Who spent a lot on their E-bike? Was it worth it?

[rich c]

I am too, but if you have bike trails in your area it's easy to reduce risk by preferentially taking bike trails to get to where you want to go. For me at least my commute is almost entirely along a bike trail or otherwise grade separated from car traffic. I do go slower because of pedestrians and other bikes, but it's a small price to pay for reducing risk.

Edit: Also keep in mind that part of the value of a more powerful ebike is that when you do have to share the road with cars you can reduce risk by reducing the speed differential. If you have 50 feet before impact a 5 mph speed differential gives a lot more time for someone to react than a 20 mph speed differential.

Sure would like to see some science to support that. Which is worse? Getting hit by a car going 45 and I’m going 20, or 28mph. Wonder if my broken bones won’t be broken as badly with one or the other? Will I loose more skin since I was doing 28mph, or will I slide less because there was only a 17mph differential vs 25mph differential?

 

[joshuaho96]

Sure would like to see some science to support that. Which is worse? Getting hit by a car going 45 and I’m going 20, or 28mph. Wonder if my broken bones won’t be broken as badly with one or the other? Will I loose more skin since I was doing 28mph, or will I slide less because there was only a 17mph differential vs 25mph differential?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve

Speed differential is a big, big driving factor in probability of getting into an accident in the first place. As a general rule, the greater the speed differential the greater the likelihood of a fatality as well: http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/conferences/2011/RSS/1/Shelby,S.pdf

That paper is interested primarily in conflicts between cars, so you're probably also interested in whether increased speed at the time of crash correlates with fatality or injury rates. The answer is yes, but very weakly, with factors like proper helmet use being a much bigger driver: https://www.researchgate.net/profil...&+severity+-FINAL+-+2013-09-03+w+page+num.pdf

I would argue that if you are losing skin on an ebike from a fall you have not geared for the fall at all. I can understand going without a helmet and wearing thin clothing if your plan is to ride at 5-10 mph on a trail without cars. But if you are going at speeds more like 28 mph on public roads with cars going 30-35 mph then you should gear up with the assumption that it is a matter of when, not if, you will fall off the bike at 28 mph and gear appropriately so you will walk away unscathed. It is impossible to control for possibilities like being run over by a car, slamming into a tree, or a curb, but fundamentally riding a bike no matter the form is a dangerous activity in the US. At least with an ebike you can gear up without overheating.

 

[The duke]

Sure would like to see some science to support that. Which is worse? Getting hit by a car going 45 and I’m going 20, or 28mph. Wonder if my broken bones won’t be broken as badly with one or the other? Will I loose more skin since I was doing 28mph, or will I slide less because there was only a 17mph differential vs 25mph differential?

I think you've narrowed it down too far, to a direct rear ender. What about head on collisions, cars running stop signs, people opening the doors of their parked cars, cars pulling out of driveways. Getting directly rear ended while you're traveling at top speed is going to break out as only a small fraction of potential impacts and the only one where faster MIGHT equal better

 

[joshuaho96]

I think you've narrowed it down too far, to a direct rear ender. What about head on collisions, cars running stop signs, people opening the doors of their parked cars, cars pulling out of driveways. Getting directly rear ended while you're traveling at top speed is going to break out as only a small fraction of potential impacts and the only one where faster MIGHT equal better

Head on collisions - you can stop, getting good brakes is a core part of having something safe. I think this is much rarer, especially if you are mostly in areas where traffic lights are protected lefts.
Getting doored/getting t-boned - if you go fast enough, you can take the lane. When I ride in the bike lanes I always hug the left edge to reduce the chance of getting doored and to be able to have some more time to slow down if someone pulls out. If you ride in the car lanes you definitely have more time to see cars that might be pulling out.
Failing to yield at a stop sign - always, always establish eye contact and make sure cross traffic stops. Once you establish that you are going, get through the intersection as quickly as possible to reduce the time window that you could get t-boned.

If you want to be safe, by far the greatest solution to be safe is to stay off the road with cars and bike on dedicated bikeways or bike trails where you can go slower. Failing that, the next safest thing is to ride on the road and take the lane. If you want to take the lane without being run off the road, you need to be fast enough to avoid constant traffic conflicts with cars.

Edit: Forgot to mention, a core practice I recommend when riding a bike is to not swerve across 3 lanes of traffic when making a left turn. This is a dangerous maneuver even when driving and the danger is even higher on a bike. Keep right and then do a 90 degree turn in the crosswalk area so that you can wait for the light to go straight through to complete the turn. It might take an extra 30-40 seconds but it is a lot more predictable and less dangerous.

 

[Off road all day]

Let me continue from the mountain bike perspective. The bikes are heavy....50+ lbs. The geometries are weird....doesnt seem like most manufacturers have mastered how the weight should sit. The engines are winy and underpowered (mids at 250W) and the batteries really aren't there as far as tech goes. A full day of riding is a stretch for most ebikes, much less a weekend in the mountains.

