A BBSHD Killer? Here comes the CYC Photon

[PedalUma]

BBS02-levels of power

I just can't do a motor where the chainring moves at a different rate than the crank arms. For me that is totally disconnected and weird. I started with Bafangs. I ditched my HD by three weeks. Sure it was powerful and sort of thrilling at first, but also boring. Different strokes for different folks. There is even good justification for the Specialized Haul hub drive for people who don't know how to shift a mid-drive and want a throttle because it is mindless.

 

[teskow]

Disconnected and weird. How can you tell if the chainring is moving a different rate then the crank arms?
A throttle is mindless? Gosh I would hope so as I wouldn't want it doing its own thing on my bike or auto.

 

[AHicks]

I just can't do a motor where the chainring moves at a different rate than the crank arms. For me that is totally disconnected and weird. I started with Bafangs. I ditched my HD by three weeks. Sure it was powerful and sort of thrilling at first, but also boring. Different strokes for different folks. There is even good justification for the Specialized Haul hub drive for people who don't know how to shift a mid-drive and want a throttle because it is mindless.

C'mon. You know better than that......

 

[PedalUma]

Okay how about it it effortless?
Just for me, I like tender steak, but still like to chew! I want a bike to push-back some so I can feel it.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I can easily (have) spend that or more on a Grin kit.

I can easily (have) spend that or more on whisky_women and a mind altering weekend.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yeah I have blown that much on a BBSHD, easy. Did I need an HD power level? No but long ago I stopped shopping around because having a BBSHD on every bike means I only need one pool of spare parts and they work for any bike in the fleet. So don't use the differences in performance as my deciding factor.

• $500 for the bare motor (and thats cheap!)
• $10 for a throttle
• $15 for a speed sensor
• $35 for a wiring harness
• $90 for a display

That takes us to $650. But the crankarms are garbage and anyone who wants to put strength into pedaling needs something properly robust. There is one set of Steps E6100 crankarms on Ebay for $60 delivered. And if you can live with the lesser inset, a Deruiz chainring is good quality, only $70 and replaces the garbage 46T steel throwing disc of death.

With those more or less low-level upgrades, you are now up to $780.

If instead you take that $650 and you add Lekkie Buzz Bars (to give yourself a forged crankarms with a left offset to properly line them up). Those are $145. A simple 42T Bling Ring? Another $145. You just hit $940. If instead you need a 40T ring and a motor cover so it fits? Thats $225 and you are now at $1020.

You don't need to do that stuff with a Cyc. Its all inclusive with quality bits, so when people compare costs to a Bafang motor I see apples and oranges. The decision should be based on things other than costs because the two - when equipped with quality parts - are essentially the same.

Wonder why CYC has no chain rings in the 40's?
34, 38 and 50? Where's the logic there?

 

[kb_79]

D'accord, que diriez-vous de cela sans effort ?
Juste pour moi, j'aime le steak tendre, mais j'aime quand même mâcher ! Je veux un vélo pour en repousser certains afin que je puisse le sentir.

To have this feeling, it is enough simply not to put 100% on the speed of rotation in this kind for 5 levels

 

[Gionnirocket]

Okay how about it it effortless?
Just for me, I like tender steak, but still like to chew! I want a bike to push-back some so I can feel it.

I can honestly say that I use my throttle <0.05% time/distance traveled but I do use it on >95% of my daily rides.
I like my steak tender too... and I also like to chew, but a little salt makes the experience better as well.
So just think of a throttle as a little salt.
And I for one will never own an ebike sans throttle.

 

[AHicks]

Okay how about it it effortless?
Just for me, I like tender steak, but still like to chew! I want a bike to push-back some so I can feel it.

Where does this assumption come from, that because the bike has a throttle, it somehow changes the character of the bike? WHERE IS THE LOGIC behind this thought???

I'm an 8 year old. Please explain in terms I can understand.....

 

[PedalUma]

I respect differences. What I like is probably weird. The biggie for me as a preference is to have pedaling speed match chainring speed. I will sometimes make a torque sensor bike with a throttle if that is what someone wants. Or even a ghost pedal bike with a throttle. That is just not my cup of tea. I remember riding an Orbea Gain. They look like a spandex clip in road bike. You can put it at full power and pedal with no feel at 10 rpm and it will hit its max Euro speed of 15 mph, then take a dump. In my opinion, for the way I ride, that experience is not for me. Here is where I rode gravel today.

 

[mclewis1]

There are actually many different reasons or benefits of a throttle ... beyond the "don't ever want to pedal" shtick on a Super 73 style ebike.

For example in my case I really enjoy riding a bicycle in a traditional manner (ebike or not) at higher cadences, but in and around traffic in my local neighbourhood I also love the use of a throttle when crossing intersections and maneuvering through parking lots and such. So much so that any new ebike I might consider would also have to have a throttle. Unfortunately for the possible commercial choices I also like the 40+km top speed I get from a 52v battery ... so I'm essentially riding a class 3+ road of hybrid bike, and that means DIY only.

 

[AHicks]

Re: throttle vs. none, ride whatever you like/suits your needs. There's NO WRONG ANSWER here! Hassling those that have decided differently than you is uncalled for.....

 

[UpCollinUP]

Wonder why CYC has no chain rings in the 40's?
34, 38 and 50? Where's the logic there?

CYC focus has always been focused on off-road conversions which work better with the smaller changings. My assumption is over the next 6 months or so we'll see their selection fill out.

