What to expect with a direct sales bike?

[tylerrrrrr]

Hi guys -

I'm just starting out down the treacherous path of trying to pick the right e-bike and I've seen a lot of nice bikes in my price range but they are almost all direct sales which means I can't test them out, size them, and I'd have to put it together myself. I'm not an experience bike repair guy (I'm handy and I know youtube can show me how but I haven't done any of it yet...) nor am I really an avid cyclist (I can ride well but I've always just used whatever bike is around).

That said, I'm trying to decide if getting a direct sales bike is going to be a mistake, so I'm asking what to expect if I order a bike from the internet; what kind of problems have you run into? will a LBS help me out or tell me to get lost? Will I regret not getting a mainstream brand?





And also, what is your opinion of these brands:

M2S, Rad, Flex, Surface 604, Juiced

 

[Rakku]

I was in your shoes a few months ago.

A year or even 2 years ago I fell in love with the Radrover from Rad Power Bikes.

The only issue? America only and illegal in my country, at least back then.
So I threw the idea out of my head.

And out of the blue, at the beginning of this year they released a bike specially for the european market to abide with the laws (europe changed some laws beginning 2018 and made this possible).

Was a nobrainer for me, instantly bought the Radrhino and I do not regret it.

Sure, I had to adjust basicly everything, shipping seems to be rough on the bikes.
Brakes, drive train etc. I had to adjust really everything.
But afterwards? In my country a heavy headturner and looker, I often get into conservations cause of this bike

Atm I got some issues with the bike, Im not going to lie.
Weird clicking sounds from the front, loose spokes in the back and had a flat 40km ago, but thats all fixable and I already got 600km on this bike in total.
Its crazy fun.

Thats my opinion on the Radrhino from Rad Power Bikes and direct sales regarding them.

 

[rich c]

Customer support and shipping will be the big issue. Your ability to troubleshoot will be a close third. You read all the time about little companies with what must be 1 person answering calls and emails. Some complain about no responses for a week. Many of the little companies don't seem to carry many parts, so long delays waiting for parts to come from China are common. Are you familiar with a volt/ohm meter? Trouble shooting electrical issues is a lot different than adjusting brakes. Not uncommon for direct companies to have very short warranty policies as well.
I've purchased from a dealer and ordered direct. The first direct order box was destroyed in shipping. The trucker had me climb in the truck to inspect, he knew it was bad. I would not let them unload it from the truck. Other freight had fallen on the box. Second one had a part of the bike sticking out of the cardboard. Inspection seemed okay, but noted damage with the freight company. Bike was not damaged in shipping. PAS sensor was not working from day 1. Took videos and contacted the company. New sensor in about 3 days. After that it was up to me to fine tune fit.
First bike from the dealer was perfect, as it was a demo. Found out second bike I purchased from them was not road tested. Tested okay with a short ride at the dealer. Latter found it would not shift to the lowest gear. A piece of plastic used to secure the derailleur for shipping had not been removed. Slipped it out and all was fine.
So purchasing from the dealer is not absolutely fool proof, but I highly recommend it. Your phone call gets answered right away, and you get the service.

 

[tylerrrrrr]

Hey Rakku - thanks for your response.

The Rad Rover/Rhino is kind of what got me started down this path because it just looks so darn cool and a nice price as well. You mentioned a flat and some loose spokes... thats the kind of stuff that worries me about the entry level price. I'm also very curious about how the motor/battery are holding up - can you still just crank the throttle and hit max speed in a block like when you first got it? Can you do that through the entire battery charge or does it run out of real kick at 40% or something? Has the hub motor had any issues?

 

[tylerrrrrr]

Oh - and if anybody can comment on purchasing direct sales out of Canada (i.e. Surface 604) vs direct sales out of US (i.e. Rad) - or if that makes a difference inyour opinion

 

[Rakku]

Hey Rakku - thanks for your response.

The Rad Rover/Rhino is kind of what got me started down this path because it just looks so darn cool and a nice price as well. You mentioned a flat and some loose spokes... thats the kind of stuff that worries me about the entry level price. I'm also very curious about how the motor/battery are holding up - can you still just crank the throttle and hit max speed in a block like when you first got it? Can you do that through the entire battery charge or does it run out of real kick at 40% or something? Has the hub motor had any issues?

Battery actually got better after the first charge cycles, I have yet to drain that thing completly, did not manage to, yet.
No issues with battery and motor at all, not once.

Thing still runs smooth top speed/acceleration and battery are the same if not a little bit better then in the beginning.