Hub drives overheat and feel disconnected, mid drives snap chains, give drag and feel notchy. Sure todays bikes are great and lots of fun, but still in an infancy. I'm really excited to see a silent, seemless extension of my legs that weighs 15kg and can assist me to whatever speed I like while still feeling stable, whether up or down a hill. I want shocks that don't need to be locked out while not giving any bobbing feeling, yet soaking up way more of the bumps. I want its engine and battery to be completely invisible and I want everything to last at least as long as thr 100,000 miles I expect from my car. I want a frame strong enough to strap in a 2nd seat to ride my 8 year old from school, and I want enough space for a waterbottle! I want bluetooth connectivity, app interface and wireless lighting. If I drop $12,000 on a bike today, you bet, if Im being honest with myself, it'll fall short in many ways, and Ill be itching for a new one in a few years and feeling a little remorse over my lighter wallet.

The bike i have is 450 watts and is seamless between driver and motor, takes getting used to throttle to peddle, couple of days but no problem, sometimes i had to catch up, other times i had to gear up but it's a live and learn. I broke the back shifter cable and locked it in one gear with a longer adjustment screw, replaced the cable but still have not replaced the screw. It's right on for peddle/motor and weight. Trial, error and driver ability.

 

[6zfshdb]

Not true.

Study: 90% Of Bike Accidents Preventable By Buying Car Like A Normal Person

WASHINGTON—Saying it was a simple but effective measure to reduce potentially deadly incidents, a study published Monday by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found that 90 percent of bike accidents could be prevented by buying a car like a normal person. “Our data confirm that the vast majority of cyclist injuries can be avoided simply by driving an automobile instead of biking around like some weirdo,” said lead researcher Dr. Laura Gafferty, adding that while bicycle riding was perfectly acceptable for children under 12, it was not recommended for any actual grown-up who wasn’t competing in the Tour de France or similar event where it wasn’t completely ridiculous. “Regular people drive cars because it’s the normal and not the abnormal thing to do. If every cyclist purchased and operated a car like you’re supposed to as an adult, bike fatalities would drop an estimated 40 percent within six months alone.” Gafferty went on to say that people who biked for exercise should consider driving to a gym and using a stationary bike facing a wall of televisions like everyone else.

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry after reading this tripe! Dr. Laura Gafferty is either accepting money from the automobile industry lobby or she is a complete idiot! What really amazes me is she is an appointed public official!

 

[joshuaho96]

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry after reading this tripe! Dr. Laura Gafferty is either accepting money from the automobile industry lobby or she is a complete idiot! What really amazes me is she is an appointed public official!

It's satire.

 

[6zfshdb]

It's satire.

Yes, the article is satirical but when a public official is quoted making a statement like that, it's scary.

 

[DDBB]

I will answer the OP's question honestly. While I agree with others that regardless of cost, the e-bike has been one of the best purchases I have ever made. That being said, I think the going prices for these things is ridiculous. IMO my trekking Haibike should cost around a grand. I bought mine as a leftover model and saved some coin but it was still over 2k and another 2k for the wifes step through e-bike. Good thing I saved and invested a lot during my working years. These e-bikes are beyond the reach of the average American IMO. I also think as the industry matures, prices will come down... WAY down.

 

[The duke]

I will answer the OP's question honestly. While I agree with others that regardless of cost, the e-bike has been one of the best purchases I have ever made. That being said, I think the going prices for these things is ridiculous. IMO my trekking Haibike should cost around a grand. I bought mine as a leftover model and saved some coin but it was still over 2k and another 2k for the wifes step through e-bike. Good thing I saved and invested a lot during my working years. These e-bikes are beyond the reach of the average American IMO. I also think as the industry matures, prices will come down... WAY down.

I agree with you. I think (hope) we'll look back in a few years and be shocked at what we were paying for inferior tech. Hoping for sub 30lb bikes with batteries measured in kilowatts in a few years

 

[Nova Haibike]

I think the going prices for these things is ridiculous. IMO my trekking Haibike should cost around a grand. I bought mine as a leftover model and saved some coin but it was still over 2k and another 2k for the wifes step through e-bike.

Budget "acoustic" bikes at an LBS cost $600; mid-range $1000-1500, and the high quality ones are even more. Even if batteries and motors could be made less expensively, I think it would be very difficult for prices to drop significantly.

 

[The duke]

Budget "acoustic" bikes at an LBS cost $600; mid-range $1000-1500, and the high quality ones are even more. Even if batteries and motors could be made less expensively, I think it would be very difficult for prices to drop significantly.

Maybe at the higher end.... but i see so many Chinese bikes from no name manufacturers with crappy components going for over two grand when their pedal only counterparts would never pass $7-800. Maybe not massive price increases but theres room to come down. I think same goes for the nice brands running $6-8000

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Maybe at the higher end.... but i see so many Chinese books from no name manufacturers with crappy components going for over two grand when their pedal only counterparts would never pass $7-800. Maybe not massive price increases but theres room to come down. I think same goes for the nice brands running $6-8000

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and obviously aren't shy about sharing it.

