Full suspension with Belt drive - why ?

[smorgasbord]

Here are my set of custom modes, I chose a higher assist initially to help getting up to speed and then drop down to conserve electrons.

View attachment 50874

That's really cool. Is the "Support level" a torque multiplier or a power multiplier? What kinds of controls do you have on the graph? Can you insert points? Can you do an Adobe Illustrator-like thing to have the points not be abrupt transitions but smooth curve fits?

Have you thought about making one of the modes a completely different type of profile? You have Mode 4 on high all the time, the other modes start high and then decrease, with 1 and 3 leveling off around 18-20kph, and mode 2 almost constantly declining. Would you even have a mode like this:

The idea, which I'd have to noodle on, is to have good power to get going, then drop down for middle speeds, then increase power to make it easier to get to top speed. Yeah, this "wastes" battery, but for some rides it'd be a blast.

You could also have a hill-climb mode with high power at low bike speeds, then low power for middle to fast speeds. This way you get up the hills, but conserve power on the flats/downhills.

I would love to have something like this for my Bafang Ultra. Maybe that's what the Torque page is trying to do, but again, it's one setting for all PAS levels. The PAS level adjustment simply sets the top power output. By default my bike was:

Level1: 30% current limit
Level2: 35% current limit
Level3: 40% current limit
Level4: 45% current limit
Level5: 55% current limit

But I'm much happier on road with:
Level1: 11% current limit
Level2: 20% current limit
Level3: 31% current limit
Level4: 41% current limit
Level5: 52% current limit

My last ride, 42 miles with 4000' of elevation gain, I never went above Level3. Had I ventured off road, I'd be at higher assists but wouldn't have the mapping that you get with the Nylon and plug-in.

 

[FlatSix911]

I can do pretty much everything that RM is doing, in Titanium. I have a current customer who will be trying out this solution on their bike soon.
The only limitations is that as of right now the solution cant support a motor over 750W (Torque limited to 110-120Nm).

Your product line is really unique and uses one of my favorite materials for bike frames.

I would recommend staying with Titanium... an excellent material for high strength, shock absorption, and light weight.

 

[smorgasbord]

I will be selling both the Ti and Al versions of the UC Pro. Everyone has more options to choose from.

That's cool. Note that a benefit not mentioned here is that aluminum frames vibrate like crazy and titanium is more dampened. Carbon is not just lighter, it's even more dampened.

They make tuning forks out of aluminum. Enough said on vibrations.

 

[Ebiker33]

 

[SteveBorough]

I just spent the 1st weekend with my Riese & Muller Superdelite GT Rohloff HS and love it. I'm a fit 200lbs and have trouble getting the bike up to 28mph. Running through all gears on flat pavement, I can get to 20 - 21 mph with ease however, 25 - 28 seems to be difficult to impossible without really working hard. I took it back to the store and wasn't really given an answer/solution. Wondering if anyone else is experiencing this with a similar config. My understanding is HS (even with Rohloff) should get me to 28mph with moderate effort and you'd have to work to go any faster

 

[Ebiker33]

I just spent the 1st weekend with my Riese & Muller Superdelite GT Rohloff HS and love it. I'm a fit 200lbs and have trouble getting the bike up to 28mph. Running through all gears on flat pavement, I can get to 20 - 21 mph with ease however, 25 - 28 seems to be difficult to impossible without really working hard. I took it back to the store and wasn't really given an answer/solution. Wondering if anyone else is experiencing this with a similar config. My understanding is HS (even with Rohloff) should get me to 28mph with moderate effort and you'd have to work to go any faster

I think this is the wrong thread for this but I am going to answer it anyways, you might not like the answers. First off that is an awesome bike.

1) Most manufactures are building their bikes for 20mph/32kmh as the maximum optimum speed, even if they rate them for 28 mph, it's because of the laws.
2) That bike has a Bosch motor rated at only 75 nm you are 200 lbs the bike is 63 pounds that 75 nm has to push 263 pounds, as this is a Watt Wagon forum this is a plug for their ultra 160 nm motor they have on their bikes.
which will go 28 mph no problem at all.

The R & M is a really great bike but that motor is a little light on the power side, even with limits the Watt Wagon can full throttle at 90 nm, not enough start peddling and enjoy 160nm of full torque.
Their new motor which Europe already had will be the best in the world, I see nothing on the market that can touch it right now.
ARCHON X1

I have limited my bike to 20mph, one because it's the law where I live, secondly I don't really desire to go faster, if I do I will buy an electric motorcycle fully designed for those higher speeds.
For me I would be fully satisfied with the speed of the R & M on the flats, where it would fail me is 15% grade hills, because I know it would struggle to do the 20mph up that. I am also 200 lbs and my Sonders with similar torque could only go 8 mph up 13% grade hills, it was a real struggle, I can't even imagine without power, but my bike also weighs 75lbs.

 

[coldriderwi]

My understanding is HS (even with Rohloff) should get me to 28mph with moderate effort and you'd have to work to go any faster

My experience with Bosch and Brose motors have been the same as yours. Low 20s is pretty easy. Maintaining 28 is hard work and couldn't be done indefinitely. This was on Trek and Specialized bikes, but since Bosch is a closed system you are going to have a very similar experience on any bike with a Bosch motor.

 

[SteveBorough]

Then what did I pay $500 extra for?! Is this a racket?

 

[coldriderwi]

See if you can return it and get a watt wagon instead...

 

[coldriderwi]

But really you want to ask your questions here

Riese & Müller Forum

Discuss the brand, its products and upcoming models.

electricbikereview.com

 

[byunbee]

See if you can return it and get a watt wagon instead...