Regarding the throttle, yes you get the full 750W even if you are on one bar.
If you get really close to empty battery you might drop down to 670- 700W, but like I said I have yet to drain the battery completly.
Longes ride I went on was around 50km and battery still had juice.
And Im a pretty heavy rider, I weigh around 110kg, keep that in mind.
(I like to go on PAS 1 [only gives 70W] to my destination and go all out and take the ride back when Im exhausted in PAS 3 - 4 or even fully on throttle, thats what I love about throttle + pedal assist)

The only issues like I said are things that are fixable.

This is the first time that the spokes got loose and I did not check the tightness when I got the bike.

Like I said, when you recieve the bike, you have to service it completly at least once and things do break in, like breaks etc and you have to readjust them.

I hope its just the same with the spokes (its only the rear spokes, I think the motor/torque and additional weight caused them getting loose and only after around 600km, which is not a big deal).

I´ll apply blue threadlocker to them to keep them getting loose from vibrations and if that doesnt help, I´ll just get new spokes and in the worst case a new rim.


Nothing that will break a leg.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

Court just put up a new video about Surface 604. He visited their office and warehouse. Worth looking at. He has also reviewed their bikes. The Hunter looks like it might be my 2nd ebike if such a thing were ever to happen. There is a forum on the EBR site that would be worth checking out.

I own a Juiced Bikes CrossCurrent S. It is a fantastic bike. Shipping was no problem -- packed really well. All I had to do was put on the front wheel, front fender, front light. I went over the various bolts and fasteners to see that nothing was loose but it was all fine. I've needed some minor customer service from them and always have had great service. IMO you can't beat the value for the dollar from Juiced. You have to be willing to wait -- they can't keep up with demand yet. If you ordered today, I'd expect it no sooner than August. You might get lucky, but that seems to be the usual wait. Totally worth it!

My LBS has been great about doing general maintenance on both mine and my wife's bikes (she has a Pedego) even though they didn't sell them to us. Don't know how they'd feel about doing work on the electric components yet. They sell some Raleigh ebikes so this may not be an issue for them.

I hope some of the other guys can answer your question about M2S etc. Good luck and enjoy the ride when you finally get one.

 

[MisterM]

Consider Evelo. Nice bikes with outstanding warranty.

Lots of these direct-sales guys are tiny shops with little/no inventory, dubious customer service and weak-to-lousy warranties. Surface604 seems to be one of the better/bigger ones, along with Juiced/Rad.

While I'm not a huge fan of LBS, if you have one that specializes in ebikes, I'd pay the premium to buy locally. It's bound to save headaches and avoid frustration. My problem is nobody local stocks what I'm looking for (48v/large capacity battery on a full suspension emtb), so am forced to buy online.

 

[Dynamo Dan]

I think everyone can appreciate your concerns. Online business will always struggle to compete with bricks and mortar businesses when it comes to confidence in the end product. I too am an ebike newbie and have decided to take the plunge by buying a Voltbike. Part of my concern about making this decision was eased by their Ambassador program.
Voltbikes do not retail through LBS and rely on a completely separate online business model. Basically, if you want to try before you buy, they will can put you in touch with a local Voltbike owner, an Ambassador. You can meet up, ask them whatever you want, and perhaps test ride the bike. I emailed Voltbike, 2 hours later I got an email reply from the local ambassador and 20 minutes later we met up and I was able to get my hands on the bike that I was looking to buy. The ambassador was not a salesman, just another ebike fan who wanted to share the joy of his ebike experience. A few days later I placed my order and I am now eagerly waiting for my bike to be delivered. I think Voltbike have a bigger presence in Canada than the USA but check out their website. You might find someone in your neighbourhood who can share their experience with you. Using existing customers to promote your product is a very smart way to get the product out there.
Incidentally, because I followed through with the purchase, the Ambassador will get a $100 cheque from Voltbike as a kick back for his time in helping to promote the product. . A great way to shorten the time of recouping your investment. I hope this helps

 

[bob armani]

I think everyone can appreciate your concerns. Online business will always struggle to compete with bricks and mortar businesses when it comes to confidence in the end product. I too am an ebike newbie and have decided to take the plunge by buying a Voltbike. Part of my concern about making this decision was eased by their Ambassador program.
Voltbikes do not retail through LBS and rely on a completely separate online business model. Basically, if you want to try before you buy, they will can put you in touch with a local Voltbike owner, an Ambassador. You can meet up, ask them whatever you want, and perhaps test ride the bike. I emailed Voltbike, 2 hours later I got an email reply from the local ambassador and 20 minutes later we met up and I was able to get my hands on the bike that I was looking to buy. The ambassador was not a salesman, just another ebike fan who wanted to share the joy of his ebike experience. A few days later I placed my order and I am now eagerly waiting for my bike to be delivered. I think Voltbike have a bigger presence in Canada than the USA but check out their website. You might find someone in your neighbourhood who can share their experience with you. Using existing customers to promote your product is a very smart way to get the product out there.
Incidentally, because I followed through with the purchase, the Ambassador will get a $100 cheque from Voltbike as a kick back for his time in helping to promote the product. . A great way to shorten the time of recouping your investment. I hope this helps

