The likely incoming 750w limit

[Chargeride]

This will be an issue in the US as they move towards alignment with Europe.
I think 750 is sensible, the lazy me wants 1000.
Im actually more interested in the pedal overun and climb assist software that is well into the grey area, whatever or wherever that lays.
The race has to stop somewhere, the DJI Avinox is now capable of constant boost mode.

 

[stompandgo]

As expected, their perspective is from an MTB rider. That's certainly valid, but plenty of us don't ride off road. If a power limit is put in place in the US, how will bikes be classified? I mean, even in deep blue Massachusetts, our state doesn't even recognize Class 3 bikes like mine. They are essentially unregulated, for now. This may catch up with me eventually.

So if power limits are imposed, how is that limit chosen for each kind of bike? What about cargo bikes, which use power completely differently than a commuter bike?

What is the intent of these power limits? Is it a response to hooners who disobey the law? Why not enforce existing laws instead? Why not stick to the current class system, and require registration for anything other than Class1-3? I mean, I can drive like a butthead in a 150hp Corolla or a 750hp Corvette. What ever happened to personal responsibility?

A couple of days ago, I was driving on a main street with sidewalks that has several schools on it. The speed limit is 20mph when the lights are flashing, as they were. So as I'm heading north at 20 or so mph, this kid on an electric scooter is coming towards me on the sidewalk, and he is BURNIN'. At least 30, maybe 40mph. All of a sudden, the traffic stops in both directions, and a cop pulls out with the blues on, chasing after that kid. I didn't stick around to see what happened.

So are electric scooters, skateboards, hoverboards, or whatever electric contraption comes next, going to have power limits and require registration?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Chargeride I think you don't understand the current European (including British) law. No one stops you to get an L1e-A or a power bicycle even today. It is 25 km/h and up to 1000 W. Only you need to do some formalities (I'm not aware what these are).

For me, the power is not the issue. It is the speed limit.

 

[twy]

Unfortunately enforcing a speed limit can only yield limited success. Hence politicians/administrators will opt eventually for limiting the available speed capability or power of bikes or even more bans. My son's college just decided that next year no electrics will be allowed on campus. He only has a switch kit bike so I am looking for a way to stealth the battery.

Where I live, kids with fast e-bikes are becoming a real problem. Another very popular craze has the kids removing their front wheels on their regular bikes and riding through traffic in a constant wheelie. The other day a car stopped short and a kid planted his front forks onto the car's trunk. By the time the driver got out he was long gone.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

Where I live, kids with fast e-bikes are becoming a real problem. Another very popular craze has the kids removing their front wheels on their regular bikes and riding through traffic in a constant wheelie. The other day a car stopped short and a kid planted his front forks onto the car's trunk. By the time the driver got out he was long gone.

I see the same thing. Saw one kid get in to an argument when he clipped a stopped car. Kids like this are the reason for laws like this. If they were even the slightest bit conscious of their actions we would be ok, but they don’t give a F and the parents are all like, “my kid would never do that, how dare you”. Welp, they do. Gotta love America and all the freedoms.

 

[indianajo]

The problem with watt limits, they regulate climbing ability instead of speed. IE if I am going to carry groceries to my summer camp, I now need a $20000 car instead of a 1000 w bicycle. Or a **** noisy gas scooter. No exercise possible with either of those. The 2018 1300 w ebikeling hub motor was great until it wore out, the 1000 w MAC12t was great until it wore out. No more of those available. I've burned 3 motors under 1000 w, including a 750 w one. Or I could buy a mid-drive, limit my climbing speed up 12% to 1 mph with a 52 rear sprocket, and buy a new display every time it rains. The controllers on ebay run without a display, only a "door" switch.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

Limiting bike speed seems like it would make more sense than a power limit. Imagine if cars had a power limit, instead of a speed limit.

 

[stompandgo]

Speed limiters on US cars are typically set at around twice the legal limit on highways, around 120+ mph. I can do 120mph on a local road if I want. How does a speed limiter stop that? I am firmly against any kind of limiting. Enforce the laws. Throw the kids on the Super 73's and homemade bikes in jail. If they cause an accident, cite them. Enforcement is the best deterrent.

 

[Chargeride]

As expected, their perspective is from an MTB rider. That's certainly valid, but plenty of us don't ride off road. If a power limit is put in place in the US, how will bikes be classified? I mean, even in deep blue Massachusetts, our state doesn't even recognize Class 3 bikes like mine. They are essentially unregulated, for now. This may catch up with me eventually.

So if power limits are imposed, how is that limit chosen for each kind of bike? What about cargo bikes, which use power completely differently than a commuter bike?

What is the intent of these power limits? Is it a response to hooners who disobey the law? Why not enforce existing laws instead? Why not stick to the current class system, and require registration for anything other than Class1-3? I mean, I can drive like a butthead in a 150hp Corolla or a 750hp Corvette. What ever happened to personal responsibility?

A couple of days ago, I was driving on a main street with sidewalks that has several schools on it. The speed limit is 20mph when the lights are flashing, as they were. So as I'm heading north at 20 or so mph, this kid on an electric scooter is coming towards me on the sidewalk, and he is BURNIN'. At least 30, maybe 40mph. All of a sudden, the traffic stops in both directions, and a cop pulls out with the blues on, chasing after that kid. I didn't stick around to see what happened.

So are electric scooters, skateboards, hoverboards, or whatever electric contraption comes next, going to have power limits and require registration?

its their status as a pedal cycle that is at risk, a 70mph city car and a Bugatti Veryon are the same class with the same road rights, only a power and speed restricted ebike with no throttle can be used on cycle paths and mtb trails.
If they limit to 750 then above that you are road only and private tracks only.