There are lots of high-end (non-electric) bike companies in the states selling as many bikes as they can make for well north of $5k. So obviously there is a market for people who like nice bikes and there isn't anything wrong with meeting the demands of that market.

If I rode the bike around San Francisco or any university campus I would be completely deranged to ride such an expensive bike every day, and I'd even modestly agree that in that case you'd probably want to spend your money elsewhere. But not everyone rides in that environment and if you are riding across the high desert in northern Nevada or spooky decommissioned logging roads in northwestern Montana a sweet ride like that has its place.

What do you get for that money? Well, on the average, you get a bike that is both lighter, stronger, and has better (sometimes much much much better) road feel than a less expensive bike. And to some people (well, more than some based on the fact that a lot of the high-end manufacturers have 3+ month backlogs) that is worth the ducats.

 

[The duke]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and obviously aren't shy about sharing it.

There are lots of high-end (non-electric) bike companies in the states selling as many bikes as they can make for well north of $5k. So obviously there is a market for people who like nice bikes and there isn't anything wrong with meeting the demands of that market.

If I rode the bike around San Francisco or any university campus I would be completely deranged to ride such an expensive bike every day, and I'd even modestly agree that in that case you'd probably want to spend your money elsewhere. But not everyone rides in that environment and if you are riding across the high desert in northern Nevada or spooky decommissioned logging roads in northwestern Montana a sweet ride like that has its place.

What do you get for that money? Well, on the average, you get a bike that is both lighter, stronger, and has better (sometimes much much much better) road feel than a less expensive bike. And to some people (well, more than some based on the fact that a lot of the high-end manufacturers have 3+ month backlogs) that is worth the ducats.

I completely agree with you. High performance and excellent components have its place. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying theyre ever going to come down in price or that they should. What I am saying is that I'm hoping in the future, bikes with entry level components and bafang rear hub motors with generic chinese aluminum frames will start to get cheaper and better, especially as battery technology gets so much better.

For racing, enduro or trusting my life along the Appalachian trail, I'd definitely go with a igher end Pedego or Haibike, but for the set thats hoping to buy something decent at Walmart or Dicks, there should he room for a quality, entry level product around thr $1,200 pricepoint that you can have fun all day with at the park or commute to a college campus with.

 

[harryS]

What I am saying is that I'm hoping in the future, bikes with entry level components and bafang rear hub motors with generic chinese aluminum frames will start to get cheaper and better, especially as battery technology gets so much better.

Those can be found for around $1000 right now.

Battery technology hasn't really gotten better unless you count the power density increase. I'd like to see them get safer, rather than more powerful. There's better assembly techniques vs wrapping cells in strapping tape, but the price of cells has come down as demand for quality lithium has gone up.

 

[DDBB]

Budget "acoustic" bikes at an LBS cost $600; mid-range $1000-1500, and the high quality ones are even more. Even if batteries and motors could be made less expensively, I think it would be very difficult for prices to drop significantly.

My budget acoustic bike cost $200, has real shifters, not twist grip. Shimano components although very low on their desireable scale etc. etc.. Adding a 250 watt electric motor, 500WH battery and display shouldn't cost 10x as much IMO

 

[Nova Haibike]

My budget acoustic bike cost $200, has real shifters, not twist grip. Shimano components although very low on their desireable scale

As someone who works on bikes daily, Shimano should be embarrassed to put their name on some of the stuff they make. I hesitate to even call them components, they are that bad. They are difficult to adjust because the tolerances are so low. They need more frequent tuning as well (again because of the lower tolerances); they don't stay in adjustment as do better quality parts.

Perhaps a motor and battery should not make a bike cost 10x more, but adding power does place more stress on a bike. If the frame and wheels need to be upgraded to handle the additional stress, it would be penny wise but pound foolish to hang a cheap drivetrain and/or brakes on the bike.

 

[DDBB]

2,000+mi. on my acoustic bike with low end shimano components. No failures or constant adjustments, original chain although it's about had it. I don't think most e-bikes strengthen the frame or wheels to handle the additional stress either, they just slap a motor on it and charge whatever they can get away with.

 

[LimboJim]

2,000+mi. on my acoustic bike with low end shimano components. No failures or constant adjustments, original chain although it's about had it. I don't think most e-bikes strengthen the frame or wheels to handle the additional stress either, they just slap a motor on it and charge whatever they can get away with.

It may well be true that many lower-end "manufacturers" use cheap, run-of-the-mill frames, but every major brand, purpose-built eMTB I've experienced - dozens so far - have had much beefier top/down/seat tubes and welds than any of the several models of push-MTBs I've owned.

 

[DDBB]

I've read articles of pedals falling off on "top end" e-mountain bikes and it wasn't due to lack of maintenance, it was cheap parts (not the pedal itself that failed). I'll try and find the article if anyone is interested. Paying top dollar doesn't ALWAYS mean high end components throughout but generally speaking it's true. My Haibike appears to have a very beefy frame and good welds. My e-bike was "cheap" relatively speaking but appears to be well made. I don't know enough about cranks and frames to know any different though.