Do you really need to torque a through axle?

oh and also...
Bolts for BSA cranksets come with threadlock. Grease would defeat the purpose.
Only on the Chinesium cheapass kind. Even then the cheapies are about 50/50 on Amazon, and none of the quality replacements have it. Also none of the self-extractor upgrades. All I did was go to Amazon and search for 'bicycle crank bolt' so you can do the same search.

Then I went to JensonUSA - a quality bicycle parts supplier and did a search on 'crank bolt'. I found four. No thread locker.

Lets try Performance Bike... They have thread locker for what look like M12 bolts for something called a 'MegaExo' crank. But the M8 bolts for square-taper... no again.

Lets google the part directly:
  • Rene Herse: No.
  • Phil Wood: No.
  • Sugino: No.
  • FSA, Truvativ and Problem Solvers: No, No and... No.
 
oh and also...

Only on the Chinesium cheapass kind. Even then the cheapies are about 50/50 on Amazon, and none of the quality replacements have it. Also none of the self-extractor upgrades. All I did was go to Amazon and search for 'bicycle crank bolt' so you can do the same search.

Then I went to JensonUSA - a quality bicycle parts supplier and did a search on 'crank bolt'. I found four. No thread locker.
It's as of your Park video said to put cement blocks in your trunk for winter traction, and I said it wouldn't work for my Beetle because the trunk is in the front. So you google pictures of cars with the trunk in back and say the problem is that Beetles were made of no-name Chinese parts.

When I searched JohnsonUSA, I found 10 on the first page alone. The SRAM crank bolts have visible threadlocker. Is that a brand to avoid?

Only 2 resemble BSA bolts, but there's not a word of description. Ordering a bolt for a BSA BB or a Beetle would be foolish on the basis of a photo with no indication of diameter, pitch, length, or grade.

They could be BSA bolts. If there's no threadlocker on the far side, the concerned user could still apply it, provided the bolt wasn't greasy. I think all 4 videos warn that these bolts could loosen, and as Park says about BB shells, sometimes torquing isn't enough.
 
It's as of your Park video said to put cement blocks in your trunk for winter traction, and I said it wouldn't work for my Beetle because the trunk is in the front. So you google pictures of cars with the trunk in back and say the problem is that Beetles were made of no-name Chinese parts.

When I searched JohnsonUSA, I found 10 on the first page alone. The SRAM crank bolts have visible threadlocker. Is that a brand to avoid?

Only 2 resemble BSA bolts, but there's not a word of description. Ordering a bolt for a BSA BB or a Beetle would be foolish on the basis of a photo with no indication of diameter, pitch, length, or grade.

They could be BSA bolts. If there's no threadlocker on the far side, the concerned user could still apply it, provided the bolt wasn't greasy. I think all 4 videos warn that these bolts could loosen, and as Park says about BB shells, sometimes torquing isn't enough.
I'm not really all that interested in this "only-on-the-internet kind of argument" but I have to wonder about the thread locker you say you can see one the bolts at, guessing: Jenson USA? Is it labeled thread locker? I haven't looked very hard, but the pics I've seen are in black and white, so how do you know what you see is not grease?

TT
 
A professional installation of crankarms includes anti-seize. The reason is simple to understand. The Park series of bicycle maintenance tutorials are the gold standard for professional-level instruction. Do they stand alone in this or is it something that is more or less common knowledge among people who do this sort of thing? I went to Youtube and searched for 'bicycle crankarm installation' and ran down the list.

I could go on but thats plenty of time to waste on this only-on-the-internet kind of argument.
I like to grease threads. I said in this case it would defeat the purpose of the threadlock that came on my bolts. Why do you argue?

I like those guys because they don't practice what they preach. All start by saying to use a 50 Nm torque wrench, but all do it by feel, using only what torque I would. One chokes up on his long allen key, as I would. Another uses a ratchet made of sheet steel with square edges, which means he can't turn very hard. They're not using torque wrench readings, and they're not afraid of the bolt coming unscrewed. Grease, by all means! Personally, I'd prefer anti-seize. Are you lumping them together?

I went to Fastenal Engineering for specs on Grade 8 5/16 -24. They don't grease threads because they rely on torque wrenches. Dry and zinc-coated, one of these bolts will take up to 38 Nm. Anti-seizes and threadlockers act the same, bringing the bolt to max load with only 31 Nm. Light lube such as cutting oil could bring it down to 28 Nm. Grease is hard to predict. A mere 16 Nm could ruin a bolt, or it could withstand 38. The three guys in the videos used grease, not anti-seize or threadlocker. That was okay as they went by feel and not torque.

