Electric Car thread

Readytoride said:
Yup. Rivian originally planned to come out with a maximum range truck first, which is what I wanted. That's what I preordered. Then their plans changed to start their production with a medium range truck, and the "Maxpack" was shoved to the back of the line. I got to watch all the lesser range Rivians appearing on the road, happily driving past me by their smiling owners, while I waited, still driving a pristine but aging diesel F250. Unfortunately, I couldn't justify getting an electric truck with a range less than 400 miles to the charge.

Soooooo....4 long years later I'm finally getting my invite to test out the Rivian.
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Just to test it or to take ownership? I can barely wait a day or 2 when it's time for a new car!
 
Just to try it out. See how it feels, how it works, how well it fits my petite frame. To get to know where the controls are, etc.

My truck probably won't be ready for delivery until (maybe) October, if I'm lucky. They haven't started making the Maxpack yet.

I didn't have to wait long before buying a launch edition of the Nissan Ariya. Just a week or so from when I was introduced to the newest of EVs in the showroom, to when the reservation holder decided to release said car for sale because they weren't in the country to accept delivery. The excitement still hasn't worn off, and I'm finding new bits of technology in the car to play with every day.
 
Mulezen said:
An interesting comparison of ICE and BEV. Author takes pains to show his methodology

cleantechnica.com

Gas Cars Are Embarrassingly Uncompetitive — Lifecycle Cost Analysis - CleanTechnica

Gas Cars Are Embarrassingly Uncompetitive – Lifecycle Cost Analysis to EV,
cleantechnica.com cleantechnica.com
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Really nice analysis, good link and they did a nice job of capturing all the possible costs! I ran the numbers for us a few years ago and we just don’t drive enough to justify a new electric car yet. I think our next car will be ice and then we will get an ev in about ten years.
 
Mulezen said:
A look into EV future…interesting that a bike commuter pointed out a drawback to EVs on the road.
www.nytimes.com

In Norway, the Electric Vehicle Future Has Already Arrived (Published 2023)

About 80 percent of new cars sold in Norway are battery-powered. As a result, the air is cleaner, the streets are quieter and the grid hasn’t collapsed. But problems with unreliable chargers persist.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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Great article and interesting for sure to read about norways transition to higher adoption. What is interesting to me is I’ve talked to quite a few people lately buying new cars and none have even considered an electric vehicle. Seems like a lot of folks are still buying regular gas cars.
 
scottsdalecommuter said:
Great article and interesting for sure to read about norways transition to higher adoption. What is interesting to me is I’ve talked to quite a few people lately buying new cars and none have even considered an electric vehicle. Seems like a lot of folks are still buying regular gas cars.
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From my own personal experience one of the big problems is the vast majority of people (outside of California) haven't been introduced to an electric car unless they: 1. See one in the wild that has a friendly chatty knowledgeable owner happy to talk electric, or 2. See one on a legacy dealer showroom floor *and* engage a knowledgeable salesperson that is enthuastic about ecars to explain the pluses of electric.

At the moment finding an electric car stationary in the wild with an owner willing to chat at length is on the level of unicorn hunting. Finding a dealership salesperson that is more interested in selling electric vs the more profitable ICE is also rare. Salespeople aren't in the business to change your mindset. They're in the business to get you to buy whatever you say you're comfortable with, and whatever is in your price range, and whatever is on the lot. Because, let's face it, legacy dealership electric car inventory is slim to null, tend to be pricy compared to similarly featured ICE cars, and appeal to a more select demographic.

So that leaves the interested party to either go in search of printed/digital info on electric cars, some of which is deliberate misinformation designed to discourage rather than educate, or just shrug and keep buying ICE cars because it's an understood technology that can be fixed and repaired by the common masses, more available, and less mental hassle.

When the new gas cars stop rolling off the assembly line because governments have outlawed them, only at that point there will be a wholesale adoption of the new electric mode of transportation. It will take a couple of decades before the number of used ICE vehicles age out and become the new unicorns. Decades.

It took over 60 years before horses disappeared completely from the roads as the main means of transport for the same reasons as above. Most horses have a 20-25 year lifespan (sometime into their 30s) as a working animal once they pass 2 years of age, so for the average person used to quiet horses, it was a big jump to trust a noisy contraption. No reason to think it will take any less time to abandon ICE for electric.

Just musing here folks. Nothing more.
 
Readytoride said:
At the moment finding an electric car stationary in the wild with an owner willing to chat at length is on the level of unicorn hunting
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I've seen plenty stationary waiting for their turn at the charging station on the Interstate.
Readytoride said:
When the new gas cars stop rolling off the assembly line because governments have outlawed them,
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You know it's a good thing when adoption comes only because the government outlaws the alternative.
 
Readytoride said:
From my own personal experience one of the big problems is the vast majority of people (outside of California) haven't been introduced to an electric car unless they: 1. See one in the wild that has a friendly chatty knowledgeable owner happy to talk electric, or 2. See one on a legacy dealer showroom floor *and* engage a knowledgeable salesperson that is enthuastic about ecars to explain the pluses of electric.

