Broken spokes - R750

[jxenon54]

All,
I'm about 10 months and 1300 miles on my M2S R750. A week or so ago I noticed the back of the bike felt a little squishy. Turns out there are 16 broken spokes on my rear tire - all snapped at the bend. I've read a few posts about broken spokes, but 16 seems like a large number. Also, 15/16 broken spokes had the butt of the spoke facing outward. On one side of the wheel/hub all 9 outward facing spokes were broken. One the other side 6 outward-butt spokes and one inward-butt spokes were broken. I was surprised to see this. Is this unusual?

Also, the company informed me that spokes are not covered under warranty - which I get for one or two. But does the large number and fact that it was almost exclusively outward facing spokes indicate a possible manufacturing defect?
Thanks,
j

 

[Mr. Coffee]

That is total bull$#!+.

Sixteen spokes failing at more or less the same time can really only happen if you seriously and insanely abused the bike (which would imply in my mind that you took it off a twenty foot drop) or if the wheel build and spokes were defective. This is even more egregious in that with a hub drive the rear spokes are shorter and hence the wheel is actually stronger.

 

[J.R.]

There has to be more to this story. Everytime I've broken a spoke in my life, it's been the same story. First, I never heard the break. Second, the spoke, being free, makes a racket that can't be ignored. Once I broke two spokes and I knew it quickly. I was off road too, so it wasn't a quiet environment. How can you break 16 spokes and the first warning was a "little squishy" ride?

In no way do I suggest this is your fault. I don't know. M2S should want to help here. I'm just curious to know more. 16! Wow! The only time I've ever heard of a wheel getting that damaged was by a car rolling over it.

 

[jxenon54]

How can you break 16 spokes and the first warning was a "little squishy" ride?

I know it's a little crazy. I was and still am fairly surprised by this. And I can't say for how long it was happening... Maybe they were gradually breaking over the course of the past few months. The only thing that pointed me to the spokes was a single snap that occurred just a few meters before stopping at what has been my final destination thus far. That made me look at the wheel and discover the spokes.

Now I've broken spokes on a normal bike and that was instantly noticeable. Brakes dragged, wheel wobbled, and the spoke clacked around. Interestingly, everyone one of the broken spokes on my current ride is actually still somewhat secured between the other spoke with which it is laced and the rim of the hub. In fact, looking at the wheel, you'd have almost no idea anything was wrong - but if you look closely, you notice that many/all of the silver spoke heads are missing. You have to try to move the spokes with your hand to notice they aren't secure.

And along those lines, no pair of laced spokes broke... So far, it's a single spoke of a pair - hence the broken spoke is held in place fairly well.

Lastly, I'm not riding this bike, but it was definitely still ridable when I got off... with 16 broken spokes! FWIW, it's a 36 spoke wheel.

 

[J.R.]

I know it's a little crazy. I was and still am fairly surprised by this. And I can't say for how long it was happening... Maybe they were gradually breaking over the course of the past few months. The only thing that pointed me to the spokes was a single snap that occurred just a few meters before stopping at what has been my final destination thus far. That made me look at the wheel and discover the spokes.

Now I've broken spokes on a normal bike and that was instantly noticeable. Brakes dragged, wheel wobbled, and the spoke clacked around. Interestingly, everyone one of the broken spokes on my current ride is actually still somewhat secured between the other spoke with which it is laced and the rim of the hub. In fact, looking at the wheel, you'd have almost no idea anything was wrong - but if you look closely, you notice that many/all of the silver spoke heads are missing. You have to try to move the spokes with your hand to notice they aren't secure.

And along those lines, no pair of laced spokes broke... So far, it's a single spoke of a pair - hence the broken spoke is held in place fairly well.

Lastly, I'm not riding this bike, but it was definitely still ridable when I got off... with 16 broken spokes! FWIW, it's a 36 spoke wheel.

It's very odd. If you've hit a brick wall with M2S and you don't want to go through a protracted legal fight over this, try to at least get the spokes from them. 5 years ago when I broke a few spokes on an ebike, the company sent me the spokes and I rebuilt the wheel. I'd want an entire new set of spokes, plus a few spares, to rebuild that wheel.

Wheels/spokes should be covered by the warranty, but often labor is not on ebikes sold direct to the consumer. This is a catastrophic failure, you might want to seek legal advice before doing anything. 16 broken spokes could kill you.

Good luck!

 

[harryS]

What's wrong with this seller? We're talking peanuts here. If you knew the length, you could buy 37 spokes/nipples from China on ebay for$18 and wait a month, or 36 spokes/nipples from a good ebay vendor in Olney. IL for $37 and have them in a few days. Not hard to rebuild a wheel if it's sitting there in front of you. Takes some practice to get it to spin true,

If it were my wheel, I'd replace with Saphim "Strong" spokes, intended for ebikes and 13G at the elbow and 14G at the wheel. Spoke washers would be needed to cope with the larger holes used by the current spokes, probably 12G. This would be about 50-60 bucks in parts. Probably at least 50 bucks in labor too,

 

[jxenon54]

After reading your comments, I'm trying one more time to see if M2S will send replacement spokes for free... I guess we'll see. But in the meantime, harryS, is there any reason you recommend replacing 12g with a lower gauge spoke? Saphim makes 12g spokes... I was thinking about going that route...

 

[rich c]

M2S says it does not warrant improper assembly. Doesn’t say if it’s their or your improper assembly. Being vague in a warranty is not good for the owner. https://m2sbikes.com/m2s-bikes-warranty-information/
With 16 spikes missing, I think the repair will be tough without a wheel fixture. I lost 2 spokes and the wheel had a marked runout in it. I’d replace them all, as the metallurgy is suspect with that failure rate.

 

[jxenon54]

No dice with M2S. Spokes aren't covered. I get it, but it sucks. Definitely mixed feelings about the company wrt this situation. And to rub salt in the wound, it appears that I will be able to purchase SAPIM spokes from Sunnyspokes (I've seen this recommended elsewhere on EBR) for less than I'm being quoted for replacements by M2S. So wheel rebuild here we come!

 

[indianajo]

You don't want more ****ese garbage steel anyway, even if it is free under the warrenty. Measure the length, then buy some DT swiss spokes. They are made in a country where "steel" is not likely to contain lead or brass. (Not switzerland). I ride a gross weight of 330 lb with cargo and have broken two spokes in my life. That bike was after they quit making bargain bikes in the US.
Length is from the end to the center of the boss that goes through the wheel.
I got mine from https://thebikeshopstore.com/categories/components
I think wald spokes that they also sell are from the source of all counterfeits. Don't waste your time.

 

[jxenon54]

My bike is finally back!!! So a new set of Pillar spokes was about $60 from SunnySpokes. Can't speak highly enough of this place! LBS (Handlebars) rebuilt the wheel for about $50. Admittedly, I wasn't super thrilled about the response from M2S: "Spokes are 2.50/pc and nipples are .50/pc. There is a flat shipping fee of $10 regardless of spoke count." So I do have mixed feelings about M2S - Not happy about spokes (but I get it). But up until the spokes, they always sent replacements quickly after troubleshooting. And they're generally quite responsive to emails. And I love riding my R750. So thanks to all that weighed in on my post. Now it's time to go ride!