when you first purchased it. I see two prices listed on the site i.e $2,350. and $2,620. Very confusing.

The exact price depends upon accessories (light, racks, fenders) plus in my case $550 shipping to USA. All in was $3100.

 

[RC001]

The exact price depends upon accessories (light, racks, fenders) plus in my case $550 shipping to USA. All in was $3100.

Thanks, but I was referring to the price on the site. There are two prices shown and when I asked about the lower they quoted the higher. Question is then, what is the starting price?

 

[RMK!]

Thanks, but I was referring to the price on the site. There are two prices shown and when I asked about the lower they quoted the higher. Question is then, what is the starting price?

I have no special insider knowledge about the pricing and I think of the Alibaba listing like a print ad price for a car. You can ask Leili or whomever you are dealing with but I'm not sure you will get an answer that satisfies you. This is factory direct and the price can be somewhat fluid. It's not like Bolton or Biktrix who have published prices for their products. You only get a firm quote when you are ready to buy and you ask for an Alibaba price quote with your color choice, option preferences and shipping to your door included.

 

[RMK!]

Well, the Rohloff 14 Speed hub is the new IGH for the MD 1000. It seems the price will be approximately $2K USD higher than the SA IGH equipped model and actual delivery will be several (4-5) months away. I have been considering this for the last couple of days and if I was ordering for the first time, I would likely go in that direction. But after another 30 mile ride on my 9 speed SRAM swapped out MD 1000, I can't rationalize getting a second MD 1000 and paying that premium for the IGH.

From the photos, it seems that by simply changing out the rear billet aluminum brackets, the Rohloff could be a fairly simple swap out and I have asked Yeili about that possibility. You would still need to purchase a Rohloff so that means another +/- $2K spend anyway you slice it. While I'm still very drawn to the IGH concept, a standard chain cassette has it's advantages. Since I have had to be so careful with the SA IGH trying to keep it alive, I have developed some good habits in not shifting under load which is the killer for any bike drive train but is especially damaging with a powerful ebike.

Here are some photos of a prototype Rohloff equipped MD 1000. I'm told the production units will include painting the aluminum brackets but it is helpful to have them stand out in these photos to understand the differences in the build. To me, it appears it is the exact same frame with only the aluminum brackets changed to accommodate the Rohloff. The photos reveal this is a modified existing MD 1000 with the SA IGH removed. It seems even the Bafang front and rear belt cogs and Gates belt are the same. Bodes well for an easy swap out.

 

[Nexus]

Well, the Rohloff 14 Speed hub is the new IGH for the MD 1000. It seems the price will be approximately $2K USD higher than the SA IGH equipped model and actual delivery will be several (4-5) months away. I have been considering this for the last couple of days and if I was ordering for the first time, I would likely go in that direction. But after another 30 mile ride on my 9 speed SRAM swapped out MD 1000, I can't rationalize getting a second MD 1000 and paying that premium for the IGH.

From the photos, it seems that by simply changing out the rear billet aluminum brackets, the Rohloff could be a fairly simple swap out and I have asked Yeili about that possibility. You would still need to purchase a Rohloff so that means another +/- $2K spend anyway you slice it. While I'm still very drawn to the IGH concept, a standard chain cassette has it's advantages. Since I have had to be so careful with the SA IGH trying to keep it alive, I have developed some good habits in not shifting under load which is the killer for any bike drive train but is especially damaging with a powerful ebike.

Here are some photos of a prototype Rohloff equipped MD 1000. I'm told the production units will include painting the aluminum brackets but it is helpful to have them stand out in these photos to understand the differences in the build. To me, it appears it is the exact same frame with only the aluminum brackets changed to accommodate the Rohloff.

Thank you for the photos I have been waiting to see if this was going to come to pass.
I think this would be a good combination but an expensive one.
Do you mind sharing your contact information with this place.

 

[RMK!]

Thank you for the photos I have been waiting to see if this was going to come to pass.
I think this would be a good combination but an expensive one.
Do you mind sharing your contact information with this place.

I do all of my China Ebike communications via Alibaba as that has a modicum of security protection. The company name is Changzhou Leili Vehicle Parts Co., Ltd.. Any of their reps can assist you with pricing etc.