At the moment finding an electric car stationary in the wild with an owner willing to chat at length is on the level of unicorn hunting. Finding a dealership salesperson that is more interested in selling electric vs the more profitable ICE is also rare. Salespeople aren't in the business to change your mindset. They're in the business to get you to buy whatever you say you're comfortable with, and whatever is in your price range, and whatever is on the lot. Because, let's face it, legacy dealership electric car inventory is slim to null, tend to be pricy compared to similarly featured ICE cars, and appeal to a more select demographic.

So that leaves the interested party to either go in search of printed/digital info on electric cars, some of which is deliberate misinformation designed to discourage rather than educate, or just shrug and keep buying ICE cars because it's an understood technology that can be fixed and repaired by the common masses, more available, and less mental hassle.

When the new gas cars stop rolling off the assembly line because governments have outlawed them, only at that point there will be a wholesale adoption of the new electric mode of transportation. It will take a couple of decades before the number of used ICE vehicles age out and become the new unicorns. Decades.

It took over 60 years before horses disappeared completely from the roads as the main means of transport for the same reasons as above. Most horses have a 20-25 year lifespan (sometime into their 30s) as a working animal once they pass 2 years of age, so for the average person used to quiet horses, it was a big jump to trust a noisy contraption. No reason to think it will take any less time to abandon ICE for electric.

Just musing here folks. Nothing more.
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Agreed, we are looking to get a regular car for our next car and then think the one after that may be electric so 15 years from now or so. We will stick to ebikes for now. My wife is actually very concerned about the electric battery fire (whether justified or not it’s a real concern of hers charging it in the garage). Plus the main long term savings comes from gas and we just don’t drive that much.
 
I wish I could use my ebike for more than just recreational riding. Living out in the countryside, miles from the local infrastructure of shopping and commerce, negates using an ebike, or any bike for that matter, as a means of transportation because of the distances involved. Thus we use the electric car every day.

I did have an interesting convo with my insurance agency yesterday. A friend and I had a hypothetical conversation on what to do when one runs out of battery in an out of the way location. A gas car only requires a gallon of fuel to get going at least far enough to get to a station, and that gallon can be carried by hand if necessary. But an electric car stuck in the middle of nowhere is a real problem. I wasn't sure what my insurance company would do in that case. Would they send a truck with a generator? Or tow the car to the nearest charging station?

Turns out this question was a new one for my insurance agent. She did say roadside assistance does provide a gallon of gas for an empty tank in an ICE car, but had no clue what they did for an electric car empty battery. I suggested this might be a new question, but it sure was going to become an issue when more electric cars hit the road with the classic clueless drivers. She agreed, checked with corporate, and found out they will simply tow the car to a charging station. She didn't know there were businesses starting up that provide a truck with a generator in the back to re-power a depleted battery. Yes, they are very few and far between, but they do exist. And it would probably be a heck of a lot cheaper than hauling the car to the nearest charger that may be 20 or more miles away.

She did say that there are only clients with electric cars on their books, but having a heads up now to issues that only affect electric cars beats trying to scramble later on when more and more of them hit the road.
 
Readytoride said:
I wish I could use my ebike for more than just recreational riding. Living out in the countryside, miles from the local infrastructure of shopping and commerce, negates using an ebike, or any bike for that matter, as a means of transportation because of the distances involved. Thus we use the electric car every day.

I did have an interesting convo with my insurance agency yesterday. A friend and I had a hypothetical conversation on what to do when one runs out of battery in an out of the way location. A gas car only requires a gallon of fuel to get going at least far enough to get to a station, and that gallon can be carried by hand if necessary. But an electric car stuck in the middle of nowhere is a real problem. I wasn't sure what my insurance company would do in that case. Would they send a truck with a generator? Or tow the car to the nearest charging station?

Turns out this question was a new one for my insurance agent. She did say roadside assistance does provide a gallon of gas for an empty tank in an ICE car, but had no clue what they did for an electric car empty battery. I suggested this might be a new question, but it sure was going to become an issue when more electric cars hit the road with the classic clueless drivers. She agreed, checked with corporate, and found out they will simply tow the car to a charging station. She didn't know there were businesses starting up that provide a truck with a generator in the back to re-power a depleted battery. Yes, they are very few and far between, but they do exist. And it would probably be a heck of a lot cheaper than hauling the car to the nearest charger that may be 20 or more miles away.

She did say that there are only clients with electric cars on their books, but having a heads up now to issues that only affect electric cars beats trying to scramble later on when more and more of them hit the road.
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Thanks for that information!

Do you keep your electric car in a garage? If so, will your insurance cover a vehicle battery related fire that damages the structure?

I have heard stories where homeowner insurance won't cover such damage and you're forced to try and sue the car maker.
 
All our vehicles have always been garaged .

Hypothetically speaking, if your gasoline car accidentally, through no fault of your own, caught fire while housed in your garage, would your HO insurance pay for damages? It would. Same applies to electric cars.