At least I'm hoping so, because I really need like a 46 for my photon

 

[Gionnirocket]

CYC focus has always been focused on off-road conversions which work better with the smaller changings. My assumption is over the next 6 months or so we'll see their selection fill out.

At least I'm hoping so, because I really need like a 46 for my photon

Currently 46t is my chain ring of choice on the BBS02B.

 

[UpCollinUP]

I respect differences. What I like is probably weird. The biggie for me as a preference is to have pedaling speed match chainring speed. I will sometimes make a torque sensor bike with a throttle if that is what someone wants. Or even a ghost pedal bike with a throttle. That is just not my cup of tea. I remember riding an Orbea Gain. They look like a spandex clip in road bike. You can put it at full power and pedal with no feel at 10 rpm and it will hit its max Euro speed of 15 mph, then take a dump. In my opinion, for the way I ride, that experience is not for me. Here is where I rode gravel today.
View attachment 151441

For me it's application-specific versus how just they feel, my torque-sensing bike with the photon that I posted above is an incredibly natural riding experience and one that I prefer almost all the time.

However where I live in Seattle when it's raining and I'm commuting or running errands (I'm car-free) I take the cadence-sensing fat tire bike. I'm not there to have fun I'm moving as easily as I can through my errands or commute without getting sweaty in my rain jacket.

So for fun torque sensing, for "work" cadence sense seems to work best for me. At least right now, the next few years will be pretty interesting as we start getting direct mag drives and such.

 

[EVEN FATTER THAN THE BOZO BUT CAN RIDE]

New to this forum, as well as this being my first foray into eMTB, but been riding mountain bikes since the late 80's. I recently installed a CYC Photon motor, SW102 controller and thumb throttle, as well as a CYC B-52 battery pack, onto a 29er titanium hardtail with a Rock Shox Pike fork set to 140 mm of travel and set up as singlespeed with a 34/18 gearset. Total bike weight of 41.25 pounds. Initial results have been mixed as I've had what seems to be overheating on each of my first 4 shakedown rides. I've done maybe 3-4 miles of a gradual grade uphill on mixed surfaces (mostly road then some smooth dirt rail trail), and by the time I get up to the top, the motor stops providing propulsion but may or may not be displaying wattage output while pedaling back home. These rides are way less taxing than trail rides I normally do, but I'm seeing motor temps upwards of 180 F by the time the motor stops providing propulsion. Weather has been < 60 F and overcast.

Yesterday, I experienced a weird throttle issue where my speed was displaying 4 mph (was moving much faster than 4 mph) but the throttle stayed on even after being released.

Some bugs to work out, but when it is working, the bike is fast and feels great. I've got some emails in to [email protected] to see if they can help me sort out my bugs. I'll report back as I get more information.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I just can't do a motor where the chainring moves at a different rate than the crank arms. For me that is totally disconnected and weird. I started with Bafangs. I ditched my HD by three weeks. Sure it was powerful and sort of thrilling at first, but also boring. Different strokes for different folks. There is even good justification for the Specialized Haul hub drive for people who don't know how to shift a mid-drive and want a throttle because it is mindless.

You're really missing the fundamental point about being able to tune these things... and perhaps that's why you lost interest in the HD.
I have the BBS02B being as gentle as I want and as powerful as I need all at my finger tips by changing PAS. And the chain ring and cranks rotate at the same rate as each PAS is set to a specific cadence.
Since these motors have more than adequate power for us casual / exercise riders, they need to be tamed and tuned to our bikes, weight and specific needs.
If you have a programming cable and access to a BBS* I can send you an .el file that you will probably appreciate. It won't be perfect for anyone else but me and my bike, but it will be much different than a stock motor and you will see how much more natural it can be.

 

[kb_79]

You're really missing the fundamental point about being able to tune these things... and perhaps that's why you lost interest in the HD.
I have the BBS02B being as gentle as I want and as powerful as I need all at my finger tips by changing PAS. And the chain ring and cranks rotate at the same rate as each PAS is set to a specific cadence.
Since these motors have more than adequate power for us casual / exercise riders, they need to be tamed and tuned to our bikes, weight and specific needs.
If you have a programming cable and access to a BBS* I can send you an .el file that you will probably appreciate. It won't be perfect for anyone else but me and my bike, but it will be much different than a stock motor and you will see how much more natural it can be.

@Gionnirocket And you have not yet tested the BBS-FW on the GitHub which is almost stable apart from the gear change sensor, Now I finally have a progressive accelerator

 

[tomjasz]

Re: throttle vs. none, ride whatever you like/suits your needs. There's NO WRONG ANSWER here! Hassling those that have decided differently than you is uncalled for.....

I’m OK with the comments from pedaluma. I get it and he’s no threat to md and my throttle. I also accept the for some and his customers a sustainable alternative to a Bosch style duos important. Fair enough!

 

[Gionnirocket]

@Gionnirocket And you have not yet tested the BBS-FW on the GitHub which is almost stable apart from the gear change sensor, Now I finally have a progressive accelerator

But I do not use a gear change sensor
I have no need
With my programming I have two acceleration curves. With a micro pedaling pause it is gentle and even.. even with PAS increase. With continuous pedaling it is more aggressive with PAS increase but still smooth.
As for stopping the motor for gear change.. That is easily accomplished by with a micro pedal pause or very slight touch on the brake lever.