Electric Car thread
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mrgold35
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My MDX/RLX hybrids are performance hybrids with the same EV system components you find in the +$150,000 Acura NSX sport car (just have a different V-6 engine for each vehicle). Increased performance, handling, and braking using EV components with the side effect of improved mpgs instead of using Turbos and/or supercharger. These vehicles would need a battery pack 7X-10X larger/heavier/take up more space to get +25 mile plug-in EV range. Starting to see more vehicles today that are leaning towards performance hybrids with the side effect of improved mpgs.
It seems hybrid vehicles of the past were low performance mpgs hybrid like the Toyota Prius/Camry or Honda Insight/Civic. That might be stuck in some potential buyer's heads since BEVs have +2X the performance compared to gas only and gas/hybrid versions. Factor in a lot hybrid models had a +$5000 premium for these low performance hybrids with break even cost +10 years out. Plus, all the issues, higher cost, and maintenance requirements with pure EVs and internal combustion only vehicles are now rolling into a hybrid vehicle (worst of both worlds type of thing long term). The integration of EV/ICE tech together and having it work seamlessly for +200,000 miles is very difficult compared to separate ICE or EV software alone.
I can understand why hybrid/plug-in hybrids are a low priority compared to just jumping ahead to BEVs. Switching to EVs reminds me of those old pictures of New York city at around 1900 when horse/buggy was the main form of transportation (ton of horse crap in the city streets, smell, health concerns). Switching to the automobile was the answer and infrastructure soon followed years/decades later along with improvements with features, range, performance, safety, and options with each model year. Gas powered cars are our version of "horse & buggy". It is going to take time and several generations before we see the benefits of EVs.
Readytoride
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- Virginia
Sorry, but...that photo isn't showing manure. It's showing rocks and rock debris. Ask me how I know (closing on 50 years of owning horses and shoveling their manure daily). Whoever titled this photo as showing a manure laden street did so in (it feels like deliberate) error. I think they were trying for the "ewwww!" factor.
All cities in the prior centuries had a street sweeper department that kept the streets as manure free as possible. It was a daily job with steady employment...until the automobile shoved the horse outside the cities to the countryside where the 4 legged transportation icon would remain until the 1930s....because a horse was easy to refuel with grass and could live into its late 20s and sometimes early 30s. Cars, on the other hand, were perfect for the city life. No debris, ready to go at the turn of a handle vs tacking up and "putting to" (if dricing a carriage), didn't require a groom or someone minding the vehicle when left alone. Plus they didn't require daily care when not being used.
People struggle to give up what they know when it comes time to embrace new technology.
(I have one hay burner left. He's 22 with a 33 year lifespan, and his only job is being a lawn ornament, but judging by his antics yesterday, bucking and running in the snow when it was 17°f with single digit wind chills, I'm pretty sure he's going to outlive me. And yes, I still pick up after him. All his production - that doesn't escape my notice and degrade into the soil in a few days - goes on the gardens.)
All cities in the prior centuries had a street sweeper department that kept the streets as manure free as possible. It was a daily job with steady employment...until the automobile shoved the horse outside the cities to the countryside where the 4 legged transportation icon would remain until the 1930s....because a horse was easy to refuel with grass and could live into its late 20s and sometimes early 30s. Cars, on the other hand, were perfect for the city life. No debris, ready to go at the turn of a handle vs tacking up and "putting to" (if dricing a carriage), didn't require a groom or someone minding the vehicle when left alone. Plus they didn't require daily care when not being used.
People struggle to give up what they know when it comes time to embrace new technology.
(I have one hay burner left. He's 22 with a 33 year lifespan, and his only job is being a lawn ornament, but judging by his antics yesterday, bucking and running in the snow when it was 17°f with single digit wind chills, I'm pretty sure he's going to outlive me. And yes, I still pick up after him. All his production - that doesn't escape my notice and degrade into the soil in a few days - goes on the gardens.)
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mrgold35
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- ABQ, New Mexico
Exceptions do not make the rule. Check out this Wikipedia for a list of hybrid vehicles over the years. How many are still around compared to the gas only versions.
