You Really Do Get What You Paid For (Motors)

[PedalUma]

Yeah oddly enough the 'little' Sondors Fold is hydroformed so its not like they couldn't do it. At least they didn't put a 7spd on that one like they did on their other two mid drives; instead opting for a pretty decent SRAM 11s drivetrain. But as for round/oval tubing... remember they had a mandate to use the common 21ah/48v battery pack and that monster pretty much dictates a squared down tube. Its not a great choice for mountain bike riders but again that bike is shaped like a serious mountain bike, but its not meant to be one.

The Sondors Ultra shifter, derailleur, freewheel cogs all suck. The gears are made of cheese. Gear range is limited and the cage is short. If you upgrade these watch out. The gear sensor is way down under the battery and the motor packs a capacitor charge. The shift cable needs to be fed through that hidden gear sensor. Using tandem cable helps so you can make a big loop to make the bend.

 

[Jon A]

but listen to that motor! (5 and 6 and 7 and 11 and 12 and 14 minutes in). Does that sound like a quality motor to you? That thing whines more than......The bafang ultra sounds like a loud, old broken down clunker, whereas the Bosch and Shimano are smooth like butter.

That's kind of like saying you watched a video of a Corvette and you can't believe how loud and "low quality" the engine sounded.

The Ultra isn't as loud as that video makes it sound. It sounded like that guy was lugging it quite a bit as well. There's nothing "low quality" or "broken down" or "clunker" about the sound in real life. There are quite a few videos of the "Shimano motor Rattle..." which fit those descriptions a lot better to my ear, but I haven't heard them in person so I don't go around badmouthing them.

There's a whole lot more to "quality" of an ebike motor than sound. Some of the people in the many pages long threads who are on their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc, motor of the brands you mention, some replaced by warranty some not, may have some opinions on the matter that differ from yours.

 

[tommybgood]

An additional issue, motor aside, is how BAD the geometry is on so many e-bikes. I've already reviewed the pedego element:

Pedego Element Review (20" Fat Bike)

I had a chance to demo the Pedego Element. It's similar enough to the Lectric 1.0 and 2.0 that I thought it might serve as a good proxy. This is going to be a brief list and discussion of the bike's pros and cons. Pros: 1. it's reasonably light! I was surprised that the bike was fairly easy to...

electricbikereview.com

That bike had terrible geometry and therefore awful balance. I get that many e-bikes are being marketed to older riders who haven't ridden in a while. An upright riding position can be especially appealing, test ride or not, for an older rider with poor flexibility or a heavier rider who has trouble leaning over. However, the front wheel needs to be weighted properly or the bike is just going to flop over in slower speed riding.

The Aventon Aventure suffers from a similar problem. It is extremely unstable in slower speed riding, again because the upright riding position makes it impossible to weight the front wheel, and also because the terrible controller programming requires an unpredictable number of partial pedal revolutions before it starts.

Basically these bikes rely on a huge amount of brute force from the motor to remain upright but in slow speed handling these bikes are absolutely awful.

I suspect a lot of newer and even experienced riders are having accidents due to the terrible geometry and unpredictable motor response of these cheaper bikes. Amazingly, no one is complaining about these get rich quick importers for some reason or at the very least warning others.

 

[m@Robertson]

I couldn't ride any Pedego without crashing immediately. I wouldn't be able to see where I'm going with a paper bag over my head. Removing it and revealing my secret identity would not be an unacceptable solution.

 

[PedalUma]

I have some news to report regarding motors. I ordered three motors from a new seller for me, Emotor, six weeks ago. They did not pay some portion of the shipping fees. Tracking stalled in San Francisco. They said it was my problem. After using the PayPal dispute process the fee was paid yesterday. I could have easily lost the case as it normally defaults to the seller. Then I would not have the product and be out my money. I am never using them again. I will see if there are actual motors in the boxes or rocks as part of a scam.

 

[Cstefan]

An additional issue, motor aside, is how BAD the geometry is on so many e-bikes.

There really is no excuse. The principles of bicycle geometry have been long understood. There are many examples of well designed upright and semi-upright bikes that are stable at low speeds.

 

[Johnny]

The next chapter:
You don't always get what you pay for.

 

[PedalUma]

I can see two reasons for bad geometry. 1) Bikes made for a 'look' that people will buy. 2) Bikes that feel great when sitting on one for 37 seconds in a showroom. American cars were sold in these two ways for years. Sitting in the car during a test ride the seat felt like a sofa and you had stylish things like fins. But an overly cushy seat is not comfortable on a long trip and fins don't do anything at normal speeds. The Dutch bikes have an upright position and handle well at low speeds.

 

[Jon A]

An additional issue, motor aside, is how BAD the geometry is on so many e-bikes.

Oh, I agree completely about the geometry of many of these entry level bikes. However, this thread was specific to the motors themselves. You don't have to put the motor in such a bike. The geometry on mine is pretty darn good--very stable at ridiculously high speeds over ground so rough it would destroy many of the most popular "quality" bikes on this board.

