Cannondale Topstone Gravel Ebike

[Alaskan]

Thank you! I was curious if the rear gearing would be high enough for hilly terrain without the 2x11 and this answers that, so much appreciated!

Glad to be of help. We live at the top of a 600 foot hill with several sections that are 15-17 percent grade. As I am 71 and have a few health challenges, I do shift into to turbo make the final climb home. The bike moves right along at about 8mph in the lowest gear which is 48t front and 46t rear.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Turbo mode with this Bosch gen 4 motor is awesome. The biggest problem I have going up steeper trails is the bike want to do a wheelie in turbo when I pedal hard.

 

[Gee_Whiz]

So I emailed FSA regarding the 2x11 chainring that's on the Neo 2 and this was their response:

"That chainring, crank, and spider combination (Topstone Neo 2x11), is an OEM setup for Cannondale. Each part would need to be purchased independently (cranks, rings, spider) and will only function properly on an e-bike that has been programmed for that exact drivetrain (tooth count/ max and min gear ratios) by the manufacturer. These parameters cannot be changed after the initial OEM setup of any given Bosch e-bike and changing to different numbers of teeth or gears will cause the motor assist system to function poorly. Due to the fact that the e-bike (Topstone Neo 3 for ref.), was programmed with the minimum and maximum gear ratios afforded by a 44t 1x chainring matched to an 11 speed 11-42t cassette, changing any of those numbers will very much interfere with the performance of the bike.

If you put a 48t ring on it, the motor will operate with the assumption that its a 44t due to its programming and will not put out the power needed to function properly. You will lose assist power throughout the entirety of your range of gears as the 48t will require more power output from the motor in every gear combo but the motor wont be aware of this because its still operating as if its pushing a 44t.

Unfortunately due to the programming parameters of e-bikes one cannot change the drive train much at all without adversely affecting the way the motor operates. Additionally, without the bike in front of me to mount a larger ring like that I wouldn't be able to tell you whether it will even have clearance for a larger ring. My recommendation is not to change the drivetrain configuration from the original setup in order to keep peak operating characteristics. "

Deacon & Alaskan, I'm assuming not.. but have you seen a drop in performance or battery life efficiency with the change to 48t and rear cog?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So I emailed FSA regarding the 2x11 chainring that's on the Neo 2 and this was their response:

"That chainring, crank, and spider combination (Topstone Neo 2x11), is an OEM setup for Cannondale. Each part would need to be purchased independently (cranks, rings, spider) and will only function properly on an e-bike that has been programmed for that exact drivetrain (tooth count/ max and min gear ratios) by the manufacturer. These parameters cannot be changed after the initial OEM setup of any given Bosch e-bike and changing to different numbers of teeth or gears will cause the motor assist system to function poorly. Due to the fact that the e-bike (Topstone Neo 3 for ref.), was programmed with the minimum and maximum gear ratios afforded by a 44t 1x chainring matched to an 11 speed 11-42t cassette, changing any of those numbers will very much interfere with the performance of the bike.

If you put a 48t ring on it, the motor will operate with the assumption that its a 44t due to its programming and will not put out the power needed to function properly. You will lose assist power throughout the entirety of your range of gears as the 48t will require more power output from the motor in every gear combo but the motor wont be aware of this because its still operating as if its pushing a 44t.

Unfortunately due to the programming parameters of e-bikes one cannot change the drive train much at all without adversely affecting the way the motor operates. Additionally, without the bike in front of me to mount a larger ring like that I wouldn't be able to tell you whether it will even have clearance for a larger ring. My recommendation is not to change the drivetrain configuration from the original setup in order to keep peak operating characteristics. "

It is the Bosch E-Bike for you. Whiz: For how many times did I tell you that? And you wouldn't still listen?
You need to get the authorization from both Cannondale and Bosch E-Bikes to change the size of your chainring(s).

 

[Deacon Blues]

I didn't expect to and I haven't.

 

[Gee_Whiz]

It is the Bosch E-Bike for you. Whiz: For how many times did I tell you that? And you wouldn't still listen?
You need to get the authorization from both Cannondale and Bosch E-Bikes to change the size of your chainring(s).

Authorization to change the front chainring and rear gearing?

 

[Alaskan]

I changed from 44t to 48t on my front chain ring and the bike has done over 3,000 miles with great power, not a single error code, great battery range...basically no issues at all. It took a lively responsive bike and gave it a better top end while going from a 11-42 cassette to an 11-46 allowed me to recover almost all the climbing power I gave up with the bigger chain ring. No way would I ever go back. I spoke with a guy from Bosch North America before I made the change and he said I might need to take it into the dealer (REI), if it threw an error code after installing the 48 tooth ring but it might work just fine without any adjustments to the motor programming, which is exactly what happened.