List of hybrid vehicles - Wikipedia
mrgold35
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Not sure how you get "rock and rock debris" in the middle of a city unless you are doing construction? I only see horses for parades, mounted police, or romantic horse drawn carriages now days within city limits.
The point is the BEV is here to stay and petrol power vehicles are on the way out like the horse & buggy. The change isn't for us; but, our great-great-great grandkids in the year +2100. Very few people today are wanting to turn back the clock to horse & buggy in cities or covered wagons on the Oregon trail type of living. Sure, there will always be a need to old proven tech for certain situations. My father-in-law traded in his horse for a 4 wheeler when he needs to round up his cattle or check the pasture for coyotes. He only uses his horse for fun rides with grandkids or Elk hunting.
Readytoride
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- Virginia
I do see hybrids as a valid and worthwhile stepping stone for those who routinely travel great distances and are afraid to take the BEV plunge. We sold our hybrid when we realized it was sitting for months unused while we drove the 150 mile range EV everywhere. The hybrid (Prius) did come in handy for those 4-5 hour trips out of state, but it was noisy, uncomfortable, lackluster, and tiring to drive. We had loved it before the EV, but...that love turned sour when we realized the hybrid was just taking up space, costing insurance and taxes and tags while rarely being used, and depreciating at the same time.
In retrospect, I wish I'd sold it years before when it was worth more, and simply rented a car when I wanted to do a long trip. I would have saved far more money in the long run renting rather than having a hybrid at my beck and call.
In retrospect, I wish I'd sold it years before when it was worth more, and simply rented a car when I wanted to do a long trip. I would have saved far more money in the long run renting rather than having a hybrid at my beck and call.
Readytoride
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- Virginia
It could have resulted from a wagon filled with rock and dirt breaking down on that road and the dumped results being swept to the side to make way way for traffic. Lots of conjecture as to how that debris got there, but it sure as heck is NOT manure.
We only have long range BEVs now - 300 mile car and 350 mile truck. The sole holdout is the diesel farm tractor and the gas riding mowers. One mower will be replaced with a battery zero turn this year, the other gas mower is fated to be eliminated in favor of a battery mower in about 2 years time. All our other lawn and garden tools are battery, including rototiller and weed wackers. Large farm equipment historically seems to always be the last in the line of any technological advancements, so our diesel farm tractor will probably live on for another decade or so.
I've spent a lot of money in transitioning to electric and adding solar, but I did so, and will continue to do so, with my grandkids in mind.
mrgold35
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Exceptions do not make the rule. There are also fail diesel, gas powered, electric, hybrid, and fuel cell vehicles over the years. For every successful Accord/Camry, there is a Pontiac, Mercury, or Saturn in the junk yard. BEVs are the answer; but, that doesn't mean your one Ford model will come out on top decades later.
The wikipedia is just showing at a glance the progression of hybrids vehicles to become better, stronger, faster, increased flexibility, improved range, and cheaper with time. BEVs will hit a critical mass when the market will tip in the BEV way along with supporting infrastructure. That could be decades or even a century away; but, it will happen.
Reminds me when I first purchased my 2016 Radrover ebike. Not a lot of choices on the market, limited battery range, basic features, and no support other than Rad customer service most to the time. Add in the haters of "you are cheating", "why don't you get a motor cycle", and "that isn't a real bike". Now, half the bikes I see around town are ebikes and way more people of all ages, conditioning levels, and sizes are riding. We haven't hit that critical mass with hybrids and BEVs and folks are still in the "the old way is the best way" mentality.
BEVs are not for us, they are for our grand kids. The best we can do and invest into the technology because we have the deep pockets, grow the infrastructure as needed, push innovation, and create a climate of acceptance to make hybrids/BEVs the norm.
mrgold35
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- ABQ, New Mexico
I love to get the best deal possible with price, features, reliability, flexibility, etc... It is just BEVs are not the best deal possible at this time for most of us (including me). We wouldn't have any issues with BEVs if they had a 1000 mile range minimum, took 10 mins or less to charge +80%, your can recharge anywhere with a plug/over-the-air/induction, induction charging option in parking spaces or at every stop light, miles of induction charging lanes powered by wind/solar while driving on the highway, and cost less than gas powered or hybrid vehicles. I can see this being the future for BEVs 30-100 years from now.