And of course the motor is tuned such that the problems you describe are eliminated or reduced to the level they're a non-issue.

 

[Cstefan]

I’d love to see some Bafang Ultra builds that aren’t fat bikes. My use case is commuting/utility so I’m not really interested in full suspension or mountain bike geometries.

The closest I’m seeing to what I want out there is the WW UC2. There are also some nice Bosch mid-drive options out there, mostly R&M models.

 

[PedalUma]

I got those motors after winning the dispute. I will need to do a lot of splicing an soldering. I won't go into detail other than if I used them the way they sent them there would be three feet of extra wire at the handlebar and a fat bundle leading up to it with ugly connectors. It could 'work' but would look like crap. Here is one I converted today with a clean HB.

 

[AHicks]

I’d love to see some Bafang Ultra builds that aren’t fat bikes. My use case is commuting/utility so I’m not really interested in full suspension or mountain bike geometries.

The closest I’m seeing to what I want out there is the WW UC2. There are also some nice Bosch mid-drive options out there, mostly R&M models.

This bike comes to mind....

Rize RX: Unleash the Ultimate Power with the Most Powerful E-Bike Mid-Drive Motor

Discover the Rize RX, the e-bike with the most powerful mid-drive motor on the market. Experience unmatched torque, comfort, and extended range up to 80 miles. Embark on unforgettable off-road adventures with our robust 52v system and 1000w Bafang motor. Your journey to the wild starts here...

rizebikes.ca

I bought the Rx PRo which is the fatty version of that bike, which for my riding 'druthers (mostly paved) turned out to be a (expensive) mistake. Currently in the process of converting it to 27.5". Betting others will find this out the hard way as I did, and you'll eventualy see more of the Ultra based hard tails set up for street with 27.5" wheels....

 

[Bubba zanetti]

This bike comes to mind....

Rize RX: Unleash the Ultimate Power with the Most Powerful E-Bike Mid-Drive Motor

Discover the Rize RX, the e-bike with the most powerful mid-drive motor on the market. Experience unmatched torque, comfort, and extended range up to 80 miles. Embark on unforgettable off-road adventures with our robust 52v system and 1000w Bafang motor. Your journey to the wild starts here...

rizebikes.ca

I bought the Rx PRo which is the fatty version of that bike, which for my riding 'druthers (mostly paved) turned out to be a (expensive) mistake. Currently in the process of converting it to 27.5". Betting others will find this out the hard way as I did, and you'll eventualy see more of the Ultra based hard tails set up for street with 27.5" wheels....

Just put 2.6 Johnny Watts on my RX. Quite the difference from the noisy stock 2.4 Knobblies. Handles better, feels quicker to accelerate and quite quiet too. Very nice. On my motorcycle, I would call them dual sport tires or SUV type tires.

 

[AHicks]

Just put 2.6 Johnny Watts on my RX. Quite the difference from the noisy stock 2.4 Knobblies. Handles better, feels quicker to accelerate and quite quiet too. Very nice. On my motorcycle, I would call them dual sport tires or SUV type tires.

From what I've read, going with any of the 27.5+ sizes will be a good plan. Hybrid, dual sport, whatever you want to call them. I've converted my geared hub city bikes to 2.4" Schwalbe Supermoto's and LOVE them. Great ride with little rolling resistance, so anxious to try the Schwalbe Supermoto 2.8" on the Ultra bike. Hope is I can get the ride and lack of rolling resistance similar to the 2.4", without the bulk and self steering issues the 26" fat street tires suffer from. We'll see here in just a few weeks.

 

[PedalUma]

This is from three years ago. It was a Big Box bike. A Nishiki Colorado 650B. I ditched the MTB tires and went for the MotoX.

 

[AHicks]

This is from three years ago. It was a Big Box bike. A Nishiki Colorado 650B. I ditched the MTB tires and went for the MotoX.

Nice looking bike for sure. The Super Moto's seem to be a well guarded secret. Surprised more haven't tripped into them like I did. On the bike in the picture, I don't think I'd want to try anything bigger for sure! Chain to tire clearance OK when in 1st gear?

 

[Fatknee]

Recently upgraded to 2.8x27.
5 Schwalbe Nobby Nics. Awesome improvement in ride quality on the gravel and off road. Grip is very predictable in the wet.

And they were on sale for half off!

 

[PedalUma]

Nice looking bike for sure. The Super Moto's seem to be a well guarded secret. Surprised more haven't tripped into them like I did. On the bike in the picture, I don't think I'd want to try anything bigger for sure! Chain to tire clearance OK when in 1st gear?

The asymmetrical chain stays were a problem on that bike. See how on the right it goes over the chain and not through it. I had to use a little chain ring or the chain would rub on the stay. It ate the small cog of the cassette quickly. I sold it to a contractor for $999 after zapping the charge port and stopped making heavy throttle bikes, except for a couple of HD's. It is all part of paying tuition. The bike after that had a 58-t chain ring! That was just as dumb in the other direction.