Electric Car thread

[Readytoride]

ABRP is good. You plug in your vehicle details and starting battery percentage and it will calculate the quickest routes based on current weather conditions, terrain and traffic. You can even pay their monthly subscription and pair it with an OBD reader for real time telemetry. I still wish we didn’t need tools like this for long drives but it’s the price of not buying a Tesla. Daily commutes on the other hand are a cake walk.

Thanks for that little tutorial. I'll have to experiment with the app using one of the bike rides coming up this spring.

 

[kevinmccune]

90+% of my charging will be done at home . 90+% of my driving is well within the range of the battery.

,ice owners always like to point out some dufuss that has ran out of charge i guarantee there are plenty of gassers and diesels that are stalled for lack of fuel have yet to see a battery fire the only flaming vehicles i have seen are of the internal combustion variety.

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

,ice owners always like to point out some dufuss that has ran out of charge i guarantee there are plenty of gassers and diesels that are stalled for lack of fuel have yet to see a battery fire the only flaming vehicles i have seen are of the internal combustion variety.

I have seen lots of gas cars catch fire, one in particular at the order display at Wendy's. The guy got out, ran inside grabbed a fire extinguisher off the wall, while a volunteer firefighter pulled in off he street with another one, and the two of them put it out before the car was a total loss. Something that you cannot do with an EV, once they start to burn, they cannot be put out. There's lots of articles out there on that very subject. Very much like bike batteries, once they start to burn, they just cannot be put out with common extinguishers or lots of water.

What I have noticed through the past few years is more scorch marks along side highways from burnt vehicles. I know someone that had a diesel sprinter loaded with 14 people catch fire while driving through ohio. It was a complete loss. Vehicles catch fire, all kinds of them, only one is nearly impossible to extinguish. It's difficult to determine what is the truth from many different articles because there's so much agenda to push. I'll go with what a local fire chief said here about recent fires, and I tried to find the article but didn't. They've had several EV fire calls, and they fight them for hours, and all they can do is sit by and let them burn and keep them from spreading to other locations.

There was a guy in Florida I read an article about a while ago that burnt alive in his car because the manufacturer thought retracting door handles as a good idea and extra strong glass. Car crashed, caught fire, power was cut to vehicle, the electric door handles couldn't be accessed and they couldn't break his windows, the rescuers watch him burn alive because the nifty features and "safe" glass kept him from being rescued.

 

[kevinmccune]

I have seen lots of gas cars catch fire, one in particular at the order display at Wendy's. The guy got out, ran inside grabbed a fire extinguisher off the wall, while a volunteer firefighter pulled in off he street with another one, and the two of them put it out before the car was a total loss. Something that you cannot do with an EV, once they start to burn, they cannot be put out. There's lots of articles out there on that very subject. Very much like bike batteries, once they start to burn, they just cannot be put out with common extinguishers or lots of water.

What I have noticed through the past few years is more scorch marks along side highways from burnt vehicles. I know someone that had a diesel sprinter loaded with 14 people catch fire while driving through ohio. It was a complete loss. Vehicles catch fire, all kinds of them, only one is nearly impossible to extinguish. It's difficult to determine what is the truth from many different articles because there's so much agenda to push. I'll go with what a local fire chief said here about recent fires, and I tried to find the article but didn't. They've had several EV fire calls, and they fight them for hours, and all they can do is sit by and let them burn and keep them from spreading to other locations.

There was a guy in Florida I read an article about a while ago that burnt alive in his car because the manufacturer thought retracting door handles as a good idea and extra strong glass. Car crashed, caught fire, power was cut to vehicle, the electric door handles couldn't be accessed and they couldn't break his windows, the rescuers watch him burn alive because the nifty features and "safe" glass kept him from being rescued.

yep last part my thought exactly, however i believe i could go through "unbreakable glass" with a fireax that glass couldnt be thick enough to be that strong sounds iffy to me. ah yes metal are hard to extinghuish,one cat told me the "ions" couldnt burn i wonder where he thought the ions came from?

 

[None]

She looks like a pro.

 

[PatriciaK]

,ice owners always like to point out some dufuss that has ran out of charge i guarantee there are plenty of gassers and diesels that are stalled for lack of fuel have yet to see a battery fire the only flaming vehicles i have seen are of the internal combustion variety.

There have to be stats out there somewhere comparing the numbers/ percentages of fires in ICE and EVs. I think, to some extent, EV fires are "news" because they're different. That doesn't necessarily mean they're more prone to catch fire than other vehicles are.

 

[PatriciaK]

It's not an ideal situation selling expensive new tech cars where the part that is more than half the value of the vehicle is seen as a tech that has to be replaced as soon as possible with something safer, more reliable and much better performance.

