Electric Car thread

[Bicyclista]

I don’t DCFC much...

DCFC = Detroit City Football Club. Yeah, I root for LAFC myself. Or the SD Wave!

 

[BigNerd]

They should build these in vacant parking lots like office buildings where many went remote or outdoor malls that are dead during the evening.

Or just retrofit parking garages that aren't as crowded anymore.

 

[Dorkyman]

Article today on CNBC on how "EV Euphoria is dead." All the automakers that said last year that they would stop ICE vehicle production are now frantically backtracking. I have a Lexus hybrid (made by Toyota) and have admired Toyota senior execs for holding their ground regarding their disdain for EV fanaticism and instead firmly holding their ground on hybrids. They were mocked for years, but it looks to me like Toyota has been exactly right.

Politicians have been virtue-signalling for years about "saving the planet," knowing full well that they will be retired by the time the ICE bans begin crushing the economy. Looking at you, California.

EV euphoria is dead. Automakers are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans

Automakers from Ford and GM to Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen and Aston Martin are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans.

www.cnbc.com

 

[teskow]

I'm a fan of the old air cooled VW's, I had lots of them as a kid. I'd buy a new one today if I could.
I like the soon to come electric VW bus. At least they tried to stay true to the original design as far as the aesthetics and didn't just poach the name. I can kind of see the old air cooled bus in the look. The specs so far look pretty good too. If it ever gets here, I'll look.

As a young person I too had VW autos. Most were the 36 horsepower ones. So noisy you had to yell to talk. No headwind maybe 60 MPH. Very little cabin heat if any. Set the valves real often. For a small car they didn't get very good gas mileage either, like 26 or 27. Yes the big V8's did about 1/2 that so in that respect it was great.
Do I want to go back there, no way.

 

[gromike]

As a young person I too had VW autos. Most were the 36 horsepower ones. So noisy you had to yell to talk. No headwind maybe 60 MPH. Very little cabin heat if any. Set the valves real often. For a small car they didn't get very good gas mileage either, like 26 or 27. Yes the big V8's did about 1/2 that so in that respect it was great.
Do I want to go back there, no way.

I did like driving those old beetles, though the early ones were severely underpowered. Which was good because the brakes were so bad. And the 6 volt electrical system made push starting them a regular occurrence.
My parents had a '64 camper bus, and it was remarkable that we all didn't die in that thing. They then had '71 camper, and outside of burnt exhaust valves, it did pretty good. I had a '87 vanagon camper, and to me it was a great car. Volkswagen finally perfected their rear engine vehicles, IMO. I drove that thing 200k miles, never had to pull the heads or replace the clutch.

As for ev's, I am interested in the VW ID.Buzz microbus.

 

[PatriciaK]

Article today on CNBC on how "EV Euphoria is dead." All the automakers that said last year that they would stop ICE vehicle production are now frantically backtracking. I have a Lexus hybrid (made by Toyota) and have admired Toyota senior execs for holding their ground regarding their disdain for EV fanaticism and instead firmly holding their ground on hybrids. They were mocked for years, but it looks to me like Toyota has been exactly right.

Politicians have been virtue-signalling for years about "saving the planet," knowing full well that they will be retired by the time the ICE bans begin crushing the economy. Looking at you, California.

EV euphoria is dead. Automakers are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans

Automakers from Ford and GM to Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen and Aston Martin are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans.

www.cnbc.com

What a lot of these stories fail to report is that demand for EVs continues to grow - it's the rate of GROWTH in demand that is slowing, not demand itself. Like any new technology, there will be fits and starts. As the charging network continues to be built out, people will be much more amenable to purchasing an EV. And, it's not just "virtue signaling" about saving the planet either, though that is real. The lifetime cost of owning an EV is immensely less than that of an ICE vehicle. Zero gasoline cost (yes, electric cost, but that's lower). Zero oil changes. Zero engine maintenance (the electric motor is much simpler and practically zero moving parts to wear out). Zero engine fluids (radiator, transmission). Price is an issue right now, but as more vehicles come to the market, that initial price will fall, too.

A plug-in hybrid still comes with all the maintenance costs of an ICE vehicle, though those would probably be lower since most driving would be on the electric motor/battery. Regular hybrid vehicles still use petroleum, though less of it. I get that people are not comfortable yet with EVs, and hybrids make them feel better.

Norway is an interesting example of a nation that basically ditched ICE vehicles very quickly. They made the transition happen, because they wanted to make it happen. They're beginning to phase out hybrid incentives now, reserving them mostly for EVs. Yes, Norway produces a lot of petrolrum. But they've also demonstrated that the change can happen pretty quickly, with the right incentives, quickly building out the charging network, and a government and people committed to doing what it takes.

PS I still want my Hyundai Kona EV !

 

[scrambler]

I think for the people who cannot live with a pure electric car for charging problems, we need a different type of hybrid as I detailed below

Wondering about this idea for a different type of Hybrid.

www.gm-volt.com

 

[Dorkyman]

This topic can easily turn into a flame war, which does little good for either point of view.

