Delite Gen 4 Rohloff Speed vs Cadence

[E14Delite]

Just thought I would try and quantify relationship between Speed and Cadence for my Gen4 Rohloff Delite. I have used 2260mm circumference for my Schwalbe Moto X with 60 tooth chain ring and 19 tooth pinion for calcs. Rohloff Ratios from here https://www.cyclemonkey.com/blog/calculating-gear-ratios-rohloff-speedhub. Perhaps someone can confirm these ratios are accurate.

I have not found a power curve plot for the Gen4 Bosch motors but this might be helpful to read in conjunction if one is available.

We have 25 kmh nominal limit "downunder" so this fits in with cycling in 11th- 12th gear at around cadence of 60 - 70 which is my experience. I have yet to get to cadence of 90 in 14th gear, I do have a downhill section but it is prone to having cars emerge from side streets so I don't think I will check this out .

Cheers Stephen




which is my experience.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

According to the R&M website the 2020 Superdelite Rohloff's highest gearing is 10.15 metres. That is the distance travelled for one revolution of the pedals.

Multiply the gearing by your cadence to find out how far you will travel in one minute… and multiply that by 60 to find the distance travelled in one hour (your speed).

For example, to find out how fast your Superdelite can go in top gear…

• 10.15 m x 80 (cadence) = 812 m travelled in 1 minute
• 812 m x 60 (minutes in an hour) = 48.7 km/h (at a pedalling cadence of 80)

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Gearing for R&M Superdelite with Rohloff …

1. 1.9 m
2. 2.2 m
3. 2.5 m
4. 2.8 m
5. 3.2 m
6. 3.7 m
7. 4.1 m
8. 4.7 m
9. 5.4 m
10. 6.1 m
11. 6.9 m
12. 7.9 m
13. 8.9 m
14. 10.15 m

Remember:

• This gearing is the distance travelled for one revolution of the pedals.
• Multiply the gearing by your pedalling cadence (RPM) to find out how far you travel in one minute.
• Multiply the distance per minute by 60 to give distance per hour (your speed).

 

[E14Delite]

Hi Dave,

Yes my graph gives 55.54 kmh at cadence of 90 and my calcs give 10.47 metres per revolution in top gear. Not a significant difference so perhaps related to variations in the tyre circumference used.

The original circumference I used was based on this data.

For Schwalbe Super Moto-X 27.5 (62-584): 2260mm

The Schwalbe Tech info quotes 2240mm for 60 x 584 so if I use that it gives 56kmh at 90 cadence in top gear.

I note that my Kiox speed reading is somewhat higher than the speed reading on my GPS and was about 5% faster on delivery. I have altered the wheel circumference down to the minimum on the Kiox but Kiox still reads slightly faster than the GPS. The wheel circumference range on the Kiox is from 2080mm to 2289mm and on delivery may have been set to around 2190mm which gives the 10.15 metres you reference. My bike was built with Rock Razor tyres which I changed to Moto-X so not sure of the variation in circumference between these two tyres. It would seem that if I specify the smallest tyre circumference on the Kiox I will maximise the speed available before cut out but in my case am still within the speed limit restrictions as measured by GPS.

I think we both have a similar answer for 90 cadence in top gear but I suspect that on the road you may have got closer to that than me.

Do you have a link for the R&M gearing info?


Cheers Stephen

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Do you have a link for the R&M gearing info?

Stephen …

• Navigate R&M's website to the Superdelite page.
• Choose the version GT Rohloff (or other).
• Scroll down to the bottom of the page until you find the "Superdelite GT Rohloff in Numbers".
• It's hidden in there (bottom of centre column).

… David

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Rohloff's 526% range …

• There is approximately 13% change between each of the Rohloff gears.
• #11 is the 'direct drive'. The wheel turns at the same rate as its sprocket.

1. 28 %
2. 32 %
3. 36 %
4. 41 %
5. 46 %
6. 53 %
7. 60 %
8. 68 %
9. 78 %
10. 88 %
11. 100 %
12. 114 %
13. 129 %
14. 147 %

Examples:

• #1 — wheel turns at 28% of the rear sprocket's speed (granny gear).
• #11 — wheel turns at same rate as rear sprocket.
• #14 — wheel turns at 147% of rear sprocket's speed (highest gear).

Remember:

• These percentages apply to every Rohloff hub on any bike.
• The gearing in metres (my first post) is specific to the Superdelite with supplied tyre.

 

[E14Delite]

Hi David,

Yes perhaps I have some differences due to the Rohloff Ratios that I referenced in the link in my original thread. They suggest total overall range is actually 526% and quote these specific figures below which are the ones I have used .

