Alternative Display and Controller for NCM (DAS-KIT)

[ovt]

Hey @PCeBiker! What news do you have about your new kit? Does it work well?

 

[PCeBiker]

Hey @PCeBiker! What news do you have about your new kit? Does it work well?

I'm really liking it.

I does everything that I want it to do but there is still a slight delay from when I hit the throttle to when the power kicks in.
It's not as long as the Das-Kit delay, but it's still annoying.
I fell over a few times because of it.
It doesn't appear to be adjustable.

I'd like a zero delay like on a motorcycle.



The power control is awesome though.
I can lock my throttle at less than 3 kph for extreme slow speed maneuvering and REALLY practice my balance.

And I can cut my power in half to get as much range as possible.

I went 85 km on my new 25ah battery Without Pedaling AT ALL !!

I can still set my power and throttle to max when I hit the dirt and do some hill climbing, but I've been fine with steep climbs at half power (12.5 amps, ~550 Watts depending on my battery's voltage) if I pedal.

The bike with the power cut in half still has enough to pull itself up the hill if I carry my own weight by pedaling.



The display/controller are locked at 32 kph and I'm not sure how it's done.
You would think that changing the wheel size or changing P1 and P2 would make it go faster, but all that does is change what the speedometer reads, but not the actual speed.

I can feel the power kicking in and out at 32 kph, so I know that I haven't reached maximum power or maximum RPMS of the motor, but I'm sure that I could power into a 20 MPH headwind at full speed.
(I wouldn't do that though. I'm in no rush and don't want to strain my motor, controller, or battery )

These are my display settings.
I turned my power/speed down to half and turned throttle gear down to 20% of full power.
(which would be 20% of 12.5 amps)

That's just for throttle gear 1 and the power/speed goes up with each throttle gear, up to the maximum power setting for throttle gear 5.

C5 setting from 00 to 02 only relate to PAS mode settings, and I didn't connect my cadence/PAS sensor.

C5=03 Is half power.
C5=10 Is full power, 25 amps.

(PS,.. 25 amps at full charge is 1365 Watts, and 25 amps at cut-off voltage (~40V) is 1000 Watts)

The bike REALLY slows down at close to cutoff voltage.

 

[ovt]

Thank you for the update and i'm glad everything it works correctly. Now i want to buy a thumb throttle 300x,maybe it will fix the delay or maybe not, we'll see . When I use pedal assist the delay is very annoying when I enter a roundabout and then I have to go up a hill, if you are on a lower gear it is quite difficult to leave the spot. https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005....0.0.43f938daZcAguQ&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2vnm I can also buy a tunning kit which they say reduces lagging but only works for L7 display, and I have L6 offroad unlocked display. https://ebiketuning.com/products/mtt-power

 

[PCeBiker]

Thank you for the update and i'm glad everything it works correctly. Now i want to buy a thumb throttle 300x,maybe it will fix the delay or maybe not, we'll see . When I use pedal assist the delay is very annoying when I enter a roundabout and then I have to go up a hill, if you are on a lower gear it is quite difficult to leave the spot.

I've got two of those throttles on the way.
It was only $7 more to get two, so I got two.
I've also got another regular thumb throttle on the way as well.
The 300X throttle has about 20° more rotation to is, so it should be easier to dial in the right throttle position.

But, I'm 98% sure that the throttle will make no difference with the delay, however the delay might not be as long when you hit the throttle as opposed to pedaling.
I'm not sure about that though, I didn't try to time it with my Das-Kit or KT controllers/displays.

The throttles do have a dead spot in the movement though, so you have to move the throttle lever a bit until it activates (and then of course wait for the programming to tell the motor to turn on. )

All my different throttles had a dead spot.

I can also buy a tunning kit which they say reduces lagging but only works for L7 display, and I have L6 offroad unlocked display. https://ebiketuning.com/products/mtt-power

I had the off-road Das-Kit C7 display and it had the same lag as my original.

The lag is a big problem for almost everyone, and I know that the guys with BAFANG stuff are working hard to eliminate the delay and decay with power delivery.

I'm pretty sure that the delay and the maximum speed are a function of the display and not the controller.
The controller just does what the display tells it to do.
The controller does make sure that it's limitations aren't exceeded though.