I'd gently suggest that the rate of growth is rapidly declining, and manufacturers are no longer claiming they will ditch ICE vehicles.

Secondly, while there is a cost savings on "fuel" there is a brutal depreciation hit, and insurance I've read is also much higher. Maintenance? These days an ICE from a premium manufacturer requires very few repairs over its lifetime. I've read (can't recall where at the moment) that an EV requires 2/3 the shop time of an ICE vehicle. So there's a savings there, but not huge.

To add my own situation (I know, just a single data point, but still), we bought a gently-used Toyota hybrid RAV4 off a major Ford dealership here in Oregon last fall. I talked with the sales people about the Mustang Mach-E in the showroom and they pointed to the lot outside. "There are two entire rows of Mach-E's out there;" demand has plummeted. And this is in Oregon, considered a very green state.

A plug-in eliminates the range anxiety EV issue but all you're really saving is one gallon of gas per trip, since the battery only takes you 30-40 miles before exhaustion.

As an engineer (EE) I'm always interested in new technologies, but I find it a bit irritating to see the religious fervor that some folks have regarding EVs.

 

[twy]

Does this count. We use this at our summer home to get around town. At least it charges on 115 Vac. Unfortunately we are limited to streets that are 35 mph or less. Also, the trip there is too far to make an EV practical but at least we save gas while we are there.

 

[CodyDog]

To add my own situation (I know, just a single data point, but still), we bought a gently-used Toyota hybrid RAV4 off a major Ford dealership here in Oregon last fall. I talked with the sales people about the Mustang Mach-E in the showroom and they pointed to the lot outside. "There are two entire rows of Mach-E's out there;" demand has plummeted. And this is in Oregon, considered a very green state.

Recently I was in the market for a new car. Went by the Local Mercedes dealership and the sales representative said he would give me a great deal on an EV. Said they are not moving very well here in Colorado Springs.

 

[gromike]

Does this count. We use this at our summer home to get around town. At least it charges on 115 Vac. Unfortunately we are limited to streets that are 35 mph or less. Also, the trip there is too far to make an EV practical but at least we save gas while we are there.

I looked into getting a used NEV with FLA batteries for cheap, those things go for well over $1k, and me thinks to convert it to Li-ion battery is about $1k plus. So enjoy your ride. I want to get a GEM for next to nothing. Waiting for someone getting rid of a dead one at a fire sale price, because to fix it will cost a pretty penny.

 

[6zfshdb]

This topic can easily turn into a flame war, which does little good for either point of view.

As an engineer (EE) I'm always interested in new technologies, but I find it a bit irritating to see the religious fervor that some folks have regarding EVs.

I see this on other forums as well. EV's are becoming almost as polarizing as political discussions.

Too many of us form opinions without fully understanding the entire process. Those, like myself, who are basically in favor of transportation electrification, are branded as EV haters by simply voicing concerns about a single aspect of the process.

The concept is not an "all or nothing" proposition. There are many useful ideas and legitimate concerns discussed in these forums. Why not listen and comment without breaking out the flamethrowers!

 

[CanNik]

I want an EV, have checked out most from the Ford Mustang E to the Hyundai Ioniq 6 problem is we have no off road parking so no home charging, next car will therefore just because of this be a VW Tiguan Allspace

 

[PatriciaK]

This topic can easily turn into a flame war, which does little good for either point of view.

I'd gently suggest that the rate of growth is rapidly declining, and manufacturers are no longer claiming they will ditch ICE vehicles.

Secondly, while there is a cost savings on "fuel" there is a brutal depreciation hit, and insurance I've read is also much higher. Maintenance? These days an ICE from a premium manufacturer requires very few repairs over its lifetime. I've read (can't recall where at the moment) that an EV requires 2/3 the shop time of an ICE vehicle. So there's a savings there, but not huge.

To add my own situation (I know, just a single data point, but still), we bought a gently-used Toyota hybrid RAV4 off a major Ford dealership here in Oregon last fall. I talked with the sales people about the Mustang Mach-E in the showroom and they pointed to the lot outside. "There are two entire rows of Mach-E's out there;" demand has plummeted. And this is in Oregon, considered a very green state.

A plug-in eliminates the range anxiety EV issue but all you're really saving is one gallon of gas per trip, since the battery only takes you 30-40 miles before exhaustion.

As an engineer (EE) I'm always interested in new technologies, but I find it a bit irritating to see the religious fervor that some folks have regarding EVs.

I believe most of the data available shows that the majority of Americans drive well under 40 miles per day (yes, there are many who drive more than that, but they're still the minority), so a plug-in hybrid would use no gas at all on a daily basis.

 

[Roamers]

I believe most of the data available shows that the majority of Americans drive well under 40 miles per day (yes, there are many who drive more than that, but they're still the minority), so a plug-in hybrid would use no gas at all on a daily basis.

Not sure what the advantage of the added complexity of Hybrid over ICE besides making one feel good.

 

[BigNerd]

@PatriciaK

That's what I say... PHEVs are actually the worst of both worlds because you still have the ICE maintenance, low EV range and the worrisome ICE/EV interchange.