I'll wait thankyou

Are you talking about the battery?

The similar battery in my 2010 Prius was warranted for 10 years, and it's still doing its job, almost 14 years later. Also, the price of replacing that battery has dropped dramatically from what it was when I bought the car. Approximately $2500 every 15 years isn't a bad deal. I believe most EV manufacturers are warranting their batteries for a similar period.

Also, the materials in those batteries can be recycled, though the recycling industry is in its infancy now due to lack of product - not enough batteries have worn out yet to make recycling in a large scale economically viable - yet.

Battery technology will continue to improve - I just hope the brainiacs who are involved in the development make them "plug and play", so it's easy to upgrade .

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

yep last part my thought exactly, however i believe i could go through "unbreakable glass" with a fireax that glass couldnt be thick enough to be that strong sounds iffy to me. ah yes metal are hard to extinghuish,one cat told me the "ions" couldnt burn i wonder where he thought the ions came from?

If you're carrying a fire axe. Most people don't carry extinguishers in the cars, let alone an axe. If you're in the car, and you have one, you probably couldn't get enough of a swing to break it. Some safety features in cars are making people less safe, some due to general human nature, some because they create unsafe situations.

 

[Readytoride]

There have to be stats out there somewhere comparing the numbers/ percentages of fires in ICE and EVs. I think, to some extent, EV fires are "news" because they're different. That doesn't necessarily mean they're more prone to catch fire than other vehicles are.

Seems like Kelley Blue Book's analysts agrees with you:

Study: Electric Vehicles Involved in Fewest Car Fires​

By Sean Tucker 01/28/2022 Kelley Bluebook

Electric cars have been subject to several high-profile recalls over fire risk. Yet, a new study shows they are less likely to cause a vehicle fire than either gas-powered cars or hybrid vehicles. Analysts from AutoInsuranceEZ examined data from the National Transportation Safety Board to track the number of car fires and compared it to sales data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

The result? Hybrid-powered cars were involved in about 3,475 fires per every 100,000 sold. Gasoline-powered cars, about 1,530. Electric vehicles (EVs) saw just 25 fires per 100,000 sold.

There is some logic to the results. After all, gasoline-powered cars depend on combustion to move. The energy transfer electric cars use to move doesn’t involve anything burning.
....
“Despite the focus on EV fires in the news,” the researchers concluded, “they are not inherently more dangerous than gas or hybrid vehicles, although electric fires tend to be more difficult than gas fires to extinguish.”
....

Just gossiping here, but, what I found out after I had debadged my (Generation 2) 2018 Leaf was...the badging that said "Zero Emissions" plastered on the sides and back of the car (which I thought was beyond tacky and thus quickly removed them), was there because it was to helpfully "inform" emergency personnel that the car was an ev, not gasoline. So it would be treated differently (foam, I guess, rather than water) to put out a fire.

Again, the Leaf was one of the forerunners in the early days when EVs still were an anomaly....but it must have been a Nissan thing with their Leaf models because Tesla never badged their cars, nor did Chevrolet.

Nissan has since dropped that badging for all their new EVs. No other EV manufacturer out there has ever used any of that badging.

 

[EMGX]

I seriously looked into buying a used Prius to see how I liked it. Same good insurance coverage as on my truck was almost $1600 annually vs $900 for the truck or Xterra. Since it wouldn't replace a current vehicle the insurance plus registration alone would fully pay for ~6000 miles fuel for either the truck or xterra, which is about my current annual mileage for each. So in comparison, driving my truck with "free" fuel won out, not to mention purchase price and upkeep that prius ownership would entail. Interestingly same insurance quote on a used Ford c-max was about $500 less than the Prius but frequently reported transmission issues with the c-max crossed it off.
As an aside the smell (or memory of the smell) from shovelling horse manure daily would probably make the average person feel more "ill" than a twice. a month, few minutes, filling their tank with diesel.

 

[Readytoride]

If you're carrying a fire axe...

I didn't carry an ax in my old F250, but I did have a small fire extinguisher behind the back seat. Never had the need to use it, thankfully. It was expired by the time we sold the truck and thus went to recycle.

I don't keep an extinguisher in the Rivian at the moment, but I might add one just in case I ever come across an ICE car or truck on fire....

Not sure I'd want to carry an ax, tho it might come in handy if I was off roading my truck in the wilderness.

This forum sure has plenty of interesting things to think about.