When the Chevrolet Bolt had the battery fires, I do know that their recall warning to all Bolt owners to not keep the cars in the garage until the battery was changed was taken very seriously by the insurance companies. If I recall correctly Chevrolet also warned owners not to charge the battery over a certain percentage (80%? 90%?) That's the only car mfr (naturally) that had any battery problem of which I am aware. Batteries were outsourced, not in-house/home grown.

Easy enough to find the data on the Bolt issue.
 
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News outlets began reporting in late August 2022 that more than 280,000 Hyundai Palisade and Kia Telluride SUVs were being recalled due to a fire risk. The fire risk is reportedly related to faulty trailer hitch wiring harnesses that can short circuit when debris collects on a circuit board inside.

Hyundua Palisade has a Internal combustion engine which I'm sure did contribute to the fire. Yes, insurance did cover the damage.
u84bxmap99za1.jpg
 
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WattsUpDude said:
But battery fires run hot and are much harder to put out.
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Absolutely. Which is why my Leaf came with "Zero Emissions" badging on both sides and the back. I thought Nissan was just advertising they were gas free with this electric car, only to find out later that badging all the way around was mandated as an alert to firemen, in the case of a fire, that the car was a battery EV and needed to be handled differently. No water, foam instead.
 
6zfshdb said:
Thanks for that information!

Do you keep your electric car in a garage? If so, will your insurance cover a vehicle battery related fire that damages the structure?

I have heard stories where homeowner insurance won't cover such damage and you're forced to try and sue the car maker.
Click to expand...
Depends. A fire that starts in an attached garage is covered completely, while a detached garage fire only covers a few thousand dollars for contents, in my policy. Policies can vary dramatically, even fron the same insurer .
 
procreator said:
Understand. However, I rarely buy a car newer than 8 yrs old. I look for quality used cars on which I can do my own repairs, and I take them to a mechanic for a pre-buy inspection. I suspect that as more and more used EVs come on the market, there will be better tools available to assess the condition of them.

In any case, a new ICE motor costs about $3-4k, or can likely be rebuilt for less if needed. A new battery costs $6k+, requires professional installation, and cannot be rebuilt at least not by a shade-tree mechanic like myself.
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My local newspaper (Bellingham, May 18) has an article about a new startup (the first attempt having failed) that swaps out a depleted battery and replaces it with a newly charged one. Apparently it takes just a few minutes for the swap, so it's no more inconvenient than gassing up.

I think this kind of system will make EVs more practical and popular. If such a station comes to my area, I'd certainly think of going EV.
 
Readytoride said:
It took over 60 years before horses disappeared completely from the roads as the main means of transport for the same reasons as above.
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"completely" is not the relevant metric, IMO. This shows how quickly we went from horse to cars at the turn of the last century:

Screen Shot 2023-05-19 at 1.58.43 PM.png


And while I can understand while some will dismiss California as an outlier, history shows that it's more likely a trailblazer which most of the rest of the country will follow. The first 3 months of this year, 1 out of 5 cars sold in California was a BEV.
 

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smorgasbord said:
completely" is not the relevant metric, IMO.
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Yet the word is the only relevant one for when horses, as a whole, were replaced by machines. The cities themselves were not the "benchmark" for the automobile takeover because they were historically more suitable for a car than a horse . Horses required a huge amount of infrastructure - feed transport, stabling, manure disposal, shoeing, harness making and repair, wheelwrights, carriage makers and repair, stable hands, coachmen, and veterinarians - that cost vastly more in the long term than an automobile. Space itself was at a premium in the cities and only the wealthy could afford the keeping of one or more horses next to the owners' homes. So when the car tootled onto the scene, with very little required to keep it, no cleanup, no fuel unless it was used, it was a godsend for anyone living in the city. Now tradesmen didn't have to hire out horses from a livery stable (which was were the vast majority of working horses came from) but could buy a truck and keep it parked out on the street for whenever they needed it. Less staff and far less work plus greater comfort and safety since cars didn't spook, shy, bolt, or fall over dead while still in harness. Plus anyone could drive a car, technically speaking. The roads were already paved in most cities by the 1900s which was another selling point for the car. It was smoothing riding, could go long distances without tiring, and so much simpler. They were the true universal tool.

So the car quickly became the darling of the city dweller by the first decade of the 20th century.

But just beyond the city limits were the endless interstate network of dirt and mud roads, the at grade fords for stream and river crossing, hideous ruts in the wet season and slippery conditions in the winter where 4 hooves were so much more efficient and trustworthy. The height of the horse and the wagon/carriages made horse drawn transportation much more reliable when road conditions were poor or non-existent. Horses could be fueled by free grass and water alongside the road, and there were extensive networks of farrier/carriage repair/overnight livery stables everywhere in the countryside.

It actually did take decades for the car to inch it's way into the countryside advancing only has fast as the road/bridges/fueling supply infrastructure was built to support the new wheeled transport. Trains were still favored for freight and long distance, and canals where there was a continuous river network, but horses remained with the local farming communities until Eisenhower signed into law the interstate highway system. That billl finally rang the death knell for horse drawn transportation everywhere. It kinda rang the bell for the railroad as well.

BTW - Neither of those old photos were of any "Easter Parade". They were snapshots of daily life and congestion in a city.
 
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