 

[Chazmo]

Speaking as an American here...

I’ve read whatever law there is here in Massachusetts, and frankly anything that mentions technology particulars — especially voltage or wattage — is ludicrous and woefully incomplete. That stuff has no place in the regs.

As Chris said earlier, our state doesn’t even have up-to-date regs including class 3 regulation. The only thing that should be in the regs is speed and “traffic” concerns.

I’m not quite sure how to address what @twy said earlier about kids riding irresponsibly, but if they’re speeding or mixing it up with car traffic, I think there are appropriate traffic regs or perhaps disturbing the peace regs that law officers can enforce. This one’s a bit of a toughie, though. Nothing new about kids causing trouble...

 

[Chargeride]

@Chargeride I think you don't understand the current European (including British) law. No one stops you to get an L1e-A or a power bicycle even today. It is 25 km/h and up to 1000 W. Only you need to do some formalities (I'm not aware what these are).

For me, the power is not the issue. It is the speed limit.

well yes, its no longer a pedal cycle and becomes a motorised vehicle.

 

[Biplaneguy]

Speed limits would seem to make the most sense. Going over 28 mph on level ground? Write the rider a ticket for unregistered motor vehicle. But then you can go a lot faster than 28 mph downhill even on an unpowered bike, I can get up to 35 mph on a not too steep hill near my house, even though the pedal assist cuts out at 28. Perhaps the solution is to restrict ebikes to age 16+.

I'm still trying to figure out the NY State laws.

 

[Roamers]

Back to basics: Don't be a douche rider and nobody will care what you are riding.

 

[Chargeride]

i saw a guy today riding a cross a famous bridge, massive frame battery, huge direct drive hub, like 10kw job.
Speakers the size of shoe boxes on his handlebars, knocking out rap at 200 decibels.
And heres me worrying about possibly getting a speedbox.

 

[Chazmo]

Speed limits would seem to make the most sense. Going over 28 mph on level ground? Write the rider a ticket for unregistered motor vehicle. But then you can go a lot faster than 28 mph downhill even on an unpowered bike, I can get up to 35 mph on a not too steep hill near my house, even though the pedal assist cuts out at 28. Perhaps the solution is to restrict ebikes to age 16+.

I'm still trying to figure out the NY State laws.

The “class” regulations in place are very much oriented this way already, Biplaneguy — even though they’re incomplete and not universal within the US... And, for the most part these regs make sense, even though they get into some unenforceable details. The whole business of throttle-only limitation is kind of reasonable. But, of course, if you’re pedaling and/or if you’re going downhil (and even if your coasting downhill), anything but speed limit regs is stupid and totally unenforceable.

As for restricting ebikes to say 16+, adults, or even licensed drivers… That ain’t gonna’ fly in the US. I think that would be a terrible mess if gov’t tries that. They could try restricting sales of ebikes to adults, but I doubt that would fly either.

If you do get a handle on the NY laws, I’d be interested to compare notes. I’m worried about Massachusetts going off the deep end given the politics going on here, and I tend to like to avoid stupidity.

 

[harryS]

I am in Illinois, which had the same 3 class definitions lifted from California statutes 8 years ago, I could not see how they allowed class three bikes to have throttles, but we had a bricks and mortar ebike dealer and also a forum member in my town, who insisted they did. He got banned. I don't think we need any redefinitions here.

We do have some under 16 kids with ebikes that aren't legal, but I see everyone using our bike paths. Saw a guy on an unpowered unicyle crash least week. Powered one wheel a few days later. It's rare to see an old fashioned skateboard, Most have motors. Another guy with these roller balls you put on your shoes yesterday,

My bikes are out-of-spec too, but no one is going to bother us. Yesterday we went to an amazon store, and the help staff wanted to personally run our stuff thru self check because they figured we looked like confused seniors. Maybe we look like that when we ride. I tried to buy a 3 year fishing license last year at the bait shop, and the guy told ne to stick with a one year, and see what happens.,

 

[stompandgo]

well yes, its no longer a pedal cycle and becomes a motorised vehicle.

My Class 3 e-bike IS a pedal bike. On flat ground, if I don't pedal, it doesn't go. Keep the regulations to throttle bikes.

In hundreds if thousands of miles of riding my road racing pedal bike on public roads, I have never been even approached by law enforcement for exceeding the speed limit. For rolling a stop sign, yes.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

Back to basics: Don't be a douche rider and nobody will care what you are riding.

WORD!

My bike can peak at 1250 watts, though I rarely go over 20mph. I only go faster when I have to merge with traffic to dodge a garbage can, road closure sign, or the occasional delivery truck. I also have front and rear blinkers to help drivers identify which way I’m heading. I also use hand (not finger) signals. They can see the hand signals when I am close to them. I just hope (and pray) they know what it all means.

 

[BlackHand]

As for restricting ebikes to say 16+, adults, or even licensed drivers… That ain’t gonna’ fly in the US. I think that would be a terrible mess if gov’t tries that

Use of class 3 ebikes are limited to those age 16+ in my state and in many/most states as far as I know.

 

[Chazmo]

Use of class 3 ebikes are limited to those age 16+ in my state and in many/most states as far as I know.

Oy. Now I’m going to have to go back and re-read the regs, BlackHand. Not that Massachusetts even recognizes class 3, but it’s time to reacquaint myself with them. I’ll make some STRONG coffee tomorrow morning.