Electric Car thread

[Mulezen]

You never want to leave a red car outside. Birds are attracted to the color (reminds them of food - berries, apples, lollipops, etc) and they will mark it as their own territory and lay waste to the paint with their white runny poop, as well as smudge the windows by fighting their own reflection in your side mirrors or door windows. There is a reason the term "bird brain" entered our lexicon by definition as "terminally stupid". Red cars belong is a garage, preferably one with no tools on the walls to fall and dent the body, and in a bay far away from a door which enables foot traffic to come and go and thus inadvertently smudge the sides of the car or result in groceries being put on the hood to leave the hands free to open aforementioned door. It is best to have the section containing the car secured with a cotton rope and soft rubber traffic cones so no one is tempted to invade the car's space. A shop vac could be kept near at all times to vacuum the car after every use so that foot dirt, or crumbs from your passenger's Chik-fil-A meal, aren't ground into the floor rugs/seat upholstery. A soft squeegie and Windex should also be at hand to keep the windshield clean and streak free. Finally a red crayon should be placed in the glove compartment for the (god forbid) time when a paint scratch happens. The crayon - which is made of wax - can disguise the scratch until more permanent measures can be arranged to fix the offending damage. Finally, the red car should only be taken out in perfect weather with full sunshine at the perfect azimuth to fully highlight the color and cause all onlookers to stand in admiring wonder, or drool in envy.

Red cars are quite beautiful, no matter what their age. The love of a classy red sports car is ingrained in our DNA. Women adore them, and men lust for them (well, actually men lust for both but we're not going to go there).

It goes without saying that a red electric car with its amazing torque and sleek styling á la 2020s are the pinnacle, but at this point that color is almost never seen outside of the super luxury EVs like Porsche, Jaguar, Mercedes, and Tesla. Not sure why. Black, white, and blue are the prevailing "everyman" EV colors at this stage in the game. I will say Tesla's new (starting this year) $3,000 optional Ultra Red paint for the S and X is one gorgeous color of red!!.
View attachment 150037

I am now finding myself being tempted to paint one of my Gazelle ebikes a Tesla red.

Of course, should the red Tesla be damaged to the point of being totaled, the battery is still proprietary, and any wrecked Teslas are stripped of their batteries and reconditioned for the secondary market. Even if the batteries themselves are damaged, they are far too valuable to be tossed. That goes for any EV battery out there on the market.The damaged cells are replaced and the battery is resold, often being snapped up immediately by a waiting list of people in need. A big after-market infrastructure is growing in hopes of securing any and every EV battery for repurposing in other vehicles, the solar industry, or in use with a plethora of wide ranging economic operations needing a stand alone battery. The 3rd world countries are another emerging market for used batteries.

I wonder if a red EV battery would be worth more on the after market sales....

Sounds reasonable to me…except the part about bird brains…see Jennifer Ackerman’s “Genius of Birds”

 

[Readytoride]

I really should have added "/s" to the conclusion of my post, shouldn't I.

 

[Dorkyman]

Not a fan of EVs but not hostile to them. Saw an article today about how nearly-new battery packs are scrapped in even minor accidents because everyone is so nervous about ANY potential damage causing a massive fire down the road. The article said insurance companies were charging high premiums as a result. It singled out Tesla because they apparently make the battery structure a part of the vehicle structure.

Since a whole lot of CO2 goes into making a battery pack, the article said it was crazy that a damaged car would never pencil out CO2 savings because the battery would be swapped out long before the 60K miles savings threshold.

 

[scrambler]

Not a fan of EVs but not hostile to them. Saw an article today about how nearly-new battery packs are scrapped in even minor accidents because everyone is so nervous about ANY potential damage causing a massive fire down the road. The article said insurance companies were charging high premiums as a result. It singled out Tesla because they apparently make the battery structure a part of the vehicle structure.

Since a whole lot of CO2 goes into making a battery pack, the article said it was crazy that a damaged car would never pencil out CO2 savings because the battery would be swapped out long before the 60K miles savings threshold.

This was just addressed a few posts before this one

Electric Car thread

An EV commercial that wins them all, hands down! YouTube video Ram's new (coming soon) electric truck. Article Except their EV Truck (which is just an electrified Ram, doesn't look like a whole new platform), won't be out until late 2024 (commercial even says 'Coming Late 2024'... which is...

electricbikereview.com

Lots of special interests needing to bash EVs

If you dislike/disapprove or fear EVs, these articles feed your Bias.
If you have been a long time EV user you know better.

