Electric Car thread

[6zfshdb]

In addition to the cost of buying electricity, I'm waiting to see how the government is going to make up for the loss of gas tax revenue once we're all driving electric vehicles. Lots of plans are under consideration but nothing is consistent or definite. I, for one, would like to know how much it's going to cost me in the future before going electric.

They may be more environmentally beneficial but somehow, I don't see electric cars being cheaper to operate in the long run.

 

[GizmoEV]

So it was a much lower rate than on the 350kw charger.

That is interesting. You'd think that you could at least get the max the charger can put out if your vehicle can accept it.

I'm waiting to see how the government is going to make up for the loss of gas tax revenue once we're all driving electric vehicles.

Here in Washington State, we pay a $150/year road tax and $75/year electric vehicle infrastructure fee. Washington's gasoline tax is currently at $0.49/gal. Using the 2023 Kia Niro hybrid as a guide and 45mpg, that would be over 20k miles of driving or using the Toyota Corolla I replaced at 35mpg, that would be over 16k miles of driving to pay $225 in "road" taxes. Even just using the $150 portion, that translates to nearly 14k miles or nearly 11k miles, respectively. I don't think the state will be short any road taxes with EVs instead of gas or diesel vehicles paying fuel taxes.

 

[PDoz]

In addition to the cost of buying electricity, I'm waiting to see how the government is going to make up for the loss of gas tax revenue once we're all driving electric vehicles. Lots of plans are under consideration but nothing is consistent or definite. I, for one, would like to know how much it's going to cost me in the future before going electric.

They may be more environmentally beneficial but somehow, I don't see electric cars being cheaper to operate in the long run.

There are so many confusing contributions to EV economics - we're told that in Australia it's around $10 k cheaper over the average 5 year private ownership cycle, but that's reliant on good resale prices and I'm not convinced we'll have that in 5 years. I DO expect it's viable for me to run an EV via the business and come out ahead - at least it will be when vehicle to grid is viable.

In Victoria ( Australia) , they hit us with 2.5 c / km " low emission vehicle road user RATE " - they're not allowed to call it a tax..... the scheme is being challenged via the courts . For me that means an EV could cost MORE per kn than our toyota yaris cross if run as a private vehicle.

But it gets interesting if we purchase an EV via a novated lease / salary sacrifice program +/- charge at work - we'd avoid sales tax and fringe benefit tax ( long story, but our govt like exercising accountants brains) , I THINK the LEV tax can get paid via the lease so pre tax income stream. Charge via the business so that has tax benefits to me - especially if I can use vehicle to grid and effectively run our home via the company electricity bill.....All I need for that to be viable is v2g inverters to become readily available / cheaper ( so in the next couple of years).

Essentially, I'd be buying a $60 k mobile battery for $20 K post tax, it'd allow me to earn a few thousand $ each year pumping work electricity back into the grid at home, then at the 2-3 year mark I'd be selling a VERY low km EV ( work is 4 km away) . Sounds great - except I have 3 kids approaching driving age and suspect they are going to inherit those cars.....and a fuel efficient ICE makes a LOT more sense for a uni student in rental accommodation in the city ( hence our decision to buy the yaris cross as the first inheritance vehicle) .

We have 4 months to decide what the next inheritance vehicle will be

 

[kevinmccune]

In addition to the cost of buying electricity, I'm waiting to see how the government is going to make up for the loss of gas tax revenue once we're all driving electric vehicles. Lots of plans are under consideration but nothing is consistent or definite. I, for one, would like to know how much it's going to cost me in the future before going electric.

They may be more environmentally beneficial but somehow, I don't see electric cars being cheaper to operate in the long run.

Think about the maintenance hassles and cost, make mine electric.

 

[Taylor57]

I almost lit my EV on fire today on a ride back from a funeral in Yuma. Left Palm Springs with 100% charge and drove the 150 miles and went right to a fast charging Electrify America station. After much hassle, finally got it to charge but had to leave for funeral with a 75% charge. Range was listed as 190. Had to pull off 20 miles from home at auto dealer and try to charge on their supposed level 2. Waited 30 minutes and it didnt move from 5%. It's my last trip out of town with the EV. It is truly a golf cart and the ranges they list are bogus. It was advertised at 260 I think and the only way you would get 260 is to drive 30 mph with everything turned off. It was 105 today and I had to drive a fer piece with the AC off. Also, used one of the useless apps on my phone to try and find a charging station and found one-Tesla only. Looked great 10 or 15 Teslas charging away...