Someone on Electrek asked me why it's not the best of both worlds and I said because most PHEVs don't have 300mi EV range and 40mpg ICE range.

I got a PHEV first then realized we barely use gas and went EV and was fine. Wife still wasn't sure (her primary was an ICE) so got her a PHEV and now she realizes she prefers the EV.

I want an EV, have checked out most from the Ford Mustang E to the Hyundai Ioniq 6 problem is we have no off road parking so no home charging, next car will therefore just because of this be a VW Tiguan Allspace

Our Ioniq 5 is never parked in the garage or on the driveway... we never charge it at home (and I no charging at work). But it has free 30 minute sessions on EA and an 18-minute 10-80% charge time. So it parks on the road and we treat it like an ICE and "fill it up" every 10-14 days. The 18-minute charge time (which I sometimes stretch to the full 30 minutes if there is no one waiting) passes like nothing, especially if I'm eating breakfast or lunch, reading EBR or go walk around for a bit.

 

[Roamers]

no disrespect,why would a hybrid make someone feel good? it has an initial carbon footprint higher than an ice or ev.

None taken. I don't know why. They think it is helping the environment? Uninformed? Personally don't see any advantage to one.

My brother is getting ready replace some kind of Toyota hybrid rollerskate with (probably) a Tesla. To each their own.

 

[PDoz]

@PatriciaK

That's what I say... PHEVs are actually the worst of both worlds because you still have the ICE maintenance, low EV range and the worrisome ICE/EV interchange.

Someone on Electrek asked me why it's not the best of both worlds and I said because most PHEVs don't have 300mi EV range and 40mpg ICE range.

I got a PHEV first then realized we barely use gas and went EV and was fine. Wife still wasn't sure (her primary was an ICE) so got her a PHEV and now she realizes she prefers the EV.



Our Ioniq 5 is never parked in the garage or on the driveway... we never charge it at home (and I no charging at work). But it has free 30 minute sessions on EA and an 18-minute 10-80% charge time. So it parks on the road and we treat it like an ICE and "fill it up" every 10-14 days. The 18-minute charge time (which I sometimes stretch to the full 30 minutes if there is no one waiting) passes like nothing, especially if I'm eating breakfast or lunch, reading EBR or go walk around for a bit.

I keep hearing that phev are the worst of both worlds, but I'm hoping they SHOULD make sense for what I do.

Mon, Tues, Thurs and Fri are short trips to work / around town - easily within the limited ev range of a phev.

On Wed I travel for recreation - I alternate weeks between sailing - 65 km each way , plus towing a 2 tonne boat about 150 metres. I can plug in and recharge whilst sailing ( on solar) . The other weeks are variable drives to mountain bike destinations - that'll involve dino burning .

I struggle to justify the obscene prices of an EV that'll tow that boat for short distance, AND cope with mild 4x4 at mtb destinations. But there are plenty of reasonably priced phev's that should be up to it . (Eg mitsubishi eclipse cross / outlander) I figure I'd be running 9/10 days as an EV , with a much smaller battery - which surely has to be resource friendly? If I recharge whilst sailing, less that 20% of my km will be burning dinosaurs.

IF / when there's a reasonably priced EV IN AUSTRALIA that can manage to drag a 2 t boat up a ramp , then the phev can become our second car / local run about?

The alternative is I keep my diesel sucking ute for the recreation days and buy a dedicated EV for normal driving. That'd make a lot of sense for tax purposes , but it'd mean less that 30% of my km are done in EV mode!

 

[6zfshdb]

My brother made his own "hybrid" by carrying his Honda portable generator in his Chevy Bolt. He keeps engineered fuel in the generator, so he doesn't have to worry about stale gas. It runs about 3 hours on that fuel, which puts enough charge in the vehicle to go 40 - 50 miles.

He hasn't had to use it yet but he considers it insurance.

 

[PatriciaK]

I keep hearing that phev are the worst of both worlds, but I'm hoping they SHOULD make sense for what I do.

Mon, Tues, Thurs and Fri are short trips to work / around town - easily within the limited ev range of a phev.

On Wed I travel for recreation - I alternate weeks between sailing - 65 km each way , plus towing a 2 tonne boat about 150 metres. I can plug in and recharge whilst sailing ( on solar) . The other weeks are variable drives to mountain bike destinations - that'll involve dino burning .

I struggle to justify the obscene prices of an EV that'll tow that boat for short distance, AND cope with mild 4x4 at mtb destinations. But there are plenty of reasonably priced phev's that should be up to it . (Eg mitsubishi eclipse cross / outlander) I figure I'd be running 9/10 days as an EV , with a much smaller battery - which surely has to be resource friendly? If I recharge whilst sailing, less that 20% of my km will be burning dinosaurs.

IF / when there's a reasonably priced EV IN AUSTRALIA that can manage to drag a 2 t boat up a ramp , then the phev can become our second car / local run about?

The alternative is I keep my diesel sucking ute for the recreation days and buy a dedicated EV for normal driving. That'd make a lot of sense for tax purposes , but it'd mean less that 30% of my km are done in EV mode!

Sometimes, the "worst of both worlds" is the best you can do .