BigNerd
Well-Known Member
I used to think PHEVs were the answer to transition until I owned one. Instead of the best of both worlds, it was the worst. ICE maintenence, issues with electric to ICE systems and low EV range/slow charging and not much cheaper than EVs make it a loser in my eyes.
Hybrid is ok but it still requires gas and the cost difference doesn't make up the fuel savings. So unless hybrids cost the same as ICE, a high MPG ICE vehicle is a better value.
Hybrid is ok but it still requires gas and the cost difference doesn't make up the fuel savings. So unless hybrids cost the same as ICE, a high MPG ICE vehicle is a better value.
WattsUpDude
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About range anxiety…
This is from the first time I forgot to plug in before going to bed. I realized I could make it to work but was iffy about making it back home. The guess-o-meter stated I would make it home with 11 miles to spare on my 40 mile trip home. I got the "propulsion reduced" message about five miles from home but I made it.
This is from the first time I forgot to plug in before going to bed. I realized I could make it to work but was iffy about making it back home. The guess-o-meter stated I would make it home with 11 miles to spare on my 40 mile trip home. I got the "propulsion reduced" message about five miles from home but I made it.
Chargeride
Well-Known Member
Rode in a hybrid lexus SUV.
Very good acceleration and range anxiety non existent.
It's was a friend of the family and he just HAD to floor it to the speed limit everywhere he went.
Very good acceleration and range anxiety non existent.
It's was a friend of the family and he just HAD to floor it to the speed limit everywhere he went.
Despite what you might read posted by fans on this thread, compared to ICE - EVs are less reliable, entail more expensive maintenance/repair and with high depreciation (35% in 1st year) which prompted Hertz to dump a large portion of their EV fleet due to high associated costs and lack of demand. Add high insurance rates due to outright costs as well as among the highest accident/incident rates despite advanced accident avoidance technologies. Not to mention inadequate performance for average needs and in conditions common to much of the US. Add lack of charging infrastructure and grid capability. Heavy EVs also pose a safety risk to other drivers as "a 1,000-pound difference between vehicles results in a 47% increase in the likelihood that a crash turns deadly". And what about increased road infrastructure damage due to heavy EVs.
I fail to see how driving a 7,000# Rivian pseudo-truck (SUV) accomplishes anything to "save the planet" for one's grandchildren.
www.consumerreports.org
www.lendingtree.com
www.cbsnews.com
I fail to see how driving a 7,000# Rivian pseudo-truck (SUV) accomplishes anything to "save the planet" for one's grandchildren.
EVs Are Getting More Reliable, but They Still Lag Behind Hybrids and Gas-Only Cars - Consumer Reports
Consumer Reports shares insights about how electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) compare against traditional cars in reliability, based on owner surveys.
Tesla, Ram, Subaru Have Worst Drivers | LendingTree
Tesla, Ram and Subaru have the worst drivers, while Mercury, Pontiac and Cadillac have the best. Here's a full breakdown.
As electric vehicles become more common, experts worry they could pose a safety risk for other drivers
The increased weight of EVs and their batteries can make collisions with lighter cars more dangerous.
www.cbsnews.com
JedidiahStolzfus
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- Lancaster, PA
A 7000# Rivian assumed curb weight is 800# heavier than my fullsize sierra. I can pull a 3800# trailer 300+ miles on a full tank. Is there any EV truck that can come close to that? Keep in mind, that my truck powers the trailer as I'm pulling it, which has zero effect on range.
JedidiahStolzfus
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Nope, not really, I'm taking a 8 hour trip, I don't want to stop every 150 miles to charge and wait for how ever long it takes so I can travel another 150 miles. Keep in mind what I'm pulling, if I have food on board, it all has to be kept cold 41F or below. The longer it takes to get there, the more chance there is of a temperature problem. In my case, the trailer would have to be powered by the tow vehicle, which is going to take away from the range of any EV towning. It's not a lot of power required, under between 50W and 100W to keep the compressor and cooling fans running with occasional pulls of 4000W or more as the compressor starts. With my design, my Sierra is able to keep all that running as I'm buffering power through 3 marine batteries. There's a 12V40A circuit that runs the trailer and supplies constant power to keep the batteries up so the inverter can run the compressor.
