Firmware update for charging limit

Stefan Mikes said:
I would not put it as harshly as you did.
The user has options:
  • Battery longevity (20-80% state of charge), or
  • Long range (100% charge).
My choice is long range and I know I'm killing my batteries but at least can set off for really long rides.
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IDK, if it had been a disclaimer that would be one thing, but the marketing is very clear when it comes to range which assumes a 100 percent charge.

Remember, these guys leave the door open for firmware updates.

Any cheap piece of audio equipment comes with free firmware updates that can be done automatically or via prompts.

I was surprised when my Marantz NR1200 started to update the firmware automatically.

That cost about 1/10th what my Turbo Vado Sl 5.0 cost.

I do love the bike though.
 
GAJ,

The "80 vs. 100%" dispute is similar to "throttle vs. pedal assist" or "hub-drive vs. mid-drive" or "derailleur vs. carbon belt/IGH vs. single speed" :) Leading to no decisive outcome but only creating futile arguments.

Some people want to keep their battery healthy for years (the "20-80%" concept). Other people (like me) think the life is too short, and the riding a lot and long is their lifestyle; the battery is just an expense.

Having said the above: Specialized realised the presence of frugal people, and gave them the option to protect their treasure (i.e., the battery). However, there is nothing wrong to use what you own to your satisfaction. That's why I am not harsh on Specialized but rather appreciate the new option they gave to users. Freedom of choice.
 
Stefan Mikes said:
I would not put it as harshly as you did.
The user has options:
  • Battery longevity (20-80% state of charge), or
  • Long range (100% charge).
My choice is long range and I know I'm killing my batteries but at least can set off for really long rides.
Click to expand...
Well Said Stefan and I am with you. my current battery is 3 years old and still going good. I have 3 other main batteries, so at least another 9 years worth........
 
Just the other day, I say to a friend let's go riding. I suggest a ride. "No, ahem, I did not pump up my battery so that will be too far and too hilly!" I ask why. Well, she's saving her battery so she only charges after two or three rides. But those rides have to fit within her parameters or she might run out of battery power. I've suggested charging after each ride but no, "she wants to save her battery!" Two schools of thought. I'm with use it or lose it. I charge after each ride and that way I'm set for whatever ride is suggested.
 
kahn said:
Just the other day, I say to a friend let's go riding. I suggest a ride. "No, ahem, I did not pump up my battery so that will be too far and too hilly!" I ask why. Well, she's saving her battery so she only charges after two or three rides. But those rides have to fit within her parameters or she might run out of battery power. I've suggested charging after each ride but no, "she wants to save her battery!" Two schools of thought. I'm with use it or lose it. I charge after each ride and that way I'm set for whatever ride is suggested.
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Interesting. I’m sort of in the middle on this. If I have no scheduled longer or group rides pending, I only charge when I’m below 30% or so when I come back from a ride. If I have a scheduled longer ride I charge the day before. I’ve been charging to 100%, but will probably change to the 80% settings when I don’t anticipate a ride of more than 30 miles.

in other words, 100% when endurance is needed, 80% for everyday.
 
BEC111 said:
Interesting. I’m sort of in the middle on this. If I have no scheduled longer or group rides pending, I only charge when I’m below 30% or so when I come back from a ride. If I have a scheduled longer ride I charge the day before. I’ve been charging to 100%, but will probably change to the 80% settings when I don’t anticipate a ride of more than 30 miles.

in other words, 100% when endurance is needed, 80% for everyday.
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That's my thinking as well.

Has there already been a poll done of how many miles these things last?
 
Guys,
This discussion led me to consider some improvements in my routines. For instance, I own three Vado batteries. Typically I use two of them for a longer ride, and it is only all three of them if I plan an Imperial Century (which I do maximum once a year). Moreover, I ride my big Vado on weekends only. It could be a good idea if I let one of the batteries "rest" at lower charge for a week or two, and keep the remaining two at 80% for the workdays, only charging them full on Friday.

I could also think of keeping my three SL Range Extender charged to 80% for most of the time but always having the main battery and the fourth RE charged at all times.

It would require some discipline from me but why not?
 
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Stefan Mikes said:
The update is certainly for the Gen 2, or MasterMind e-bikes. Not a bad thing, as many users do not ride their e-bikes as frequently as Guru or Ray.

Keeping the battery charge in the 20-80% charge range is certainly good for the battery longevity, and it is good Specialized eventually addressed the thing, at least as an useful option.

I actually ride my Vado SL (Gen 1) on a daily basis; I learned it is practical to keep my main battery and Range Extenders charged to 100%. I had a situation in which I had to unexpectedly solve several family related matters to find out my main battery and RE (I had only one RE at that time) were not completely recharged; an experience I would not like to repeat.