Those are the torques that will damage the bolt. The usual recommendation for preload is 75%. The 21 Nm limit of my 5/16 allen key would be just about right with anti-seize, threadlocker, or thin oil, but pulling that 11.5 cm lever could ruin the bolt if I greased it.

When I replaced my BB, I had to replace my crank set so my chain ring would line up. I used the bolts that came with the new cranks. One pedal kept loosening. I assumed the bolt was unscrewing. I'd check the bolt several times a day. It stayed tight until suddenly the crank was wobbly and 6mm farther from the BB than it had been. It dawned on me that the threads were jumping as if stripped. The diameter was almost precisely the same as the OEM bolt, but if I ran my thumb the length of the bolt, the threads didn't feel as sharp.

The OEM bolt solved my problem, but it was only recently that I found out what had stripped the new one. The bicycle industry sprang from the textile industry in England and New England. Hence the industry standard BSA BB with its 5/16 -24 bolts. California self-styled bicycle mechanics couldn't distinguish them from M8 x 1. In using cheap Chinese parts to start bicycle companies, they ordered M8 x 1 instead of 5/16 -24. After all, the diameter was only 28 microns bigger and the pitch 58 microns smaller. The difference accumulated with each revolution so that screwing in the bolt deformed the threads and they lost much of their holding power.

In Shangahi, my bike was manufactured with proper 5/16 -24 bolts, but in California, it seems nobody knew how to use a thread gauge. That seems to be why bicycle companies adopted torque specs that would distort threads and parts distributers ordered M8 x 1 bolts with threadlocker already applied.

You say you know how to find quality bolts. Do you know of any American dealer who knows that BSA crank bolts are 5/16 -24?
 
Can I assume guys you are not riding quality e-bikes? :) This thread is about applying the torque to thru-axles on Specialized e-bikes (in case you missed that).

The summary: the practical torque on a Specialized thru-axle does not need to exceed 12 Nm. A torque wrench is a good idea. No greasing or anti-seize paste are required on the thru-axle (and nothing needs to be applied to Praxis mid-motor self-extracting crankarms) :)

Confirmed by the mileage of 16,563 km on my Vado SL, and 24,571 km on my full power Vado.
 
and nothing needs to be applied to Praxis mid-motor self-extracting crankarms)
Did yours not come with some grease or antiseize paste already applied? The Praxis crank arms I installed a few weeks ago did.

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Did yours not come with some grease or antiseize paste already applied? The Praxis crank arms I installed a few weeks ago did.
I bought my replacement crankarm via a Specialized LBS. The techie told me to never remove the outer ring (using a cassette tool). I was told just to mate the female thread of the crankarm on the motor spindle thread, use an 8 mm hex key and rotate clockwise until the rotation stopped :)
 
Can I assume guys you are not riding quality e-bikes? :) This thread is about applying the torque to thru-axles on Specialized e-bikes (in case you missed that).

The summary: the practical torque on a Specialized thru-axle does not need to exceed 12 Nm. A torque wrench is a good idea. N
My recent post about measuring torque was in response to your first reply in this thread:
"If you take a regular 6 mm hex wrench, hold it 1/3rd length (counting from the axle), and use the usual hand force, it is enough to tighten the axle properly."

I didn't know what kind of wrench you were talking about. I didn't know how you could call an H6 with such a long handle "regular." However, it reminded me that standard-length ISO and SAE allen keys are torque wrenches. I didn't know what torque the H8 would deliver, so I tested it. It was half the torque recommended by the bike manufacturer, but when I researched to bolt, I found that the wrench was right and the bicycle people were wrong.

The standard H6 has a 92mm handle, which calibrates it to provide 10 Nm as you reach the threshold of pain. The OP asked if he needed a torque wrench. A standard H6 is ideal for something like that. If an engineer designs an allen bolt for 10 Nm, he'll normally make it for an H6 key.

Quality is defined as whatever the customer wants, and I don't want a Specialist. I'd have to modify it too much to get the stability, leg efficiency, and comfort I crave. Nor would I want a bike from a company that thinks I should get a torque wrench. In that respect, the pre-1960s English bikes had high quality. The tool kits were mostly a couple of multipurpose wrenches stamped from sheet steel, but the bikes were designed so that the limited torque was enough. i doubt I could get more than 10 Nm on the nuts that clamped the dropouts to the back wheel. A mm of slippage would have put the wheel out of alignment with the frame. I don't recall any such trouble in thousands of miles.
 
,.. I didn't know what torque the H8 would deliver, so I tested it.

I didn't know what torque my H8 on my Crank Brothers multi-tool or I could deliver, but I wanted to get up to 35 foot pounds for my crank bolts, so I tested it.

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It's got a 3½" handle so it took A Lot of pressure to get to 35 foot pounds.