You'll get better performance with top quality components and thousands dollars cheaper with the new Wattwagons superbike. At least check it out in the links below.

Superbike Series 2 pricing is on. Get in on an opportunity to unlock incredible free upgrades - up to 2300W ! Read about the rewards here. Available for pre-order at an incredible price. Specs and link to purchase here.

 

[TomD]

Then what did I pay $500 extra for?! Is this a racket?

I'm not sure you paid an extra $500 for nothing. I assume this is the upcharge for the 28mph speed motor? A tuning dongle would cost you around $200 and may void your warranty, so if you don't want the motor cutting out at 20mph it is what it is. I'd say the ~$10K cost of the bike is more of a racket than the extra $500.

Not sure a WW is your answer either. There are custom WW builds with FS but the rear rack is not sprung and you lose belt drive. If you want FS with belt drive and sprung rack there is nothing (yet) like the Riese & Muller Superdelite GT Rohloff HS, so I woud say it depends on what's important to you.

Even if you could go 28mph with ease do you really want to be draining your battery? I put a dongle on my bike to exceed 20mph and while it's nice to have, I realized it's more of a battery suck than anything to be going that fast.

 

[webcurl]

R&M explain it here: https://www.r-m.de/en-au/technology/control-technology/
My personal interest in their SuperDelite Rohloff and that interest is still present is their combination of the Gates (low maintenance), Rohloff (i love them, but i would pay extra to convert this to manual shift) and importantly for me the suspended rear rack.
The idea of being able to put 20kg of gear on a suspended rear rack in these kinds of conditions would be great:

Corrugated Roads and Vehicle Damage.

The only way to soften the vibrations caused by corrugated roads is to lower the tire pressures and find the right speed to match. Sometimes going...

www.4-wheeling-in-western-australia.com

There are plenty of FS ebikes around without suspended racks.
For me it's about multi-terrain touring, strong frame (don't care if it's Titanium, Aluminium or Steel, even if steel is a few kg heavier) with the ability to carry lot's of weight, low maintenance, easier solar charging compatibility, large capacity batteries & efficiency of motor/gears.
I'd be happy with a Bafang with reduced torque & top speed.

 

[SteveBorough]

I'm not sure you paid an extra $500 for nothing. I assume this is the upcharge for the 28mph speed motor? A tuning dongle would cost you around $200 and may void your warranty, so if you don't want the motor cutting out at 20mph it is what it is. I'd say the ~$10K cost of the bike is more of a racket than the extra $500.

Not sure a WW is your answer either. There are custom WW builds with FS but the rear rack is not sprung and you lose belt drive. If you want FS with belt drive and sprung rack there is nothing (yet) like the Riese & Muller Superdelite GT Rohloff HS, so I woud say it depends on what's important to you.

Even if you could go 28mph with ease do you really want to be draining your battery? I put a dongle on my bike to exceed 20mph and while it's nice to have, I realized it's more of a battery suck than anything to be going that fast.

Is it the same motor with different power curves? I'm questioning whether or not the HS curve is any different above 20mph, doesnt seem so, therefore a waste of money perhaps. Will ask to ride a 20mph limited R&M bike and see if its worth it

 

[TomD]

No idea. The Bosch system doesn't interest me as I want more power than 250W nominal / 500W peak on a bike that costs a small fortune or weighs much more than 50 pounds. You might want to touch base with @Ravi Kempaiah. He is looking to offer a relatively lightweight FS build with sprung rack and Bosch speed motor in the $3K range. He might be able to provide more informed insights on the power curve.

Rohloff Speed hubs on E-bikes (Mechanical and E-14) - Discussion

This guy does put his bikes through very punishing conditions and if he can vouch for a product, that counts for something. It is not an e-bike, is it.

electricbikereview.com

 

[MaTar9000]

I would buy a full suspension titanium frame Cross Tour if you ever make one, that would be the klondike bike for me personally ! Good for commuting, trails, summer, winter, low maintenance, maximum comfort, I would drop my car for it

I would take it with fenders and a rear rack since I want to use it mostly as a commuter bike.

 

[byunbee]

I would buy a full suspension titanium frame Cross Tour if you ever make one, that would be the klondike bike for me personally ! Good for commuting, trails, summer, winter, low maintenance, maximum comfort, I would drop my car for it

I would take it with fenders and a rear rack since I want to use it mostly as a commuter bike.

A few of us that's buying the new Wattwagons Superbike already dropped our cars for it.

 

[MaTar9000]

A few of us that's buying the new WAttwagons Superbike already dropped our cars for it.

Haha, I understand why, I've been looking at it as well and would love to have it, but since it doesn't come with fat tires I decided not to go for it since winter represent a big part of the year here in Quebec city I'll wait for a FS CrossTour, then I'll be all in!

 

[byunbee]

Haha, I understand why, I've been looking at it as well and would love to have it, but since it doesn't come with fat tires I decided not to go for it since winter represent a big part of the year here in Quebec city I'll wait for a FS CrossTour, then I'll be all in!

If you need a fat tire bike, I doubt you need rear suspension since the fat tires at lower psi would absorb most of the bumps. Just buy it already!

 

[MaTar9000]

If you need a fat tire bike, I doubt you need rear suspension since the fat tires at lower psi would absorb most of the bumps. Just buy it already!

True, but I prefer to run it at higher tire pressure in summer to optimize speed and efficiency, lower tire pressure in winter for snow and ice

"edited to change winter for summer"