That's actually pretty good range if you have the 12.8 battery. Going from 80% to roughly 30% I get 12 miles on level 3 assist. My average speed is usually around 20MPH and my moving average is probably 3-5 MPH higher. Keep in mind this is hilly New England so that takes it's toll on the battery.
Charging to 80% without a Satiator
- Thread starter Justin Fischer
- Start date
That's actually pretty good range if you have the 12.8 battery. Going from 80% to roughly 30% I get 12 miles on level 3 assist. My average speed is usually around 20MPH and my moving average is probably 3-5 MPH higher. Keep in mind this is hilly New England so that takes it's toll on the battery.
Stizz19
Member
How many AH is it?
PaD
Well-Known Member
This is what Specialized writes in the info that comes with the charger ( I just picked up a new Vado)
”Specialized recommends fully charging the battery, disconnecting the charger and letting the battery sit overnight, or about 8 hours before using the battery”
I suppose they’re talking about first charge.
What do you, ladies and gentlemen, say?
”Specialized recommends fully charging the battery, disconnecting the charger and letting the battery sit overnight, or about 8 hours before using the battery”
I suppose they’re talking about first charge.
What do you, ladies and gentlemen, say?
PaD
Well-Known Member
I choose to give my new battery a full charge.
According to the manual ( both the charger’s and the bike’s) the led on the charger should turn green when charginging is completed.
Now all five leds on the battery are flashing and the display says 100% but the still the last battery bar ( of ten) on the display is flashing and the charger’s led shines with a steady red. Has been like this for more than 30 minutes.
Should I worry?
I’m thinking there is perhaps a communication problem between charger and battery.
Edit !
Waited another couple of minutes and now the battery leds and the bike’s display turned off and eventually the chsrgers led turned green.
I will now unplugg the chareger from bike and wall outlet and go to bed.
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The protocols are different depending on the battery management system in the battery itself and the charger among different brands so I can't help BUT, the balancing of the cells can take some time and gets slower as the battery nears full capacity. I'd give it another hour or so on the charger, you can't hurt it unless there's a fault. With my hobby chargers I can monitor the voltage of each cell during a charge and the 1st 90% of the charge goes quickly but the final balancing is so slow it's painful to watch. Also, the 1st phase of charging is done with constant amperage but the last phase (about 20% of capacity) is done at constant voltage and decreasing amperage so naturally that last 10-20% takes a lot longer
PaD
Well-Known Member
You were right. It was of course the finalling balancing.
Thanks, I learned something today again
PaD
Well-Known Member
I don’t know nor do I have the knowledge to check whether the Specialized battery has a BMS capable of good balancing or not. I just have to trust them and do my first charging according to their recommendations.
From now I ride, smile and charge.
Will probably stop at 80% charge if I’m not going for a longer trip.
I do of course appreciate that Thomas J and others share their knowledge even if I’m not capable of doing exactly what they do.
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Bill Brikiatis
New Member
I have a Magnum Metro. Magnum has told me that it is best to charge the battery no more than 80%, which I already knew. Unfortunately, the supplied charger doesn't stop at 80%, which is probably necessary for the times you really do need a full charge. They suggested that I time the charging and charge it until it reaches 51.3v. I've been charging to 100% for a year now, so I'm sad that my battery may not last as long as it could have. I'm not sure how timing it will help since each time I ride I will use a different amount of power. What's a satiator. Is it worth buying?
As a new ebiker I have read what the more experienced riders here at EBR have said about batteries and charging. I am using LunaCycle Advanced 48V charger for my FLX Roadster 48V ebike. The cost was reasonable. Adding the FLX charger connector (miniXLR) to the LunaCycle charger was a simple soldering process. The Advanced charger allows me to easily set charging level at 80/90/100% and the charging rate from 1-5Amps. I ride about 25miles everyday. I charge to 80% at 1 Amp. The slow charging rate I believe is 'easiest' on the battery. Charging takes approximately 4 hours. The LunaCycle Advanced charger has been working perfectly for almost a month of daily charging.
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tomjasz
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All well and good until it comes time for warranty service. I have 3 bum "Advanced chargers". For those unable or unwilling to spend $300 on a Satiator a very inexpensive method uses a multimeter and plug-in timer. That way a $10 Liitokala Chinese charger, a $10 multimeter, and a $10 timer can achieve what the higher priced options do. Chargers are the most returned and failed product.