 

[Dorkyman]

This was just addressed a few posts before this one

Electric Car thread

An EV commercial that wins them all, hands down! YouTube video Ram's new (coming soon) electric truck. Article Except their EV Truck (which is just an electrified Ram, doesn't look like a whole new platform), won't be out until late 2024 (commercial even says 'Coming Late 2024'... which is...

electricbikereview.com

Lots of special interests needing to bash EVs

If you dislike/disapprove or fear EVs, these articles feed your Bias.
If you have been a long time EV user you know better.

Lots of EV bashing, yes. Also lots of EV religion around.

As with all religions, lots of faith-based beliefs. Which can make logical pros-and-cons discussion impossible. Like asking a Lutheran to debate a Muslim. Can't.

And sorry, didn't read every post in the thread, must have missed that one.

 

[Mulezen]

I really should have added "/s" to the conclusion of my post, shouldn't I.

/s is unnecessary…I see it so often now in comments in the Washington Post. One gets it or not like a New Yorker cartoon which I admit to often not getting.

 

[scrambler]

Lots of EV bashing, yes. Also lots of EV religion around.

As with all religions, lots of faith-based beliefs. Which can make logical pros-and-cons discussion impossible. Like asking a Lutheran to debate a Muslim. Can't.

And sorry, didn't read every post in the thread, must have missed that one.

That is exactly the difference.
You have long time EV owners who know exactly what they are talking about from firsthand experience, and you have the special interests that have no actual knowledge or experience, just special interests.

We can leave it at that

 

[Readytoride]

Lots of EV bashing, yes. Also lots of EV religion around.

As with all religions, lots of faith-based beliefs. Which can make logical pros-and-cons discussion impossible. Like asking a Lutheran to debate a Muslim. Can't.

Religions are ideology. Electric vehicles are fact. The former you can't see, touch, or smell (well, maybe that's debatable because a lot may say religions as a whole do stink. On the other hand, many laud the emotional benefits while completely ignoring any whiff of the olfactory) because they are cerebral only. The latter are physical and subject to the laws of nature, science, and government.

Bashing is often done out of ignorance, or hate, or fear, or greed, or attempts to keep the status quo despite the inevitable looming changes being brought about by shifting priorities. It often tends to rely upon either misinformation or a gathering of slanted (sometimes even untrue) intel from questionable sources that may offer only a narrow, vague selected version of facts that are less fact than they are conjecture.

Bashing does seem to emulate religion at times. I'll give you that.

Facts on my electric car(s) from a half decade of ownership: Insurance costs are due to new manufacture and more expensive car bodies, not the battery, just as insurance isn't focused on a combustion engine. (My insurance company told me this so I assume they know what they are talking about.) Batteries last as long, if not longer, than 100k miles, and unlike a combustion engine don't wear out internal parts or rust away. (Manufacturers statement.) Batteries are fairly easily recycled and, by their very nature, suitable to a wide range of many different energy storage applications, unlike a car combustion engine which has a very finite usage that is narrowly defined. (Secondary market declarations for solar backup systems, and from talking to the head of the service department of a dealership I know that has had to service EV batteries either by swapping out cells or replacing the battery as a whole. They said the whole swap batteries are sent directly back to the mfr for evaluation, breakdown, and recycling). Batteries are not being discarded into landfills. (Per our local county landfill which has said under no circumstances would a EV battery be accepted. They only accept 12v batteries, and those are collected for recycling. I asked them about EV batteries when I was at the landfill 3 days ago. It was a very informative conversation aided by the fact that I was the sole vehicle in line at the entry window at that time and the staff was happy to relax and shoot the breeze with me about electric cars.)

I've asked, directly to the source or as close a representative as possible, on the aspects of the above because I'm interested in the growing technology and the infrastructure surrounding it.

And I do recognize a pile of manure when I see it. I've owned horses for over 50 years. Fact. I've been a writer for over 50 years as well. Another fact. I can smell manure when it's presented in print, and that article reeked of it.

 

[scrambler]

And I do recognize a pile of manure when I see it. I've owned horses for over 50 years. Fact. I've been a writer for over 50 years as well. Another fact. I can smell manure when it's presented in print, and that article reeked of it.