So my calculations and graph were based on the ratio of chain ring to pinion (60/19) x the gear ratios (as below) x the tyre circumference (mm/1000) x the cadence (per min) x 60 (to convert to hours)

So for a 2240 mm circumference this gives me 56 km in 14th gear at cadence of 90.

For all practical purposes our numbers are the same but perhaps the 526% range for the ratios I have used may not be accurate. I did query originally whether these numbers might be correct so maybe a Rohloff expert can advise.

I thought the graphical representation in conjunction with a Gen 4 power curve might assist in identifying a range of gears vs speed best suited to an individual's average cadence. Sometimes I find myself in too lower gear to get optimum performance from the motor. I guess more experience will sort this out.

Cheers Stephen

Gear #	Internal Ratio
1	0.279
2	0.316
3	0.360
4	0.409
5	0.464
6	0.528
7	0.600
8	0.682
9	0.774
10	0.881
11	1.000
12	1.135
13	1.292
14	1.467

The overall gear range of the SPEEDHUB is 526% (1.467/0.279), which is quite wide, and wider than most current derailleur systems. This means that there is a larger difference between the easiest and hardest gears when using a Rohloff hub compared to most derailleur-equipped bikes. You can choose wether the additional range is on the high end, low end, or split the difference based on the choice of front and rear sprocket sizes.

 

[SteveBorough]

I just spent my 1st weekend with my Riese & Muller Superdelite GT Rohloff HS and love it. I'm a fit 200lbs and have trouble getting the bike up to 28mph. Running through all gears on flat pavement, I can get to 20 - 22 mph with ease however, 25 - 28mph seems to be difficult to impossible without really working hard. I took it back to the store and wasn't really given an answer/solution. Wondering if anyone else is experiencing this with a similar config. My understanding is HS (w/ Rohloff) should get me to 28mph with moderate effort and you'd have to work to go any faster

 

[17Stratton]

I just spent my 1st weekend with my Riese & Muller Superdelite GT Rohloff HS and love it. I'm a fit 200lbs and have trouble getting the bike up to 28mph. Running through all gears on flat pavement, I can get to 20 - 22 mph with ease however, 25 - 28mph seems to be difficult to impossible without really working hard. I took it back to the store and wasn't really given an answer/solution. Wondering if anyone else is experiencing this with a similar config. My understanding is HS (w/ Rohloff) should get me to 28mph with moderate effort and you'd have to work to go any faster

I used to have Supercharger Rohloff and I had same experience. It is hard work keeping the bike at 28. She's a heavy bike and Bosch not built for top speed. I have since purchased a Stromer and keeping 28 sooo much easier. Of course Stromer built for urban speed while Delite more of a tour bike imo.

 

[SteveBorough]

I'm guessing Riese & Muller tune the power curves like that, its just weird how much assist drops off at 20mph even with a HS 28mph bike. I can get to 20 with little effort, 3 -5 mph more is a world apart in effort. This feels like the regular CX powerline curve and I don't understand what I paid $500 more for!

 

[E14Delite]

Hi Steve,

Not sure if there is a power curve posted for the standard Gen4 Bosch and its HS version but certainly this comparison graph would suggest that the Bosch CX compares favourably with other options. If peak power assist is between a cadence of 70 and 100 and 28mph is approx 44 km hour you will need to do whatever additional work is required to pedal at a cadence of around 71-72. You will need to contribute a lot more effort of your own to achieve this speed at a lower cadence. So assuming this power curve is correct and using the cadence plot if you wish to pedal consistently on the flat at 28mph you should perhaps be in 12th or 13th gear to get the maximum contribution from the motor. In Australia our ebikes are speed limited to 25 kmh so I do get a good workout pedalling above 25 kmh. I can enjoy the hills up to 25 kmh and have no desire to come to grief at any speed but certainly not faster than 25 kmh. So from my perspective if there was an option for bypassing the speed limit on a Gen4 I would not go down that track.

In the current circumstances my e14 Delite is getting a lot of use. For other exercise I can also play golf with strict social distancing arrangements in place.
If you have a look at the statistics for Australia on the John Hopkins World Map I think the co-ordinated leadership shown at both State and Federal Level has contributed to this outcome.

Coronavirus Information

hub.jhu.edu

I do suspect on review that a significant % of our imported cases will have come via the USA so perhaps such a review will indicate we should have closed our borders to the US earlier.

Those that say this pandemic could not have been predicted perhaps should have been watching the Netflix documentary Pandemic rather than cable news.