Clearly getting the info about Bosch and Cannondale from a guy with FSA was not accurate. He was correct about the complications of switching the Neo 3 drive train to the 2x11 the comes on the Neo 2. While the greater gear range was inherently quite attractive to me. I found my simpler solution to be more than satisfactory.

DECKAS MTB Bike Narrow Wide Round Oval Chainring Chain Ring BCD104mm 32T~52T on eBay

DECKAS MTB Bike Narrow Wide Round Oval Chainring Chain Ring BCD104mm 32T~52T | eBay

DECKAS MTB Bike Narrow Wide Round Oval Chainring Chain Ring BCD104mm 32T~52T CNC machined 7075-T6 aluminium provides the perfect blend of light weight and strength.The chainring is compatible with 8spd,9spd, 10spd,11spd and 12spd set ups. A hard anodised finish makes these ultra durable and...

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I also added this chainring guard to my set up.

gobike88 Driveline 48T Chainring Guard, BCD 104, Silver Bolts, 126g, Gray, AE6 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for gobike88 Driveline 48T Chainring Guard, BCD 104, Silver Bolts, 126g, Gray, AE6 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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[Stefan Mikes]

DECKAS MTB Bike Narrow Wide Round Oval Chainring Chain Ring BCD104mm 32T~52T on eBay

Could you explain Richard what benefits you expect from using the oval chainring on a mid-drive motor e-bike? It seems to deliver variable torque to the motor as you are pedalling, isn't it.

 

[Alaskan]

Could you explain Richard what benefits you expect from using the oval chainring on a mid-drive motor e-bike? It seems to deliver variable torque to the motor as you are pedalling, isn't it.

I did not use an oval ring. It's round. Ovals do not work on mid drive motors as they need to be at a fixed angle to the cranks.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I did not use an oval ring. It's round. Ovals do not work on mid drive motors as they need to be at a fixed angle to the cranks.

OK, I have misunderstood you!

DECKAS MTB Bike Narrow Wide Round Oval Chainring Chain Ring BCD104mm 32T~52T on eBay

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Authorization to change the front chainring and rear gearing?

The front one.

The DU looks at wheel speed and motor output, among many other things. It is able to determine what the max speed should be based on the max gear ratio, etc.

If a larger chain ring is installed, it may trigger an error code as the max wheel speed won't "make sense" to the DU if the new gear ratio is much larger than stock gearing.

The OEM must approve the change, as well as remotely adjust the value in your DU. Your dealer will assist with this process, but is not able to complete it on their own. The OEM must be involved.

The Bosch guy wrote several posts related to the chainring swap. I can clearly remember one of his posts (it could also come from Stephen of Bosch Team) where he wrote "The change has to be approved by both OEM and Bosch E-Bike".

He was correct about the complications of switching the Neo 3 drive train to the 2x11 the comes on the Neo 2.

I concur.

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Thanks all! So I think I'm going to pickup a Topstone 3 but wanted to get a few more insights on parts swaps if you dont mind

Tires:
I usually run 27.5x2.2 on commuter e-bikes; Sticking with stock alloy wheels for now as I don't think carbon is a good idea for riders 250+?, but any suggestion for light, tires that are maybe great for road and good for gravel? Leaning towards the Panaracer Gravelking SK in 700x35-37 and a separate 650b/47mm set for Trails - likely Pathfinder Pro or Vittoria Terreno Dry -- I do plan on running fenders as well, some version of SKS most likely. It also looks like wheels would be needed for running 700s stock on the Neo3?

Display:
Nyon if possible

Stem/Seatpost:
stock stem: 85mm; likely going Kinect but does the spring mm matter or is it personal preference?

Converting to a flatbar; can I mix Shimano gearing and SRAM for shifters and levers, or need to stick with one or the other? Was thinking Di2 but would have to stick with a 34t rear, no?

Groupset:
If switching to a 48t/11-46t such as the Shimano XT CS-M8000, are there any other parts that will need to be replaced? Would it be worth it to switch completely to an NX Eagle 10-50t setup, XTR, AXS, etc?

Chainring:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1229887823...r=423432983300&widget_ver=artemis&media=EMAIL -- there seems to be a shortage of 104BCD 48t options? Not able to find many


Anything else that should be kept in mind when swapping or upgrading parts?


Thanks!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

(I got lost in the number and names of all e-bikes you have bought so far...)

I am a great advocate of Pathfinder Pros, if you ask me. 38-622 or 42-622 (proper gravel sizes for most of us). PP are not only fast rolling but also puncture resistant.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan Where is Dallant?
Is he dead?