 

[ovt]

I found this complete controller on a forum that fits the das-kit completely, just needs to be replaced. I don't think I will spend any more money on this, I'm thinking of buying a Super 73 RX and the das-kit ebike I will give it to my brother. I think I will only change the throttle with a 300x Thumb throttle or a 20X Half Twist Throttle. I think the half twist throttle is much better, what do you think? What should I choose? Thumb throttle or half twist throttle?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33017453619.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.191538daZocEbM&mp=1 And I have one more question, does another display not work with the das-kit controller? For example, a KT display.

 

[ovt]

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/speed-re-strictor-removal.35224/
DAS KIT use to use Luishi electronics for their kits/bikes as with the Oxydrive kits.
Like KT they use to be easy to de- restrict.

 

[PCeBiker]

I found this complete controller on a forum that fits the das-kit completely, just needs to be replaced. I don't think I will spend any more money on this, I'm thinking of buying a Super 73 RX and the das-kit ebike I will give it to my brother. I think I will only change the throttle with a 300x Thumb throttle or a 20X Half Twist Throttle. I think the half twist throttle is much better, what do you think? What should I choose? Thumb throttle or half twist throttle?

I have a full twist throttle and I don't like it.
The throttle is too hard to hold steady if the handlebars are bouncing around.

I don't think a half twist throttle would have that problem though (but I've never tried one.)

 

[ovt]

So what would you recommend me to buy? That Thump throttle 300x or the Half Twist Throttle?

 

[PCeBiker]

So what would you recommend me to buy? That Thump throttle 300x or the Half Twist Throttle?

I'm guessing that the half twist would be better.
A lot of people (including myself) find that holding the thumb throttle on becomes uncomfortable during a long trip, and I find that holding it steady difficult to do when I'm trying to do some hill climbing or I'm bouncing around on a rough trail.

I figure that the half twist would be more comfortable and more stable because you can lock most of your hand around the outer part of the grip and just have your thumb and forefinger around the twist part and it should remain steady because the rest of your hand is locked around the handlebars.

I should have bought a half twist throttle in the first place.
I was familiar with full twist from my motorcycle days, but I don't recall the throttle bouncing around on my dirt bike (that was decades ago) but maybe it was something that I just got used to at the time ?

 

[ovt]

I have found this calculator, so the peak power of the das-kit CT5-I5 controller is 22Amp.My top speed on flat road is between 38-40kphn and And if I keep the wheel in the air, it reaches 45khp. If I change the tires to some full road ones like for example Super Moto-X, the speed will probably be a little higher. The cross tires slow the bike down a bit to reach maximum speed. https://www.falconpev.com.sg/pages/calculator

 

[PCeBiker]

I have found this calculator, so the peak power of the das-kit CT5-I5 controller is 22Amp.

That's my understanding.
The the American version of my e-bike is unlocked with 22Amps available and goes up to 45 kph.
My Canadian version is turned down to 18Amps (500 Watts) and is speed limited to 32 kph.
The European version is limited to 15Amps (250 Watts) and is speed limited to 25 kph.

I'm pretty sure that all the limiting is done with the display, but there may be a bit of firmware in the controller for the different markets?

My top speed on flat road is between 38-40kphn

That sounds about right to me.
At top speed, almost all of your power is used to push you through the wind.

And if I keep the wheel in the air, it reaches 45khp.

I've never tried doing a wheelie to go faster.
I'm going to try that.

And if I keep the wheel in the air, it reaches 45khp.

That may not be the maximum RPMS of the motor.
It's probably your speed limiter kicking in.

If I change the tires to some full road ones like for example Super Moto-X, the speed will probably be a little higher. The cross tires slow the bike down a bit to reach maximum speed. https://www.falconpev.com.sg/pages/calculator

Keep in mind that your top speed is mostly dictated by wind resistance, but more efficient tires can only help.


Another thing about the Super Moto-X tires, is that you can start doing things like this on clean asphalt.

I've got street tires that allow me to do this,..

It's as FUN AF to lean into corners!!
You will just have to learn to not try it in the dirt.
It becomes intuitive.

 

[ovt]

It is quite difficult to do a wheelie with my ebike because the battery is quite heavy, it is 5.5kg. So the peak power of the motor is 1056w. 48x22amps=1056. I use the code 8088 to unlock all the functions but with all this I can't reach a speed higher than 40kph on the road. And it takes me about 14 seconds to reach the maximum speed. I don't know how good the time is.