 

[kevinmccune]

I almost lit my EV on fire today on a ride back from a funeral in Yuma. Left Palm Springs with 100% charge and drove the 150 miles and went right to a fast charging Electrify America station. After much hassle, finally got it to charge but had to leave for funeral with a 75% charge. Range was listed as 190. Had to pull off 20 miles from home at auto dealer and try to charge on their supposed level 2. Waited 30 minutes and it didnt move from 5%. It's my last trip out of town with the EV. It is truly a golf cart and the ranges they list are bogus. It was advertised at 260 I think and the only way you would get 260 is to drive 30 mph with everything turned off. It was 105 today and I had to drive a fer piece with the AC off. Also, used one of the useless apps on my phone to try and find a charging station and found one-Tesla only. Looked great 10 or 15 Teslas charging away...

Talked to Guy yesterday who has a "Polestar" first one I had ever seen, He gets around 260 with it and has no problem making a no charge runs between what we consider Metro around here Covington( mill town) Staunton, Roanoke ,Harrisonburg, et al.If I was going on a long trip I would use an ICE, powered vehicle, it took awhile the manufacturers finally grudingly made ICE power very modern and effective, if electric had been under developement that long it would probably be even better. What holds my interest now are the high power, light weight electric motors Seimens is producing as a closet airplane designer and STOL lover, things are really starting to get interesting, one Guy got in the air in 16' in a STOL competition. Lift augmentation is one area that has my interest, been doing some mental exercises concerning "blown wings"( how to make a spar a high pressure air duct, eg.,)

 

[6zfshdb]

Think about the maintenance hassles and cost, make mine electric.

There is undoubtedly less maintenance with an EV but they aren't maintenance free. There are still things like tires, belts, brakes, A/C and most of all, the battery to consider. EV's are more for ecology than economy. IMO, those who buy EV's to save money may be disappointed when ALL factors are considered over the life of the vehicle.

Don't misunderstand, I'm all for going electric but it just isn't for me at this point in time. YMMV.

 

[Readytoride]

In addition to the cost of buying electricity, I'm waiting to see how the government is going to make up for the loss of gas tax revenue once we're all driving electric vehicles.

It was a shock for me when I bought my Leaf 5+ years ago and had to pay a registration cost $120 more than a gas car as a "highway use fee". Since then the cost has been modified downward (probably due to citizen pressure) by the inclusion of the fee to any gas car getting better than 25mpg. Then, to make things more equitable, Virginia instituted a "pay as you drive" program that allowed you to monthly pay a percentage of the fee based on the miles you drove. The fee was capped at $88. Sounds good, huh?

Well, it hid something that made it a huge NO GO for me. The state told prospective applicants they would issue you a transponder (cost a small fee which was refunded if the transponder was returned) that tracked your miles. What they didn't say, and only came out after you got the transponder and then read the small print flyer that came with it, was they tracked EVERYTHING related to your car: where you were going, the time spent at your destinations, time of trips from start to finish, etc. It was a massive Big Brother intrusion into people's personal, private lives, with the data being collected and held by a third party.

I actually called up the program to ask a few questions, and my concerns were laughed off (the clerk actually laughing) and told that extra collected data didn't go anywhere and not to worry. Yeah, right. I opted out of the program during that call and had them send me the packaging to return the transponder for my refund. Took them a while (maybe they were hoping I'd reconsider - fat chance) but the paperwork was eventually sent, the transponder returned, and several months later they finally removed my name from their database.

I'd rather pay the higher fee and be anonymous than have my every move tracked and recorded.

 

[Readytoride]

There is undoubtedly less maintenance with an EV but they aren't maintenance free. There are still things like tires, belts, brakes, A/C and most of all, the battery to consider. EV's are more for ecology than economy. IMO, those who buy EV's to save money may be disappointed when ALL factors are considered over the life of the vehicle.

Don't misunderstand, I'm all for going electric but it just isn't for me at this point in time. YMMV.

I'm on the opposite end of the scale. The only thing my electric vehicles require on the same level as an ICE are tires. Brakes, not so because of regenerative braking (my Leaf's brakes at 77k miles were "like new" per the mechanic that did my state inspection. He was astonished. Also, no "belts", no AC issues, no regular trips to the gas station because my car was fueled at home in the garage from an electric plug, and the battery is warranted for 8-10 years, and good for over 300,000 miles. Can't say that with any gas car.

