Full suspension with Belt drive - why ?
- Thread starter pushkar
- Start date
smorgasbord
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Well, you left out a kind-of important step: "install new belt" !
But yeah, it is pretty easy since there's no threading through the derailleur and no master links to mess with.On the belt drive bike I had for a few weeks, the reinstallation of the wheel did not restore the belt tension. This was certainly an implementation fault in the bike frame that's not worth getting into here. With the belt tensioner the R&M FS bikes have, I would guess that's not a problem at all.
That said, the biggest problem with derailleurs for me is them getting whacked. I'm not yet convinced that the Rohloff, as great a piece of engineering as it is, is worth it for me. I do know that lesser IGHs are probably not worth it for almost anyone. The aforementioned belt drive bike had the Nuvinci envolo IGH, and it was noticeably less efficient than a cassette/chain/derailleur setup.
Explorer-1
Have bike, will travel
- Region
- USA
- City
- Boston North Shore
I will try not to buy another bike that does not have a belt-drive; however, I've decided that it probably does not need to be a full-suspension bike. I'll probably be happy if it is, but I'd save money any maintenance issues if a good hard-tail appears.
onlineaddy
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- San Diego, CA, USA
I assume you're aware of the superbike since you're in the WW forum.
pushkar
Well-Known Member
This is more an info gathering exercise at this point. We currently have the Travalanche FS - which works quite well.
pushkar
Well-Known Member
Well, you left out a kind-of important step: "install new belt" !
On the belt drive bike I had for a few weeks, the reinstallation of the wheel did not restore the belt tension. This was certainly an implementation fault in the bike frame that's not worth getting into here. With the belt tensioner the R&M FS bikes have, I would guess that's not a problem at all.
That said, the biggest problem with derailleurs for me is them getting whacked. I'm not yet convinced that the Rohloff, as great a piece of engineering as it is, is worth it for me. I do know that lesser IGHs are probably not worth it for almost anyone. The aforementioned belt drive bike had the Nuvinci envolo IGH, and it was noticeably less efficient than a cassette/chain/derailleur setup.
Doing belt tension on a hardtail is definitely easier. Shimano Nexus 3 speed or Sturmey Archer 3 speed are great alternatives. They are not super flashy tbh, but paired with the right cog ratio, they shine for ebikes.
Why is it easier with hard tails?
What makes it harder for the fs offerings that come with a tensioner pulley?
pushkar
Well-Known Member
I have zero experience with FS and belts.
I am comparing my experience on our bikes with what @smorgasbord wrote above (hard to do belt tension with FS). May be @smorgasbord can comment on what the issues were ?
smorgasbord
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
I was assuming it's hard because only one company is doing it.
pushkar
Well-Known Member
Oh ok.. i misunderstood. I read it as "hard to tension" as part of replacing the belt.
Yes, doing FS with belt is hard (engineering problem). It is harder with Bafang Ultra due to high torque, that breaches the belt tension ceiling very quickly.
You did a thread asking for interest in a Bosch powered bike a while ago. Maybe that solves your issue of the high torque? Or Brose?
Alaskan
Well-Known Member
G1 EBOXX E14 • Nicolai Bicycles
en.nicolai-bicycles.com
steve mercier
Well-Known Member
Try Squirt. Then all you do is use a dry brush on the chain and wipe it off.
Explorer-1
Have bike, will travel
- Region
- USA
- City
- Boston North Shore
Yes, but since the founders date was moved up, and the private forum was created that was not accessible by most, but not all, who had not committed, possible delivery delay as a result of SARS-cov-2, payment options, and various things i could not get in on that. I'll probably get a new EUC this year instead, and wait for my next bike since my most recent bike only has 400km on it, and so far not a big fan of mid-drives. Looks like we might get some Pinion based bikes in the country soon, with Gates picking up the distribution for Pinion and that seems like possibly a better direction for me.
FlatSix911
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Silicon Valley
Thanks for the tip on the White Lightning Clean Streak... do you use a mechanical chain cleaner or just spray it on?
E-Wheels
Well-Known Member
I also question the tensioning methods that manufacturers are using, which appear to compromise the recommendations of Gates in regards to belt handling and tensionThis is the part I don't understand.
The pulley is there to keep the slack of belt in place. It's not forcing or fighting against the torque of motor.
If you place the pulley on the upper side of belt, the pulley will have to force the belt in place, because there will be tension when the rider is pedaling.
But the lower side of belt is pretty much being floppy, just dangling, so the pulley will only have to keep the belt in place.
It might be the case with motorcycles for pulley's torque limit, because the motorcycles have downshifting / engine braking, when the lower part of belt will be exposed to the tension, but for ebike, there's no such thing.
I might be missing something, I'm not en engineer.
Most tensioning methods I have seen apply tension to the outside of the belt with a pulley, which bends the belt back on it self
The top right image in this screenshot from the Gates handling and tension guide suggests it should be avoided
Attachments
pushkar
Well-Known Member
I also question the tensioning methods that manufacturers are using, which appear to compromise the recommendations of Gates in regards to belt handling and tension
Most tensioning methods I have seen apply tension to the outside of the belt with a pulley, which bends the belt back on it self
The top right image in this screenshot from the Gates handling and tension guide suggests it should be avoided
This is such a great point. You are absolutely right - the current providers appear to be compromising the recommendations from Gates.
smorgasbord
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Oh, I misunderstood. As I said, that was particular to a specific bicycle model and how they handled the rear wheel adjustment. Essentially, the sliding parts were painted and so didn't slide. I guess they slid the first time, but after you tighten them down, the thick paint gets crushed and becomes a mess.
Last edited:
smorgasbord
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
E-Wheels
Well-Known Member
I can see the functional reason why they are doing it this way, which is to keep the fixed take up pulley as close to the suspension pivot point as possible, but I would have thought that 2x spring loaded take up pulleys on a pivoting carrier mounted mid-way under the chainstay would give the belt a more obtuse angle, whilst still allowing sufficient “contact wrap“ of the belt around the bottom of the chainring
Last edited:
Similar threads