 

[Chargeride]

Seems like Kelley Blue Book's analysts agrees with you:

Study: Electric Vehicles Involved in Fewest Car Fires​

By Sean Tucker 01/28/2022 Kelley Bluebook

Electric cars have been subject to several high-profile recalls over fire risk. Yet, a new study shows they are less likely to cause a vehicle fire than either gas-powered cars or hybrid vehicles. Analysts from AutoInsuranceEZ examined data from the National Transportation Safety Board to track the number of car fires and compared it to sales data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

The result? Hybrid-powered cars were involved in about 3,475 fires per every 100,000 sold. Gasoline-powered cars, about 1,530. Electric vehicles (EVs) saw just 25 fires per 100,000 sold.

There is some logic to the results. After all, gasoline-powered cars depend on combustion to move. The energy transfer electric cars use to move doesn’t involve anything burning.
....
“Despite the focus on EV fires in the news,” the researchers concluded, “they are not inherently more dangerous than gas or hybrid vehicles, although electric fires tend to be more difficult than gas fires to extinguish.”
....

Just gossiping here, but, what I found out after I had debadged my (Generation 2) 2018 Leaf was...the badging that said "Zero Emissions" plastered on the sides and back of the car (which I thought was beyond tacky and thus quickly removed them), was there because it was to helpfully "inform" emergency personnel that the car was an ev, not gasoline. So it would be treated differently (foam, I guess, rather than water) to put out a fire.

Again, the Leaf was one of the forerunners in the early days when EVs still were an anomaly....but it must have been a Nissan thing with their Leaf models because Tesla never badged their cars, nor did Chevrolet.

Nissan has since dropped that badging for all their new EVs. No other EV manufacturer out there has ever used any of that badging.

Very true, but also completely skewed by the age of EVs, and all the home repaired petrol cars, classic cars and general condition of cars up to 100 years old on the roads.

 

[Readytoride]

Very true, but also completely skewed by the age of EVs, and all the home repaired petrol cars, classic cars and general condition of cars up to 100 years old on the roads.

I agree. I think the data, to be honestly accurate, needs to be one on one with the year of manufacturer, rather than a lump pile of data without regard to vehicle age and safety inovation. Because the data sets weren't discussed, we don't know how the numbers added up except it being based upon the number of the three types of cars registered for legally being on the road vs. accident induced fires in each type.

I would think a 100 year old car would be too valuable for everyday use and more apt for show or exhibit. Plus those are real unicorns in this day and age. The 1980s ice cars/trucks as the earliest age limit for comparison would be more realistic.

 

[scrambler]

Very true!!

Except for the fact that the aging of EV battery has most likely a lot less influence on the risk of fire.

 

[Readytoride]

Does anyone remember the Pinto? Small, cute, affordable, and (if the news would have you belive) prone to bursting into flames at even a minor rear end accident. Seems the gas tank was inappropriately placed in front of the axel, exposed. Took a few fires before Ford sighed and moved the fuel tank to a safer spot.

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

Does anyone remember the Pinto? Small, cute, affordable, and (if the news would have you belive) prone to bursting into flames at even a minor rear end accident. Seems the gas tank was inappropriately placed in front of the axel, exposed. Took a few fires before Ford sighed and moved the fuel tank to a safer spot.

27 people died in Pinto fires, and it was pulled off he market. There's 44 or more deaths associated with EV fires, and no one blinks.

 

[Chargeride]

A third London electric bus has caught fire, it sounds like an issue with an auxillary device, a loud bang heard again.
If that was battery gases exploding then the fire would have been far more serious.

 

[Chargeride]

Are you talking about the battery?

The similar battery in my 2010 Prius was warranted for 10 years, and it's still doing its job, almost 14 years later. Also, the price of replacing that battery has dropped dramatically from what it was when I bought the car. Approximately $2500 every 15 years isn't a bad deal. I believe most EV manufacturers are warranting their batteries for a similar period.

Also, the materials in those batteries can be recycled, though the recycling industry is in its infancy now due to lack of product - not enough batteries have worn out yet to make recycling in a large scale economically viable - yet.

Battery technology will continue to improve - I just hope the brainiacs who are involved in the development make them "plug and play", so it's easy to upgrade .

Yes, they are very safe and reliable.
But I'll wait for the new tech they are desperate to perfect

 

[Taylor57]

90+% of my charging will be done at home . 90+% of my driving is well within the range of the battery.

Then you will be fine. No more oil changes, no more air filter changes, rarely need brakes due to regen and best of all-no more pumping petrol. Another think I like is when I pull into my garage with the Ecar and I'm listening to a good tune, I can finish listening not having to worry about cabron monoxide!!

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

Does anyone here own a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV?
We are looking at one for our family because it has more range than the RAV4 Prime, and supposedly, the AWD is perfect for Canadian weather.