But...to each their own. Frankly, I'm happy to leave behind the stench of fossil fuel and no longer be held a daily prisoner of the gas stations and gasoline industry with my cars.

 

[kevinmccune]

It was a shock for me when I bought my Leaf 5+ years ago and had to pay a registration cost $120 more than a gas car as a "highway use fee". Since then the cost has been modified downward (probably due to citizen pressure) by the inclusion of the fee to any gas car getting better than 25mpg. Then, to make things more equitable, Virginia instituted a "pay as you drive" program that allowed you to monthly pay a percentage of the fee based on the miles you drove. The fee was capped at $88. Sounds good, huh?

Well, it hid something that made it a huge NO GO for me. The state told prospective applicants they would issue you a transponder (cost a small fee which was refunded if the transponder was returned) that tracked your miles. What they didn't say, and only came out after you got the transponder and then read the small print flyer that came with it, was they tracked EVERYTHING related to your car: where you were going, the time spent at your destinations, time of trips from start to finish, etc. It was a massive Big Brother intrusion into people's personal, private lives, with the data being collected and held by a third party.

I actually called up the program to ask a few questions, and my concerns were laughed off (the clerk actually laughing) and told that extra collected data didn't go anywhere and not to worry. Yeah, right. I opted out of the program during that call and had them send me the packaging to return the transponder for my refund. Took them a while (maybe they were hoping I'd reconsider - fat chance) but the paperwork was eventually sent, the transponder returned, and several months later they finally removed my name from their database.

I'd rather pay the higher fee and be anonymous than have my every move tracked and recorded.

My wife had to pay the "Fuel efficient fee" when She bought Her 2019 CRV, its fair not great, 33 mpg when I drive it. They are going to get the cost of running an EV on parity with the ICE vehicles, count on it.Take a listen to Dr. Steven Greer, this whole burning crap to go somewhere will probably be moot in 20 years.I still want an EV, the instant torque and little maintenance appeals to Me, now let me tell a good one a truck maker( think it was Freightliner) has started producing a ( I think) class 6 truck( basically equivalent to a Lorry) The have it dumbed down so much( in their words)" we had made this so it performs like the Diesel equivalent", so forget any performance advantage( which was there for the taking) in an effort IMO to help preserve the market for the noisy stinky oil burners( calf piss burners as well) service a modern diesel truck and see how much money you leave at the parts vendor.

 

[kevinmccune]

I'm on the opposite end of the scale. The only thing my electric vehicles require on the same level as an ICE are tires. Brakes, not so because of regenerative braking (my Leaf's brakes at 77k miles were "like new" per the mechanic that did my state inspection. He was astonished. Also, no "belts", no AC issues, no regular trips to the gas station because my car was fueled at home in the garage from an electric plug, and the battery is warranted for 8-10 years, and good for over 300,000 miles. Can't say that with any gas car.

But...to each their own. Frankly, I'm happy to leave behind the stench of fossil fuel and no longer be held a daily prisoner of the gas stations and gasoline industry with my cars.

First off lets get something straight its no trick to get 300K out of a Toyota or Honda, my Daughters 07 Civic has 265K miles and still runs like new never requiring anything other than basic service-OTH I agree with all other things you pointed out and if anyway possible my next vehicle will be an EV. I really like the brake life thing, my Daughters SO basically ran our 08 Element in the ground I am in the process of replacing brakes on all 4 corners, He drove it to the nearby Ski resort during the winter( a lot of steep driving) and mostly never bothered to wash the sand and salt off of it, it has I believe 160 K on it still runs great, but grrr! having to replace those brakes PITA, He ran it a long time with a stuck caliper and was just grinding metal, so chalk one up for EVs and regen. My Wife is rough on brakes too.

 

[Art Deco]

I almost lit my EV on fire today on a ride back from a funeral in Yuma. Left Palm Springs with 100% charge and drove the 150 miles and went right to a fast charging Electrify America station. After much hassle, finally got it to charge but had to leave for funeral with a 75% charge. Range was listed as 190. Had to pull off 20 miles from home at auto dealer and try to charge on their supposed level 2. Waited 30 minutes and it didnt move from 5%. It's my last trip out of town with the EV. It is truly a golf cart and the ranges they list are bogus. It was advertised at 260 I think and the only way you would get 260 is to drive 30 mph with everything turned off. It was 105 today and I had to drive a fer piece with the AC off. Also, used one of the useless apps on my phone to try and find a charging station and found one-Tesla only. Looked great 10 or 15 Teslas charging away...