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The bolt head in the tool left a dent in my hand that lasted half the day but I know that both my tool and hand won't break delivering 35 foot pounds 😂

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A folding set came with my bike. I couldn't tell how much torque I was applying. With an allen key, the only contact area is along the long arm. With a smaller H size, both the diameter and the length are smaller, meaning it starts to hurt with less torque. It doesn't require math; when it starts to hurt, that's probably as tight as the engineer intended.

I've found ordinary combination wrenches safer than sockets for tightening because the length depends on the fastener size, and pressing the end of the wrench can make it uncomfortable to push too hard. I put a couple screws into a board to see about Nm. Stand the board on a scale, zero it, press down on the wrench until the pressure becomes unpleasant, read the scale, and calculate Nm. My 17mm is good for 30 Nm. The manufacturer recommends 40-45 for the 17mm rear axle nuts, but I think the list was compiled by marketing types who measured what it took to break those connectors loose; that's often a lot more torque than was used at the factory.
wrench check.jpeg
 
I think a worm is eating your brain.

According to you, if a 10 yo girl and a 35 yo Arnold Schwarzenegger both tighten a bolt with same "proper" (according to you) wrench until it starts to hurt they will both stop at the same (correct) torque?!
 
According to you, if a 10 yo girl and a 35 yo Arnold Schwarzenegger both tighten a bolt with same "proper" (according to you) wrench until it starts to hurt they will both stop at the same (correct) torque?!

Yes. That is correct.

A girl can do this on her mountain bike,..

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But Stephan, as a full grown man, can not do that.

I'll bet that girl is every bit as tough as Stephan and could probably kick his ass at any gravel race he was competing in.
And she could do it no-hands !!


I'll bet that girl is way more inclined to over torque a bolt than Stephan, so Stephan would need a Specialized Tool to make sure that he is strong enough.

The girl doesn't need a special torque wrench. She's just got a regular bike, and regular tools work just fine. 😂
 
My 17mm is good for 30 Nm

My axle has 18mm nuts and is torqued to 30-35 Nm

My car has 10, 12, 14, 17 and 21mm nut and bolt sizes.

The torque for the different 14mm nuts and bolts range from 40 Nm to 90 Nm depending on the application.

I never bothered with a torque wrench on my car.
I just caked all the nuts and bolts with anti-seize and cranked them on "Farmer Tight" 😂
 
My axle has 18mm nuts and is torqued to 30-35 Nm

My car has 10, 12, 14, 17 and 21mm nut and bolt sizes.

The torque for the different 14mm nuts and bolts range from 40 Nm to 90 Nm depending on the application.

I never bothered with a torque wrench on my car.
I just caked all the nuts and bolts with anti-seize and cranked them on "Farmer Tight" 😂
Combination wrenches are insurance for "farmer tight."
In 1982 I installed a replacement water pump on a 1964 Wilcat. I used a 3/8 ratchet to secure it with 7/16 nuts on studs. My uncle was watching. He must have been over 60 when he retired from the Air Force. He knew his stuff. On the first nut of my final round, he said I was overetorquing and I knew he was right. At 35 I was pretty embarrassed, but I was grateful. I backed it off and tightened again.

Normally, I'd use a combination wrench or 1/4 ratchet on nuts that small. I could do it with the bigger drive, but I'd blundered. If I'd used a suitable combination wrench, tightening a 7/16 would have felt like tightening a bigger one.
 
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I'll bet that girl is way more inclined to over torque a bolt than Stephan
She looks as strong as a horse! In that case she needs Allen keys. Like the bit of a bridle, an Allen key communicates through minor pain.

In 1909, many factories still used overhead shafts to power machines through belts. The heads of set screws on pulley collars were dangerous. In 1911, Standard Pressed Steel of Philadelphia found a way to make square sockets in headless set screws. There was no market for square sockets because in 1909, William G. Allen had done the same thing with hex sockets. Standard Pressed Steel followed suit.

In some industrial applications, hex socket cap screws began to replace cap screws that had been turned by external wrenches. Mechanics didn't like it because there were a lot more Allen key sizes. These screws became very common in American defense industries in WWII.

The reason was the Allen wrench, which he never patented. It was originally for set screws. Proper torque was vital because with no head, lock washer, or safety wire, it depended entirely on thread friction to keep it from loosening. The short, hard, thin handle of an Allen wrench will bite when you reach its design torque. Over the course of a century, more and more designers saw the advantage of Allen-head screws, to make proper torque almost unavoidable.
 
Peter just needs a torque wrench.

Maybe Vinny's girlfriend can lend him hers?

He can borrow my new torque wrench. Its very special. 😂

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I'm still gunna screw up cuz I gotta convert in-lbs to Nm.
Math sucks. 😂

I think you double it and add 32 to convert, but only if it's below freezing?
 
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