Those of you in New York are really in the front line so to all of you, particularly the health workers, stay safe and stay the distance.

Stephen from Sydney Australia

 

[Alaskan]

I just spent my 1st weekend with my Riese & Muller Superdelite GT Rohloff HS and love it. I'm a fit 200lbs and have trouble getting the bike up to 28mph. Running through all gears on flat pavement, I can get to 20 - 22 mph with ease however, 25 - 28mph seems to be difficult to impossible without really working hard. I took it back to the store and wasn't really given an answer/solution. Wondering if anyone else is experiencing this with a similar config. My understanding is HS (w/ Rohloff) should get me to 28mph with moderate effort and you'd have to work to go any faster

What assist level are you using?

I have a 2019 Homage Rohloff HS with the Gen 2 Bosch HS class 3 motor and a Trek Allant 9.9s with the new gen 4 speed motor. I weigh 215 and turn 70 this year. For that duration in sport mode I can easily sustain 20-24 mph for a half hour or more. To go at 24-27 on a sustained basis I need to go up to turbo. Again, going long and fast In tour 17-20 and Eco 13-17

 

[SteveBorough]

What assist level are you using?

I have a 2019 Homage Rohloff HS with the Gen 2 Bosch HS class 3 motor and a Trek Allant 9.9s with the new gen 4 speed motor. I weigh 215 and turn 70 this year. For that duration in sport mode I can easily sustain 20-24 mph for a half hour or more. To go at 24-27 on a sustained basis I need to go up to turbo. Again, going long and fast In tour 17-20 and Eco 13-17

On Turbo, just went for another ride to confirm, got to 28mph once, on flat pavement it took everything I had in me! Is the $500+ HS option a gimmick?

 

[E14Delite]

Yes good point as the power setting will have a major effect of the assistance level for any speed up to the speed limit. I did assume that to get the most assist in the appropriate gear the motor would be in Turbo mode.

This "Stephen" is generally using Tour or Eco for local touring with the speed limitation of 25 kmh. I can generally get up most of the local hills at 25kmh in 9th gear but certainly easier in MTB/Turbo.

I do have a few years on you Alaskan so perhaps Turbo becomes compulsory we hit 80. (Years not speed)

With the non HS version not sure I could maintain 28mph on the flat but will give it a try.

Cheers Stephen

 

[E14Delite]

On Turbo, just went for another ride to confirm, got to 28mph once, on flat pavement it took everything I had in me! Is the $500+ HS option a gimmick?

Hi Steve,

What gear were you in at 28 mph??

 

[SteveBorough]

Hi Steve,

What gear were you in at 28 mph??

I think 10 or 11, will test again and pay closer attention but I tried quite a few gears, reviewing Bosch connect, cadence was ~110;

 

[Johnny]

I'm guessing Riese & Muller tune the power curves like that, its just weird how much assist drops off at 20mph even with a HS 28mph bike. I can get to 20 with little effort, 3 -5 mph more is a world apart in effort. This feels like the regular CX powerline curve and I don't understand what I paid $500 more for!

Steve which motor do you have? Gen 2 hs or Gen 4 hs? Are you monitoring your speed through the display or gps?

To answer your question , that additional $500 is called price discrimination, ask more from people who are willing to pay more. Speed limit is an outside variable that is there for legal purposes has nothing to do with motor capabilities.

 

[Alaskan]

To achieve the numbers I cited above. I am pedaling at a cadence of at least 75 in 13 gear in turbo. 12 gear in Sport, 11th gear in tour.

 

[E14Delite]

I think 10 or 11, will test again and pay closer attention but I tried quite a few gears, reviewing Bosch connect, cadence was ~110;

Hi Steve,

Not sure if the power curve I have used applies to your motor but if so you will be better off in a higher gear than 10 or 11 so maybe see how you go in 12th or 13th gear at 28 mph. At 110 cadence you are dropping down the power curve and I think you will get more torque using a gear that gives you a cadence on the low side of the peak rather than past peak power.

Just my thoughts so see how it goes in practice.

I see Alaskan has just posted his comments which are consistent with mine above.

Can you confirm you have the Gen4 Performance Line Speed HS version.

Cheers Stephen

 

[SteveBorough]

Steve which motor do you have? Gen 2 hs or Gen 4 hs? Are you monitoring your speed through the display or gps?

To answer your question , that additional $500 is called price discrimination, ask more from people who are willing to pay more. Speed limit is an outside variable that is there for legal purposes has nothing to do with motor capabilities.

Gen4 HS and monitoring speed through Kiox display (and Bosch connect)