I bought my Satiator when they came out. For me it was a no brainer. Doubling battery life paid for it. AND ebikes.ca has a stellar warranty. As well as answering support emails in a timely manner.
How many connector adapters did you have to buy or make .. I considered buying a satiator and called them up, they did not have an adapter to fit my Yamaha 500wh battery. I'm sure I could cobble one together but it would be nice if they stocked and sold adapters for at least the more popular e-bike batteries
.. I considered buying a satiator and called them up, they did not have an adapter to fit my Yamaha 500wh battery. I'm sure I could cobble one together but it would be nice if they stocked and sold adapters for at least the more popular e-bike batteriesJeff in WA
New Member
Great thread.
I've reached out to Juice to get feedback on this thread. They responded within a day and provided the official chart that people are questioning.
I've asked to know what the cell spec for the battery is along with whether the Juiced voltage chart is for batteries at rest. Juiced quickly responded stating that these values are at rest.
I've been involved with some form of electric transport and battery storage for grid-tied battery backed PV for about 12 years or so. By no means does this make me an expert, I've just seen some bad things happen with batteries being improperly discharged/charged and getting too hot and good things when vendors keep their customers from cutting themselves.
Today, I drive a 2018 Volt. For my budget, it was the best trade off between some electric range (50-70mi) and not having to depend on charging stations, which for J1772, are being more and more dominated by Bolt and Tesla products. Anyway, being a liquid cooled and fully managed battery pack, I have no worries about the longevity or when I should and shouldn't charge. The discharge cut out for the Volt's battery is ~ 20%. The charge cut out is ~ 87%. I cannot remember the exact voltage by somewhere between the low 300vdc and 400vdc respectively. The end user has zero input into any of this so it is plug and play. The battery is 18.4kW with 14kW usable.
In 2009, I bought a Vectrix scooter, post bankruptcy for a good price. Fine machine with the exception of the hideous battery setup. So bad, it was the poor battery setup that bankrupted Vectrix. The battery manufacturer actually bought them out and the problems didn't get any better finally capitulating about 5 years ago. It didn't take long for the warranty claims to swamp Vectrix. People in places like So Cal, Arizona, Floirda, Spain, etc., and other warm climates were hit hard. The battery was air cooled with fans. This is not unlike the first Nissan Leaf battery packs that suffered in hot climates. It also had a built-in charger with its own phantom load.
The primary problems with that scooter is visible in eBikes. Namely, batteries capable of getting way too hot, discharge cut out voltages way too low or non-existent and charge voltages too high along with terrible suggestions from the manufacturer.
One thing I am curious about is why so many eBike vendors choose to use black casing for the pack. In the summer sun, the pack will just bake whether the bike is sitting in the sun or under a load in the sun. As long as the pack is in sunlight, it will take on heat. A reflective colored casing (white, silver, etc) would help mitigate absorbing some of the sun's heat.
In a way, the pack is air cooled as the bike is moving, but its not at rest. I can see why some manufacturers recommend waiting hours after charging before riding. After charging, the batteries are hot. Hitting the road will assist in degradation because they may get hotter and stay hot. Same thing when immediately charging from a hard ride. So, charge, ride (discharge), charge all within short time frames from each other can be an issue. If the batteries had a cooling source, this wouldn't be an issue.
One can argue that people are overthinking this. There is truth to it, but on the flip side, one can argue that the vendors may not be giving proper guidance, not engineering to prevent known failure states and setting up their customers for problems.
It is good to see Juice offer a charger capable of setting voltage cut out rates. Hopefully, this or another charger becomes part of the offering and not an upgrade. It is also good to see Juice have a voltage cut out limit setting on the bike.
They are thinking much more progressively than other vendors on this, just a few more steps and they'll be doing all the right things for the customer. Killing expensive batteries is a reality. It is not fake news. It is very easy to do and does not take very long regardless of chemistry.
I've reached out to Juice to get feedback on this thread. They responded within a day and provided the official chart that people are questioning.
I've asked to know what the cell spec for the battery is along with whether the Juiced voltage chart is for batteries at rest. Juiced quickly responded stating that these values are at rest.
I've been involved with some form of electric transport and battery storage for grid-tied battery backed PV for about 12 years or so. By no means does this make me an expert, I've just seen some bad things happen with batteries being improperly discharged/charged and getting too hot and good things when vendors keep their customers from cutting themselves.