You do have to develop a nose for biased articles with an agenda these days if you want to have a chance at reality....
I wish they would create a mandatory school and university curriculum to teach people how to navigate today's endless list of traps society sets for them, especially around disinformation, manipulation scams and abuse.

Finland is one of the only countries that not only recognized the issue early on, but took it seriously enough to do something about it since 2014, and it does appear to help

Finland is winning the war on fake news. Other nations want the blueprint

Russia's neighbor has developed a plan for countering misinformation. Can it be exported to the rest of the world?

www.cnn.com

 

[Readytoride]

Article on J.B Straubel, former CTO of Tesla, about his new venture in battery recycling.

Former Tesla CTO speaks out on issue with rise in production of EVs: 'It would fundamentally be impossible'

JB Straubel, former Tesla CTO, has set out on his own into an industry he sees as vital for the future: battery recycling.

www.thecooldown.com

Technology Review article on battery recycling

This is where Tesla’s former CTO thinks battery recycling is headed

JB Straubel speaks about his company, Redwood Materials, and what challenges loom for batteries.

www.technologyreview.com

 

[6zfshdb]

Like others who have poster in this thread, I'm not against EV's per se but I'm not ready to jump on the band wagon just yet.

My biggest concern is long term power outages, particularly during wide spread disaster events like hurricanes or wildfires. Fossil fuels can be imported into these hard hit areas via truck or pipeline. Electricity can't when the grid has sustained major damage. How are police, fire, EMT personnel and the general population going to get around if they can't recharge their vehicles? Sure, generators can be used at police, fire and EMT stations, but will every person with an EV have to maintain their own generator? What will power these generators when fossil fuels are a thing of the past?

I live in an area prone to frequent power outages which sometimes last a week or more. I have a small portable generator which will power the fridge, furnace, small appliances and a few lights. It's not large enough to effectively charge an EV for every day use. Were I to get an EV, will I need to install solar or wind generators and a large battery bank too? If so, that will make for a huge investment!

I'm sure all these problems will be worked out over time but the push to convert to electric transportation seems to be well ahead of any solutions.

 

[kevinmccune]

Do not overthink this ,ICEs are not going away anytime soon this rush to" greeness" is a "flash in the pan" so to speak, cooler heads will prevail, what happens when the fossil fuel storage tanks run dry? There seems to be net carbon free fuel in the offing( which of course will have some fossil fuel ties) why not a little of both? A little solar to meet your emergency electricity needs an efficient ICE transport or truck for the times you need it and the "state of emergency" has not confiscated all the fuel supplies. True there are some that ill advisidly jumped into the 'deep end" of carbon free or even nuclear energy just hoping someething would click and catchup(Merkle heres looking at you) it reminds me of the parable about a man being exorcised of a very bad demon without anything filling the void, when the original demon came back( because the house was clean) it brought worse things with it and the Man was worse off then before. I would love solar panels and an EV, I can afford neither, so I will have to wait, someday maybe I can have these things,I do know the feeling of being without gasoline as well.

 

[GizmoEV]

I'm sure all these problems will be worked out over time but the push to convert to electric transportation seems to be well ahead of any solutions.

The push to electric transportation has become ridiculous. It is to the point where it will continue, just let people decide when/if they want to get an EV. It will happen in time, and give the grid a chance to build-out the necessary capacity and infrastructure. EVs aren't for everyone in every situation. I've been driving an EV since 2006. I was the first one to upgrade my Gizmo EV (see my profile pic) to use LiFePO4 batteries. My physics degree gives me an understanding and background of the innerworkings of EVs which many don't have. It also helps me see BS in articles like the one cited several posts above. I currently have two EVs, both 200+ mile range vehicles. I also have a diesel pickup for various reasons, mostly to pull my travel trailer. It is the right tool for the job. When my daughter needed a new car, I counseled her to look for a gas-only vehicle, given her current situation. She found the right tool for the job. If an EV would have done what she needed, I would have suggested it, but it couldn't do what she needed right now.

One of the things the huge push to EVs is doing to some people is that I meet many who say they won't ever get an EV as long as they are being pushed/coerced to get one.

 

[scrambler]

I am not sure what push we are speaking of here. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy an EV today....
Long term goals are being announced, but this is just in order to accelerate the necessary developments.

 

[GizmoEV]

I am not sure what push we are speaking of here. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy an EV today....
Long term goals are being announced, but this is just in order to accelerate the necessary developments.