On the other hand, I ride my Vado 6.0 on weekends only. I could keep Vado batteries at 80% and only recharge them on Friday night. Still, I can keep them at 80% by manual controlling the charging (the older battery has 5 LEDs, so you know approximate State of Charge during the recharging).
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I have last year’s pre-mastermind creo and I just got the latest updates last week. My “Tune” tab in Mission Control now has the Charge Limit feature. It was turned off by default but it does turn on. I know from reading automotive EV battery studies that the 20-80% guidelines do significantly improve battery life. Most suggest that if you use the battery soon after a 100% charge, rather than fully charging the day before, it has a much smaller detrimental effect on battery life. My VW e-golf, for instance, has a programmable timer that allows me to set not only the start time for a charge, the max charge, but also the end time. it saves the last 20% or so of the charge for the hours just before my intended use time.
 
I rode an Orbea Gain for three years before I purchased my Turbo Creo. I rode the Gain year round, about 200 times per year, and charged it after every ride. Orbea provided this information about battery life in their literature:
1676744224910.png

200 rides per year leads to a pretty significant drop in capacity. Most likely, the Creo is about the same (I could not find similar information from Specialized).

With the Orbea, the reduction in capacity was absolutely apparent after three years. When I stopped riding it I had charged it about 600 cycles, so by the figures above it should have been around 70% or so of original capacity. I don't think it had dropped that much - probably more like 80% or 85%.

4 out of 5 of my rides throughout the year are 25 miles or less, so charging to 80% makes a lot of sense. I'll probably get the upgrade.

Here are a couple of good sites on how to treat your lithium batteries to get the best life out of them. This one more technical, this one less.
 
I think Specialized added the feature to minimize the noise from the customers who worry about their batteries. The rest are riding too much to worry about it. I worry about forgetting to plug it in after a ride and then realizing it just before the next ride. I had a fully charged RE so I was able to make the ride today using "RE first" and finishing with a couple of bars on the main.
 
I almost never open Mission Control on my phone. I don't use it to track rides, and I don't change my power settings, so there's really no reason to open it. I opened it today for the first time in probably six months to see which firmware I'm running and I was surprised to find that the battery tab shows 80 charge cycles. According to Garmin, I've done just over 180 rides with my Creo Turbo, and I've consistently charged it after every ride. So it appears that Specialized's charge cycle calculator has some kind of adjustment or weighting based on the amount of charge delivered.
 
I have a pre-2022 non-Mastermind Creo that can connect to the third party BLEvo app. I connected to it for the first time just to check the battery and it said I was down 3 wH on the nominal main battery capacity. MC says 60 cycles 5440 miles and 100% healthy which means it's on the normal life curve. I'm not going to worry about it.
 
PassoGavia said:
I almost never open Mission Control on my phone. I don't use it to track rides, and I don't change my power settings, so there's really no reason to open it. I opened it today for the first time in probably six months to see which firmware I'm running and I was surprised to find that the battery tab shows 80 charge cycles. According to Garmin, I've done just over 180 rides with my Creo Turbo, and I've consistently charged it after every ride. So it appears that Specialized's charge cycle calculator has some kind of adjustment or weighting based on the amount of charge delivered.
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Yes, it considers charging 0 to 100% as one complete charge cycle. So, let’s say you usually start charging when the battery is at 50% and charge to 100%, it would take two of these charge events to equal one charge cycle. Hope that makes sense.
 
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I'm wondering: Which Spec bikes can be updated over the air, and to what degree? I've done two OTA updates to display firmware, but my one update to motor and battery required that I go to a shop. I have a 2022 Creo with mastermind TCU. How is it for other bikes?
 
I don’t know why you’d go to a shop for this update (much less pay for it) - it’s easy, even for me, and I’m fairly limited in the tech savvy dept. If you can buy stuff on Amazon, you can do this update yourself. Also its easy to toggle on and off in Mission Control, so there is really no reason not to, especially if it can help extend the life of an expensive battery. I’m now limiting to 80% unless Im planning on a longer ride. And of course if you charge the battery off the bike it will still go to 100%.
 
Rich W. said:
I don’t know why you’d go to a shop for this update (much less pay for it) - it’s easy, even for me, and I’m fairly limited in the tech savvy dept. If you can buy stuff on Amazon, you can do this update yourself. Also it’s easy to toggle on and off in Mission Control, so there is really no reason not to, especially if it can help extend the life of an expensive battery. I’m now limiting to 80% unless Im planning on a longer ride. And of course if you charge the battery off the bike it will still go to 100%.
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You must have Mastermind. Earlier models cannot be updated by the user.
 
bobf said:
I just updated Mission Control on my phone and the display firmware on my Creo. No visit to bike shop required. I'm happy to see I can set an automatic upper limit on battery charge. With the limit set, I found that charging stops automatically at 80%, in line with what's been said here about maximizing battery life.

Nice feature, and the Specialized web site has decent documentation of it. That was a pleasant surprise, since I find that overall documentation of the Creo with Mastermind display is somewhat lacking.
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I have a 2022 Turbo Vado 5.0 but apparently I have to take the bike in for this firmware update. All previous updates have been via OTA.
 
From this: https://www.emtbforums.com/ams/specialized-introduce-battery-charge-limit.38/

”Your bike may require a full system update, including a battery and display update, to enable this feature. This update needs to be applied by an authorized Specialized retailer*. Please contact your retailer to schedule an appointment. Once completed, you can enable Charge Limit in Mission Control.”
 
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