Today, I drive a 2018 Volt. For my budget, it was the best trade off between some electric range (50-70mi) and not having to depend on charging stations, which for J1772, are being more and more dominated by Bolt and Tesla products. Anyway, being a liquid cooled and fully managed battery pack, I have no worries about the longevity or when I should and shouldn't charge. The discharge cut out for the Volt's battery is ~ 20%. The charge cut out is ~ 87%. I cannot remember the exact voltage by somewhere between the low 300vdc and 400vdc respectively. The end user has zero input into any of this so it is plug and play. The battery is 18.4kW with 14kW usable.
In 2009, I bought a Vectrix scooter, post bankruptcy for a good price. Fine machine with the exception of the hideous battery setup. So bad, it was the poor battery setup that bankrupted Vectrix. The battery manufacturer actually bought them out and the problems didn't get any better finally capitulating about 5 years ago. It didn't take long for the warranty claims to swamp Vectrix. People in places like So Cal, Arizona, Floirda, Spain, etc., and other warm climates were hit hard. The battery was air cooled with fans. This is not unlike the first Nissan Leaf battery packs that suffered in hot climates. It also had a built-in charger with its own phantom load.
The primary problems with that scooter is visible in eBikes. Namely, batteries capable of getting way too hot, discharge cut out voltages way too low or non-existent and charge voltages too high along with terrible suggestions from the manufacturer.
One thing I am curious about is why so many eBike vendors choose to use black casing for the pack. In the summer sun, the pack will just bake whether the bike is sitting in the sun or under a load in the sun. As long as the pack is in sunlight, it will take on heat. A reflective colored casing (white, silver, etc) would help mitigate absorbing some of the sun's heat.
In a way, the pack is air cooled as the bike is moving, but its not at rest. I can see why some manufacturers recommend waiting hours after charging before riding. After charging, the batteries are hot. Hitting the road will assist in degradation because they may get hotter and stay hot. Same thing when immediately charging from a hard ride. So, charge, ride (discharge), charge all within short time frames from each other can be an issue. If the batteries had a cooling source, this wouldn't be an issue.
One can argue that people are overthinking this. There is truth to it, but on the flip side, one can argue that the vendors may not be giving proper guidance, not engineering to prevent known failure states and setting up their customers for problems.
It is good to see Juice offer a charger capable of setting voltage cut out rates. Hopefully, this or another charger becomes part of the offering and not an upgrade. It is also good to see Juice have a voltage cut out limit setting on the bike.
They are thinking much more progressively than other vendors on this, just a few more steps and they'll be doing all the right things for the customer. Killing expensive batteries is a reality. It is not fake news. It is very easy to do and does not take very long regardless of chemistry.
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I have not seen lithium batteries come off a charger "hot" even at a 3C charge rate has been used. I believe the optimum temp for a lithium cell for best performance is a little north of 90 degreesF. That of course is NOT the best temp for longevity. Good point about black battery cases and sunlight. Park your bike in the sun for a few hours on an 85 degree day and that battery will be north of 100 degrees, not good
tomjasz
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Reention has a white "Dolphin" pack. Some builders will do a custom pack but with a significant lead time. That said I'm of the opinion that some of the information and ideas are over thought. I have batteries in their 5th season of being exposed to less than ideal conditions and they are just fine. I simply take my frame packs off if it's extremely hot and never leave them on a bike in a hot garage. We talk about ideal situations when most of us are unable to meet those standards. IMO. ride it like you stole it and enjoy!
Overthought is the perfect description. VVBG
tomjasz
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ebikes.ca is a DIY reseller. They can hardly support every eBike builder and their connectors. I'd be happy to help, but have no idea what connector you need.How many connector adapters did you have to buy or make
Ravi Kempaiah
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Not sure if you meant 3A ?!
3C charge would typically mean 10-12A for an eBike. Even 1C would make it warm and 3C would definitely make it hot!
Just to give you a perspective. Tesla supercharger is close to 1C and the charging cable definitely gets hot!
3C on any ebike for a few seconds would be ok but not many batteries are designed for sustained 3C draw.
For others who are reading this: 3C = you are draining your fully charged battery in 20 minutes.
Ravi Kempaiah
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People like you a rarity. Most ebikers here on the forum are recreational riders not dedicated 30 miles/day commuters. So, what you mention makes total sense for someone who is wanting to get the best out of the battery and use it for 4-5 years under heavy usage.
For someone who is doing only 1500 miles to 2500 miles a year, these things may not matter much.