6zfshdb
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- Northeast Pennsylvania
Make any EV a "hybrid" by carrying one of these:
An interesting story I just heard this weekend:
My ex co worker friend bought a Ford F150 Lightning Pro last year. He runs a regular 400 mile delivery route, a couple of times per week that takes him through some rural areas. He gets paid by the mile and figured the EV would save money in the long run. The vehicle range is only 240 miles, so he must recharge on the road. He has all the charging stations along his route plotted in the vehicle nav system, and usually charges at one while he eats lunch.
He started carrying the above generator a few months ago after an incident that almost left him stranded. One of his regular charging stations had been vandalized and the next two were "out of service". He nearly didn't make it to the next one. The idea is, a few hours charging with the generator will get him to the next charging station should another incident like this occur.
He was over for dinner on Saturday and told me he's thinking of going back to an ICE vehicle due to the uncertainty of where his next charge will come from. He said it was alarming about the number of these charging stations that either had a line of vehicles waiting, or were broken for one reason or another. He really likes the Lightning, and is genuinely eco minded but is well aware the EV movement has a long way to go.
I suppose it depends on location, type of use and circumstance that determines how practical an EV is for any particular individual. I fear it will be several more years before they are universally accepted.
If you subscribe to the Wall Street Journal, here's an article that discusses the "out of Service" issue.
An interesting story I just heard this weekend:
My ex co worker friend bought a Ford F150 Lightning Pro last year. He runs a regular 400 mile delivery route, a couple of times per week that takes him through some rural areas. He gets paid by the mile and figured the EV would save money in the long run. The vehicle range is only 240 miles, so he must recharge on the road. He has all the charging stations along his route plotted in the vehicle nav system, and usually charges at one while he eats lunch.
He started carrying the above generator a few months ago after an incident that almost left him stranded. One of his regular charging stations had been vandalized and the next two were "out of service". He nearly didn't make it to the next one. The idea is, a few hours charging with the generator will get him to the next charging station should another incident like this occur.
He was over for dinner on Saturday and told me he's thinking of going back to an ICE vehicle due to the uncertainty of where his next charge will come from. He said it was alarming about the number of these charging stations that either had a line of vehicles waiting, or were broken for one reason or another. He really likes the Lightning, and is genuinely eco minded but is well aware the EV movement has a long way to go.
I suppose it depends on location, type of use and circumstance that determines how practical an EV is for any particular individual. I fear it will be several more years before they are universally accepted.
If you subscribe to the Wall Street Journal, here's an article that discusses the "out of Service" issue.
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JedidiahStolzfus
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- Lancaster, PA
I was out in midstate PA and miscalculated my mileage and didn't fuel up when I should have, I made my stop and hit the GPS to find the closest source of fuel. The van said I had 11 miles left, the station was 9 miles away and was the only station within 20 miles. The station was in a very small town and was part of the local market/sub shop. I've never seen any place to recharge an EV in that area, even in the larger towns. EV's might be nice in larger cities, but when you get out into rural areas, you're not going to find a place to charge. Another time I needed diesel, found a Sheetz on the GPS, they always have diesel. Not that one. Had to drive another 14 miles, which I called ahead to see if they were open at 10:30pm. I think we're still a long way away from having charging stations in the rural areas. There's places in PA that are lucky to have electricity to their homes, one town I was in the entire town was blacked out in the middle of the day for no apparent reason.
You read my post, right? It was in reference to EVs, not hybrids - which are primarily ICE with very limited electric only capability. That is except for plug in hybrids which were the worst of all in the report.no you wouldnt want to take that lead sled off road with stock tires
you did read the article right? the hybrids are more reliable than the straight gassers according to that article
And yes, I put more confidence in consumer reports than in your (or other) random anecdotes.
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