Things like the ban on the sale of new ICE vehicles, the various money incentives to get people to buy EVs, people telling others, in various ways, that they are somehow bad people if they don't embrace an emissions free transportation. Naturally, everyone won't see thing the same way, but when I run into people feeling coerced, the message is not doing what it is intended to.

 

[scrambler]

Things like the ban on the sale of new ICE vehicles

These are future goals, we all know nothing will happen unless there is a workable and sustainable system in place. I see them as incentive that we need to work in that direction

the various money incentives to get people to buy EVs

Incentives/subsidies have been used for decades for all sort of things, (the biggest recipient of subsidies today is still the oil industry). I find a lot of benefits in using electricity for transportation, so I see no problem with putting incentive on its development. Solar has had incentive for many years and that has helped the development of the technology and lowered its cost which believe was a good thing.

people telling others, in various ways, that they are somehow bad people if they don't embrace an emissions free transportation.

That is the result of the extreme polarization of our current societies. Polarization that has been engineered by special interests over the last decades, so they can more easily manipulate the population. This is a major issue that is progressively moving today's societies toward authoritarianism and something that is definitely a major concern.

 

[GizmoEV]

A goal would be to have people choose to no longer purchase ICE vehicles, legislating a ban is a completely different thing, not a goal, and is a definite dis-incentive for a large portion of the population. The best incentive would be to stop subsidizing the oil industry and the EV industry, among others.

Polarization that has been engineered by special interests over the last decades, so they can more easily manipulate the population. This is a major issue that is progressively moving today's societies toward authoritarianism and something that is definitely a major concern.

I agree. Too many are voting/choosing based on emotion and not critical thinking, this is where the social engineering has been working too well. FWIW, I see the ICE sales ban as an authoritarian move. I think a much better and long-lasting approach is the education approach.

 

[scrambler]

I think a much better and long-lasting approach is the education approach.

I am 100% for education.
That is assuming the special interests won't ban the books needed for that education

 

[kevinmccune]

A goal would be to have people choose to no longer purchase ICE vehicles, legislating a ban is a completely different thing, not a goal, and is a definite dis-incentive for a large portion of the population. The best incentive would be to stop subsidizing the oil industry and the EV industry, among others.

I agree. Too many are voting/choosing based on emotion and not critical thinking, this is where the social engineering has been working too well. FWIW, I see the ICE sales ban as an authoritarian move. I think a much better and long-lasting approach is the education approach.

I want an EV for its advantages, it would be a very rare instance in my situation were 200 miles wouldn't suffice for me.

 

[PDoz]

Like others who have poster in this thread, I'm not against EV's per se but I'm not ready to jump on the band wagon just yet.

My biggest concern is long term power outages, particularly during wide spread disaster events like hurricanes or wildfires. Fossil fuels can be imported into these hard hit areas via truck or pipeline. Electricity can't when the grid has sustained major damage. How are police, fire, EMT personnel and the general population going to get around if they can't recharge their vehicles? Sure, generators can be used at police, fire and EMT stations, but will every person with an EV have to maintain their own generator? What will power these generators when fossil fuels are a thing of the past?

I live in an area prone to frequent power outages which sometimes last a week or more. I have a small portable generator which will power the fridge, furnace, small appliances and a few lights. It's not large enough to effectively charge an EV for every day use. Were I to get an EV, will I need to install solar or wind generators and a large battery bank too? If so, that will make for a huge investment!

I'm sure all these problems will be worked out over time but the push to convert to electric transportation seems to be well ahead of any solutions.

Sounds like you need a phev with vehicle to grid ( or just load) capability - a well maintained generator on wheels, hooked up to a decent battery and the capacity to support your home during those power outages ? Preferably with several recharge options - solar and wind?

It's a scenrio I worry about - prolonged bush fires reduce solar . The drid is down due to fires taking out power lines. The windy days are the ones we need to evacuate , so the phev isn't going to be hooked up to the wind generator. AND the fuel stations are the last place I want to be when the embers are dropping....

Last big burn we had around here effectively closed road transport for months. Just as covid hit... A nearby town became reliant on the navy dropping supplies / evacuating residents because there were hundreds of km of road blocked by fallen timber - even the army couldn't get through. No power for months, not enough fuel so the generators ran dry . This was when people started taking phev vehicles with v2g capacity seriously. Still far from an easy option to set up, but food for thought.