As for expensive, I'm pretty confident in saying this will be the least expensive Rohloff 14 Speedhub equipped commercial ebike on the planet. Despite one frame related issue, the basic frame and other componentry for these bikes are good to very good. The Achilles Heel of the MD 1000 has been the Sturmey Archer IGH. Either the SRAM 9 speed chain cassette version at slightly over $3k, or the Rohloff 14 speed IGH at slightly over $5K are serious value buys in this crazy pandemic ebike market. IMHO!

 

[Nexus]

I do all of my China Ebike communications via Alibaba as that has a modicum of security protection. The company name is Changzhou Leili Vehicle Parts Co., Ltd.. Any of their reps can assist you with pricing etc.

As for expensive, I'm pretty confident is saying this will be the least expensive Rohloff 14 Speedhub equipped commercial ebike on the planet. Despite one frame related issue, the basic frame and other componentry for these bikes are good to very good. The Achilles Heel of the MD 1000 has been the Sturmey Archer IGH. Either the SRAM 9 speed chain cassette version at slightly over $3k, or the Rohloff 14 speed IGH at slightly over $5K are serious value buys in this crazy pandemic ebike market. IMHO!

This is also the same place I've been dealing with and I do appreciate you putting this out there.
Thank you for finding the bugs in the prototype gear drive.
I know this is the one I'm going to get by Christmas if I ordered today

 

[Vewlix]

Would it be worth the upgrade to the Rohloff E14 with the electrical gear changing over the manual version?

 

[RMK!]

Would it be worth the upgrade to the Rohloff E14 with the electrical gear changing over the manual version?

AFAIK, the E14 only works with a Bosch mid-drive motor. I think the mechanical Rohloff 14 will work fine and most of the long term reliability reports are for the non-electric version.

 

[Nexus]

AFAIK, the E14 only works with a Bosch mid-drive motor. I think the mechanical Rohloff 14 will work fine and most of the long term reliability reports are for the non-electric version.

RMK! dealing with Changzhou Leili Vehicle Parts Co., Ltd.. Is somewhat a little frustrating and maybe not worth the effort for the money.
Been in contact with them several times my representative is very cryptic on answers which makes it somewhat irritating.
There prototype with this Rohloff 14 is apparently a one off right now. When asked about availability. There is no response.
Asked about cost for this with this on it on MD 1000 $4550.00 before shipping or any other extra items seems a little high.
If you have a better representative to correspond with could you do a little fishing for me. If you don't mind see what the deal is.

 

[RMK!]

RMK! dealing with Changzhou Leili Vehicle Parts Co., Ltd.. Is somewhat a little frustrating and maybe not worth the effort for the money.
Been in contact with them several times my representative is very cryptic on answers which makes it somewhat irritating.
There prototype with this Rohloff 14 is apparently a one off right now. When asked about availability. There is no response.
Asked about cost for this with this on it on MD 1000 $4550.00 before shipping or any other extra items seems a little high.
If you have a better representative to correspond with could you do a little fishing for me. If you don't mind see what the deal is.

I'm sure they find dealing with non-Chinese just as frustrating. They are being cryptic because the MD 1000 with Rohloff 14 IGH isn't a real product yet and I was kind of reluctant to post photos due to just this type of situation.

My interest in this was to replace my Sturmey Archer RX-RK5 IGH which when paired with the right bicycle, might be perfectly serviceable but in fact it is a very poor match for the MD 1000. Needing an immediate fix for that serious problem, I chose the SRAM drivetrain option and it has worked out great. I just had correspondence with Kyle at Bolton and he has been riding his Warthog MD 750 with the SRAM gear set and he is very impressed with the performance. That matches my experience with the SRAM on my generic MD 1000 (same motor).

The price Leili decides to charge for a Rohloff 14 equipped model MD 1000 is based on more than just the sum of it's parts. People who want a "deal" might be unwilling to pay the price so it might never come to be as a product they offer via a direct sales channel (e.g. 1 bike orders). I suppose it is good a good thing if they feel many people will want the MD 1000 with Rohloff but if people balk at the price that sends another message. I can say that if Bolton/Bikonit or Biktrix offer a Rohloff equipped MD 1000 type ebike, it will cost a good deal more than the numbers being thrown around here.

 

[Terry777]

After reading back the posts I’ve missed I see some of you have done the conversion to cassette. How are they going? I’m gonna do mine.

I got the IGH back together but just don’t trust it. I’m checking it every bump now! The wheel splitting is too much for even my nerves! Bum clenching stuff!!