Charging to 80% without a Satiator

Don't forget the charging logrithim isn't constant current. It starts out that way but then switches to constant voltage and decreasing current
 
I’ve noticed my bike always shows ~1v less than what is read with a voltmeter after charging. Anyone else’s bike show that as well?
 
Justin Fischer said:
I have to admit, I am. Pictured on the USS Kentucky in 2016 somewhere in the Pacific. I have the 52V CCS with Marathon Plus tires, an unfortunately rare combination between the CCS and CCX lines. My wife has a RCS.
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I served aboard the USS Thomas Jefferson SSBN 618, 1967-1970. I think I'm just a little bit older than you are. We are still boomer brothers of the phin! I'll be checking in with you regarding my RCS soon after I get started riding and figure out what I don't know. I've got the satiator charger but I haven't set it up yet. I like the idea of charging up to 80% and not discharging below 20% when you don't need the full range capability of the bike. I would like to learn how much benefit you could expect from charging at the lower 2 amp rate with the basic charger that comes with the bike instead of the standard 4 amp rate, or even the fast charge rate of 7 amps with the Grin satiator charger.
 
cellistpilot said:
I served aboard the USS Thomas Jefferson SSBN 618, 1967-1970. I think I'm just a little bit older than you are. We are still boomer brothers of the phin! I'll be checking in with you regarding my RCS soon after I get started riding and figure out what I don't know. I've got the satiator charger but I haven't set it up yet. I like the idea of charging up to 80% and not discharging below 20% when you don't need the full range capability of the bike. I would like to learn how much benefit you could expect from charging at the lower 2 amp rate with the basic charger that comes with the bike instead of the standard 4 amp rate, or even the fast charge rate of 7 amps with the Grin satiator charger.
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Those Satiator chargers are the nazz and I'm sure you'll enjoy using yours.

Let me suggest that you try charging the bike at 85%, 90%, and 95% also, just to see what the performance of the bike is like. You don't get the same level of performance at 80% that you do at a higher level. The bike is zippier and a lot more fun. You might decide that this is worth it. The battery won't get the same longevity, but you might decide it's worth it to get the most out of your bike. If you find a sweet spot at, say 90% (just an example, not an estimate of where that sweet spot really is), then the battery will still last longer compared to charging up to 100%.

Suppose you only got 4 years of service from the battery instead of 5, but your enjoyment of the bike was significantly higher. It's a question worth thinking about.

I have a 48 volt battery. At 80% the bike's response is already noticeably lower. Not bad, far from awful, but definitely not what it is at 95%, which is what my stock charger provides. I'd really not want to miss that higher 15%. With a 52 V battery, those figures would definitely change and I'd have to experiment to find the sweet spot.
 
PastorDave said:
Have any of you math guys ever calculated an average minutes per volt charging guideline? ? For instance if I am at 43.3 and I want to go to 53.3...how long should I set my timer for? Or is this an oversimplification? (I have a 48/12 battery).
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Also, Pastor Dave, you might take a look at Post#18 in this thread and a chart by Surfstar which might give you some insight of how it works for him.
 
Bruce Arnold said:
Those Satiator chargers are the nazz and I'm sure you'll enjoy using yours.

Let me suggest that you try charging the bike at 85%, 90%, and 95% also, just to see what the performance of the bike is like. You don't get the same level of performance at 80% that you do at a higher level. The bike is zippier and a lot more fun. You might decide that this is worth it. The battery won't get the same longevity, but you might decide it's worth it to get the most out of your bike. If you find a sweet spot at, say 90% (just an example, not an estimate of where that sweet spot really is), then the battery will still last longer compared to charging up to 100%.

Suppose you only got 4 years of service from the battery instead of 5, but your enjoyment of the bike was significantly higher. It's a question worth thinking about.

I have a 48 volt battery. At 80% the bike's response is already noticeably lower. Not bad, far from awful, but definitely not what it is at 95%, which is what my stock charger provides. I'd really not want to miss that higher 15%. With a 52 V battery, those figures would definitely change and I'd have to experiment to find the sweet spot.
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Thank you so much for that insight. I didn't even think of a performance difference but that does make sense and I would be willing to trade some performance for a little less total battery life
 
Bruce Arnold said:
Those Satiator chargers are the nazz and I'm sure you'll enjoy using yours.

Let me suggest that you try charging the bike at 85%, 90%, and 95% also, just to see what the performance of the bike is like. You don't get the same level of performance at 80% that you do at a higher level. The bike is zippier and a lot more fun. You might decide that this is worth it. The battery won't get the same longevity, but you might decide it's worth it to get the most out of your bike. If you find a sweet spot at, say 90% (just an example, not an estimate of where that sweet spot really is), then the battery will still last longer compared to charging up to 100%.