Ouch. I'm sorry (but not surprised) to hear that. Range estimates seem to be no better than the EPA mileage estimates when they first started doing them.

 

[Art Deco]

It was a shock for me when I bought my Leaf 5+ years ago and had to pay a registration cost $120 more than a gas car as a "highway use fee". Since then the cost has been modified downward (probably due to citizen pressure) by the inclusion of the fee to any gas car getting better than 25mpg. Then, to make things more equitable, Virginia instituted a "pay as you drive" program that allowed you to monthly pay a percentage of the fee based on the miles you drove. The fee was capped at $88. Sounds good, huh?

Well, it hid something that made it a huge NO GO for me. The state told prospective applicants they would issue you a transponder (cost a small fee which was refunded if the transponder was returned) that tracked your miles. What they didn't say, and only came out after you got the transponder and then read the small print flyer that came with it, was they tracked EVERYTHING related to your car: where you were going, the time spent at your destinations, time of trips from start to finish, etc. It was a massive Big Brother intrusion into people's personal, private lives, with the data being collected and held by a third party.

I actually called up the program to ask a few questions, and my concerns were laughed off (the clerk actually laughing) and told that extra collected data didn't go anywhere and not to worry. Yeah, right. I opted out of the program during that call and had them send me the packaging to return the transponder for my refund. Took them a while (maybe they were hoping I'd reconsider - fat chance) but the paperwork was eventually sent, the transponder returned, and several months later they finally removed my name from their database.

I'd rather pay the higher fee and be anonymous than have my every move tracked and recorded.

I have to agree . What George Orwell missed is that we are dumb enough to pay for all this intrusive tracking technology just so we can watch the occasional Youtube or TickTok video. BAH.

 

[BigNerd]

I also disagree there is more maintenance with EV other than tires could wear out faster because of the weight and instant torque.

 

[None]

I'm a big fan of EVs, EC.. not so much..

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[Readytoride]

@None- love your orange marmalade cat!!

What George Orwell missed is that we are dumb enough to pay for all this intrusive tracking technology

What worries me the most is...the Dept of Transportation will see the transponder as the "future" to ensuring "equitable highway use fees" when EVs start to out number the ICE cars. That's the impression I got from the way the program is being applied at the moment. Not something I want any part of, but not sure if there will be a way out of it if it becomes the state mandate.

 

[Roamers]

@None- love your orange marmalade cat!!

What worries me the most is...the Dept of Transportation will see the transponder as the "future" to ensuring "equitable highway use fees" when EVs start to out number the ICE cars. That's the impression I got from the way the program is being applied at the moment. Not something I want any part of, but not sure if there will be a way out of it if it becomes the state mandate.

My preference would be to eliminate fuel tax and make the entire Interstate system tolled at a rate to maintain the system. I'd also find it agreeable to have toll levels by vehicle registered weight.

 

[Readytoride]

Yes, that would help the interstates but what about the county roads, the 3rd tier roads, the gravel roads, all the roads that dip into the fuel fee pot?

Maybe, instead of the government paying billions of dollars to subsidize the fossil fuel industry, it should use that money to parcel out to states for maintenance of their road systems.

https://www.reuters.com › energy

Factbox: Biden budget to target U.S. fossil fuel subsidies - Reuters​

...Calculating the cost of U.S. subsidies for the fossil fuel industry is complex because the incentives stretch across the U.S. tax code, but estimates range from $10 to $50 billion per year.

Mar 9, 2023

 

[Roamers]

I agree there should be no subsidies for any group including oil, ethanol, EV, solar, wind, agriculture and on and on.

Federal government should only be responsible for their roads; i don't know enough about who pays for Interstate and "US" designated highway maintenance, but disagree with federal fuel tax. Prefer tolls. States and counties should be responsible for theirs. I should have said eliminate federal fuel tax.

 

[None]

Personally, I'd like to see infrastructure shift to roads that can charge your EV, then EV wouldn't need such heavy battery or overall vehicle weight.