His absence has been worrying the Forum members for past several months. We also hear nothing from Sierratim.

 

[Alaskan]

I test ride this rigid ebike. For sale on Craigslist.

that fat tire, hub motor, chinese bike really does not belong on this thread.

 

[Deacon Blues]

- likely Pathfinder Pro or Vittoria Terreno Dry --

Funny you should mention these two tires, as I'm presently riding on both.
When I went with carbon wheels I replaced the stock tires, which I didn't like, with a wider set (47mm) of Pathfinder Pros. I really like these tires on pavement and hardpack trails, but not so such on loose gravel.
A while back I got a serious punction (2" screw) through the tread on my rear tire and it chewed a big enough hole to destroy the tire. I'd read a couple of really good reviews on the Terreno Dry tire, so I decided to replace the destroyed tire with the Terrreno.
I bought another Terreno for the front, but there's a lot of life still left in the Pathfinders, so I haven't replaced it yet.
My 'seat-of-the'pants' comparison of the two tires is the Pathfinders are faster on pavement and the Terrenos are a bit better in the looser stuff.

 

[Alaskan]

@Gee_Whiz

Tires: I run tubeless WTB Byway 650Bx 47mm tires on my Neo 3 Good fit, fast and quiet on the road and adequate on trails

Display: I have the Nyon on my bike as well. It requiress different cable harness to the motor and a different mount. Best to have it installed by your dealer as the motor needs to be dropped down to route the cable

Stem/Seatpost: I have the Kinekt body float seatpost. Springs are color coded and vary with rider weight. The kinkekt stem is redundant on the Neo 3 as it already has a suspension fork.

Converting to a flatbar; I went with the Ritchey wcs ventureMax shallow drop gravel drop bar. I was riding only flat bars up to that point but I really like these on the bike and have gotten accustomed to the ride position.

https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/bike/handlebars/wcs-venturemax-handlebar

Groupset: Not worth changing drive train to Sram as you have to change the brakes too. I found the GRX 812 derailleur was sufficiently adjustable to accommodate the 46 tooth chain ring by adjusting the B screw. No added parts required. A Wolf Tooth Goat link or Road Link might have helped but was not really necessary.

GoatLink 11

The GoatLink 11 hanger extension offsets the position of your 11-speed Shimano mountain bike rear derailleur allowing you to be able to run a wider range cassette while improving performance. Same ergonomics and reliability of Shimano shifters and derailleurs Gear range, simplicity and quietness...

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The GoatLink 11 hanger extension offsets the position of your 11-speed Shimano mountain bike rear derailleur allowing you to be able to run a wider range cassette while improving performance. Same ergonomics and reliability of Shimano shifters and derailleurs Gear range, simplicity and quietness...


Chainring:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1229887823...r=423432983300&widget_ver=artemis&media=EMAIL -- there seems to be a shortage of 104BCD 48t options? Not able to find many


Anything else that should be kept in mind when swapping or upgrading parts?

 

[Deacon Blues]

I just had the same handlebar as Alaska installed on my Lefty 3 a couple of weeks ago.
I didn't like the stock drop bar that came with the bike and for some strange reason my thumb and next two fingers would always go numb on longer rides with the stock handlebar.
I switched to a flat bar setup and I liked it, but the bar sat too close to me and I needed to buy another longer Redshift stem for a proper fit. Instead of doing that I decided to go back to a drop bar setup.
I've only had the Ritchey Venturemax on for a couple of weeks, but so far I'm really happy with this handlebar.

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Thank you both! I'll do some further recon as well; The Ritchey looks great, but in the city I find flat bars to be a better fit for the pace.. ill keep those in mind for a road/distance bike though

 

[Gee_Whiz]

Funny you should mention these two tires, as I'm presently riding on both.
When I went with carbon wheels I replaced the stock tires, which I didn't like, with a wider set (47mm) of Pathfinder Pros. I really like these tires on pavement and hardpack trails, but not so such on loose gravel.
A while back I got a serious punction (2" screw) through the tread on my rear tire and it chewed a big enough hole to destroy the tire. I'd read a couple of really good reviews on the Terreno Dry tire, so I decided to replace the destroyed tire with the Terrreno.
I bought another Terreno for the front, but there's a lot of life still left in the Pathfinders, so I haven't replaced it yet.
My 'seat-of-the'pants' comparison of the two tires is the Pathfinders are faster on pavement and the Terrenos are a bit better in the looser stuff.

Ok perfect; The Pathfinder Pros seem like the consensus with Stefans experience as well. They seem a bit heavy, but a lighter wheel should balance that presumably