Rize Secondary 52V battery charging and using for other ebikes

[sonoaatta]

I have secondary rize battery 52v, purchased separately, this is an addition not the main one, It was in storage for about 6month and it was never used.

My plan was to use this rize battery for another ebike project that I am working on. However i discovered that rize use their own plugs, which is fine, I believe this can be modified.

The led on the battery show full green, and the discharge port is 52V, isnt it suppose to be 58V when it is fully charged?

My problem I found, is with the charging port it is only measuring 15V, while the discharge port is 52V, if I measure from positive of the charging to negative of the discharge it shows 52V. Also the battery measures 25V when the switch on the battery is turn off.

I am not sure if this is normal with Rize batteries? I do not have the official charger from rize, but the charger I have is The Satiator from grin, a programable charger, the problem is that the charger does not charge with default settings, because the charging port only showing 15V, I can modify the setting to charge with lower voltages, would that be safe to start at 15V?

The charging port has 3 pins on the battery, would rize have their own tech to charge the batteries at lower voltages?

I appreciate any help or suggestions.

 

[harryS]

The battery switch is supposed to isolate the internal cells from the discharge connector when turned off. By design, this should show 0 volts, but you sometimes have residual charge plus leakage thru the battery circuits. If you put a small load resistor on the output, it should go to zero. However, I've seen crappy designs that would drain a tiny amount of current, enough to drain the battery if the bike controller didn't have a timed shut off.
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Battery displays are basically like on/off devices. Notoriously inaccurate, 52volts on a nominal 52V battery is around half charge. That's a bit extreme. Should show at least a little drop if it's using LED's.
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Some battery charger ports are turned off until a charger is connected. so you won't see anything other than residual voltage when connecting a meter. The circuit is such that anything voltage below what's needed to start charging will keep the input turned off. So 15V won't do anything, You probably have to be above 42 volts, I suspect you already did this with the Satiator and nothing happened?
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If so, one would have to look inside the Rize battery to see if the third pin on the Rize charger plug is connected. It probably is used for some kind of handshake,

 

[sonoaatta]

Thank you for the detailed reply. Yes the grin charge would not start as the voltage is lower than the starting voltage.

If the third PIN is actually connected for signal or handshake do you think there is a way typically to bypass? I would love to be able to use the charger for this battery.

 

[PCeBiker]

That handshake may be completely proprietary to keep people like you and me from using anything else but what the seller provides.

However, it may be as simple as applying a certain voltage to that pin to turn things on, or it may be some sort of firmware program?

My battery led charge indicator works the same as yours.
Anything above 48 volts is shown as fully charged. (I have a 48v battery)

 

[PCeBiker]

I'm lucky.
My battery has just a 2 pin input (charge port) and 2 pin output.

I don't need to concern myself with UART and CANBUS stuff.

 

[sonoaatta]

That handshake may be completely proprietary to keep people like you and me from using anything else but what the seller provides.

However, it may be as simple as applying a certain voltage to that pin to turn things on, or it may be some sort of firmware program?

My battery led charge indicator works the same as yours.
Anything above 48 volts is shown as fully charged. (I have a 48v battery)

This is great to know about the LEDs, Thank you.

I have seen Bosch batteries, that require 5v to the 3rd pin to charge, but I am scared to try it on this one so I do not damage it.

 

[PCeBiker]

This is great to know about the LEDs, Thank you.

I have seen Bosch batteries, that require 5v to the 3rd pin to charge, but I am scared to try it on this one so I do not damage it.

Try measuring the third pin on your charger output.
See if it looks like a signal or just a simple voltage.

You might be able to trick it into starting?

Check the Rize forum to see if there's any info.
Time to do some research.
You don't wreck anything.


Ohh, BTW, My voltmeter connected to my battery input was enough to slowly drain that residual voltage from my battery input.
A voltmeter does draw a small amount of current.

The handshake may be a simple one finger 5V poke?
Maybe nothing fancy?

 

[sonoaatta]

Actually looking at the video to check the fuse from RIZE, with the battery open it does not show any third wire connected to the third pin, just 2 wires to the charging port. Hmm so why is my charging port only measuring 15V?

 

[sonoaatta]

Try measuring the third pin on your charger output.
See if it looks like a signal or just a simple voltage.

You might be able to trick it into starting?

Check the Rize forum to see if there's any info.
Time to do some research.
You don't wreck anything.


Ohh, BTW, My voltmeter connected to my battery input was enough to slowly drain that residual voltage from my battery input.
A voltmeter does draw a small amount of current.

The handshake may be a simple one finger 5V poke?
Maybe nothing fancy?

Actually looking at the video to check the fuse from RIZE, with the battery open it does not show any third wire connected to the third pin, just 2 wires to the charging port. Hmm so why is my charging port only measuring 15V?

View attachment 160676

 

[harryS]

I can't see the wires, but will take your word for it that it's a standard Hailong case battery with a 3 pin microphone socket for charging, It's still possible to have the charge port protected like that. I've got a couple of them that show no voltage when I plug in a meter, but fire up when a charger is connected. Those are only two pins too, What's nice aboutthose batteries is that they don't spark when I plug in an unpowered charger.
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Reasons why a battery won;t take a charge.
1) Defective BMS (battery monitor system, brains of the battery).
2) Good BMS detecting a fault condition in the battery cells. However, if this were true, you probably wouldn't be able to get 52V on the output. The BMS would shut the output off too,

 

[PCeBiker]

... Hmm so why is my charging port only measuring 15V?

Because you're measuring the BMS input.
That measurement is completely erroneous.

 

[sonoaatta]

Thank you for you input and help. Most of the other battries I have when I am measure from the charging port I get the same as the discharge port, with the RIZe it is was low. So you would think if I force the Satiator to start charging at lower voltage that would be safe? basically force 58v to the charging port?

 

[PCeBiker]

You're measuring through the BMS.
That doesn't always give you the battery's voltage.
Be careful.
You're messing with a big ass