 

[PCeBiker]

IIt is quite difficult to do a wheelie with my ebike because the battery is quite heavy, it is 5.5kg.

My ebike weighs over 90 pounds.
My XR200R weighed 240 pounds without gas.

Wheelies aren't about power.
They're about the riders skill.
To be honest, I can't do a wheelie worth a .

My brother-in-law can do a wheelie on anything with two wheels.
I want to get him to do a wheelie on my ebike.

The only issue is slamming the front end down after the wheelie and blowing the fork seals.
My brother-in-law is skilled enough to land it gently.

I use the code 8088 to unlock all the functions but with all this I can't reach a speed higher than 40kph on the road.

Yeah, I did too but it only unlocked it to 32 kph.
Very little to adjust under those settings and I couldn't control the power on my version.

Full power was still 22Amps on my ebike, but restricted to 500 Watts and 32 kph on my ebike.

The regulations say nothing about how much power is allowed to get you to the limit.

My Das-Kit displays ammeter topped out at 12 Amps.
The actual amps drawn was probably 22 Amps, until I got to top speed/power.

And it takes me about 14 seconds to reach the maximum speed. I don't know how good the time is.

Yeah me either.
But I had HUGE power to get me up to speed.
Too much power.
I wanted to control the power so I installed the KT controller/display.

 

[ovt]

Can someone explain to me why the Stromer ebike even if the battery is half consumed can still reach the maximum speed and other ebikes such as the NCM for example, after the battery starts to consume both the maximum speed and the power decrease? What is so special to the Stromer controller? For example on my ebike when the battery is full, I reach 38-40kph, and when it is half consumed I can only reach 35-37kph with the 48v 21Ah battery.

 

[ovt]

 

[ovt]

Compared with the direct drive motor, geared motors excel in terms of portability, torque, resistance, battery lifespan and efficiency. So, if you do not have the ultimate pursuit of top speed and usually attach importance to the maintenance of your electric bike, a geared hub motor ebike is the best choice for you.

• On the contrary, the geared hub motor is much lighter and you can enjoy the cycling with ease.
• Top speed
  To control the speed under the national standard, the rotor speed of the geared hub motor is reduced by its gear reduction system. So, the gearless hub motor has a higher top speed compared with gear hub motor.

Gear hub vs direct drive motor - A detailed comparison

Geared hub or direct drive, which is the most suitable for you? In this article, you can learn what a geared hub/direct drive motor is and the differences between them.

www.espinbikes.com

 

[AHicks]

Can someone explain to me why the Stromer ebike even if the battery is half consumed can still reach the maximum speed and other ebikes such as the NCM for example, after the battery starts to consume both the maximum speed and the power decrease? What is so special to the Stromer controller? For example on my ebike when the battery is full, I reach 38-40kph, and when it is half consumed I can only reach 35-37kph with the 48v 21Ah battery.

The answer is there is nothing special about the NCM.

The less the draw on the battery, the less effect voltage sag will have on your top speed. Eg: a 500w motor won't cause voltage sag nearly as quickly as say a 1500w at wide open throttle.

You can do the same thing with a controller that's not able to pass the max amount of current available from the battery compared to one that can. If you have a max 50a available at the battery, but the controller is set up to deliver only 18-20a, sag will not be as apparent as a controller able to handle 50a from the 50a battery.

 

[ovt]

When the battery is 100% charged, it has 54.3v and when I drive at high speed, it drops somewhere around 48-49v as long as the motor is running, especially when going uphill, which is normal.

 

[AHicks]

When the battery is 100% charged, it has 54.3v and when I drive at high speed, it drops somewhere around 48-49v as long as the motor is running, especially when going uphill, which is normal.

If you say so...

None of my bikes do that.....

 

[PCeBiker]

When the battery is 100% charged, it has 54.3v and when I drive at high speed, it drops somewhere around 48-49v as long as the motor is running, especially when going uphill, which is normal.

That makes sense to me.
Our Das-Kit Controllers are limited to 20 amps.
20 amps at 54.3 volts is 1086 Watts.

As the voltage sags under load, 20 amps at 48 volts is 960 Watts.

At cut-off voltage, the available power is 800 Watts