Suppose you only got 4 years of service from the battery instead of 5, but your enjoyment of the bike was significantly higher. It's a question worth thinking about.

I have a 48 volt battery. At 80% the bike's response is already noticeably lower. Not bad, far from awful, but definitely not what it is at 95%, which is what my stock charger provides. I'd really not want to miss that higher 15%. With a 52 V battery, those figures would definitely change and I'd have to experiment to find the sweet spot.
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After 250 miles on my CCS I totally agree with this observation. The top 20% is where the real fun is!
 
My manual on the Magnum Premium folding e bike states to fully charge after a run, then later is says to get more life from your battery, charge between 20 and 80%. I am confused? Do I have to keep checking when recharging to make sure I stop at 80%? Can you buy chargers that will stop at 80%? Also I don't notice a drop in power when I am at a lower level of charge. On my Pacifica hybrid, I always fully charge. What gives?
Thanks
Allan
 
So many threads, so many opinions. I have batteries that I did a lousy job with that still give me decent service. 5 years old. I have batteries I did a better job of maintain and I get a bit better performance. Recently I’ve come to conclude I’ll need a new battery every 4 to 6 years. I have a charger that is one of the most advanced available. It has been a great tool and likely responsible for aiding in battery longevity.
my best advise these days is find a cigar box, stuff a couple of bucks in every ride. You’re covered.
 
So I asked the factory that makes lithium batteries what there thought was on the 80% rule. 80% is 4.05 and 100% is 4.20 That is a difference of .35 volts. Having said that, they say there is no real difference in charging from 80% to 100%. The difference is when you go below 40% as this is where more damage happens. I don't know for certain if this is correct and I'm not here to argue about this info, but this comes from a factory that makes lithium batteries, so what do they know right:) Not leaving your battery at full charge for long periods still stands and so does leaving your battery below 50% for extended periods. These are more important than charging to 100%
Thomas talks about charging his battery to full for years and still getting 5 + years on his pack so I think that tells us something too.
 
Oh, Almighty God, speak to us again. We need an addendum to the Ten Commandments. We’re talking e-bike batteries if you what I mean.
Until then...
I have this cheap timer to control charging time as I, until recently, thought there was a consensus regarding the 80 - 20 rule.
D875F8F5-8CEF-495E-89AD-E7B0E2719C9D.jpeg

It works fine for me, it’s not causing any mental stress to me to try to keep my battery within 80-20. For me it’s not just the cost of a new battery, it’s more a desire to have high capacity/range over a longer time. But $1000 is a lot for me too.
Anyway I’m lucky to have a 600Wh battery that gives my Vado 5.0 a good range even if I don’t give it a full charge every time. 25km/h limit helps :)
 
One of young brilliant eBike engineers, Justin Elmore E-Bikes.ca has long promoted limiting charge levels. As with many things these days we can always find someone with differing views. There are a couple of excellent lectures on YouTube confirming the advantages of 80%-90% levels. Sorry I don’t have the links on my iPhone.
 
Show me a scientific article that is less than 5 years old. Most are pushing 10. The manufacturing process and changing chemistry every year ( cells keep getting bigger and or more mah ) means what worked 5 or 10 years ago might not be the best for today's batteries. I posted what the Scientist of a lithium factory had to say on the subject and you can choose to believe it or not. Lithium factories are forever testing there batteries to see what works and what doesn't. They know before anyone else and usually keep it to themselves. People who buy cells to test ( and post on YouTube) are only finding out what the factories already know. Battery University is a good source for info but it's also a dumping ground for outdated articles. I just read one written in 2010 that states all Li-Ion cells should be discharged to 0 every 30 cycles. Total BS but it's still there for all to read.
 
MarkF said:
Most are pushing 10. The manufacturing process and changing chemistry every year
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Seriously? There have very few changes in chemistry over the last 5 years. PF, Panasonic B and more are old and still reliable. We’ve had few if anything new filter down to eBikes. I’m confused about the point you’re making.
 
You miss my point about factories working to make products better and the public would never know what there up to since it's trade secret and there all competing against each other. I'm trying to offer an inside look at whats going on. You don't have to listen or believe me. I thought like most and believed the 80 20 deal and was surprised to see them not back it up. That's why I posted it. By the way, the 80 20 rule has been around for 10 years. You think cells were same as today. Until someone actually buys some 2019 cells and does a scientific test, I don't believe all that's been written over 5 years ago. Maybe some of it.
 
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