Dynamo Dan-Great idea! This is the 1st time I have heard of a company using a current owner to rep their E-bikes. I hope to see other E-bike mfgs do the same. To actually receive a kickback is even getting smarter at this idea. If I was asked by any company to demo my bike to a potential owner, I would be more than willing to do so just to share the experience. Are there any other E-bike companies doing this? Hope to see them checking into this forum for potential customers. I think it would not be a bad idea for Court Rye to launch a new campaign in support of this initiative. Hope to receive more feedback on this idea from other forum members here.

 

[Asher]

I own a Juiced Bikes CrossCurrent S. It is a fantastic bike. Shipping was no problem -- packed really well. All I had to do was put on the front wheel, front fender, front light. I went over the various bolts and fasteners to see that nothing was loose but it was all fine. I've needed some minor customer service from them and always have had great service. IMO you can't beat the value for the dollar from Juiced. You have to be willing to wait -- they can't keep up with demand yet. If you ordered today, I'd expect it no sooner than August. You might get lucky, but that seems to be the usual wait. Totally worth it!

Co-sign everything you said, just to note that Juiced is saying they're shipping 12.8ah battery bikes in mid-June (which I'd translate as early July). If you want bigger batteries, August is probably the earliest like you said.

Also have a Juiced CCS. No problems really aside from a mechanical issue that was a $20 fix that Juiced immediately repaid me for.

There's really only a problem if the electrical components are going haywire. The mechanical stuff on these direct sales bikes, as far as I know, is pretty standard, and any bike shop could fix it even if the bike maker left you high and dry.

And I believe Rad and Juiced use few to no proprietary electrical parts anyway, so if you could find some experienced ebike mechanics, they could probably fix up even the electrical components. Not saying it would ever get to that point per se, just speculating about a worst case scenario - I believe both companies will fix any issues covered by the warranty.

Surface 604 sells through dealers too.

Surface, Rad, Juiced all seem like decent choices reliability wise. SmartMotion Pacer also looks pretty nice. Like Bruce, I think the Juiced CCS is the best value by far though.

 

[WalkinTarget]

I went to my LBS last week, and it was the biggest waste of time for me personally. They had one ebike in the entire store, nobody knew ANYTHING about it (motor size ? *blank stare* battery size ? *blank stare*) and I honestly didn't really feel like they were interested in selling ebikes. My gut feeling was backed up by 2 members of my riding group that also stopped going to that store (one being our well respected member 'JR' here in the forums).

So I drove to the next county over, maybe a 45 minute drive yesterday - and while the dealer didn't have the specific models I was interested in (Magnum Peak 29, Easy Motion Evo Pro 27.5) he took about an hour of his time to find out what I was ultimately after out of an ebike. I told him I would have already bought a Juiced RCS had it been in stock, but after our discussion, I decided to start looking for a Plus tire bike instead. I will give Juiced a few more weeks, but I have a deadline set, and if they can't produce a bike to pre-order by mid-June, I am taking my money elsewhere.

My point is - it's all well and good to recommend an LBS just to pay a visit and see what they offer, but be prepared to find that many hard core riders that work in those shops have no interest at all in marketing an ebike. They are passing on sales of $3,000 ebikes to sell a regular bike for $750. That just boggles my mind. I have no interest in giving them any business, and to be honest, I will be taking my ebike to that dealer that is further away simply because he got into the business to market ebikes first and foremost, and sells regular bikes on the side. I very much prefer to give someone my business when I know that they 'get it' and know what he is doing when it comes to assembling an ebike.

 

[Fishwater]

I went to my LBS last week, and it was the biggest waste of time for me personally. They had one ebike in the entire store, nobody knew ANYTHING about it (motor size ? *blank stare* battery size ? *blank stare*) and I honestly didn't really feel like they were interested in selling ebikes. My gut feeling was backed up by 2 members of my riding group that also stopped going to that store (one being our well respected member 'JR' here in the forums).

So I drove to the next county over, maybe a 45 minute drive yesterday - and while the dealer didn't have the specific models I was interested in (Magnum Peak 29, Easy Motion Evo Pro 27.5) he took about an hour of his time to find out what I was ultimately after out of an ebike. I told him I would have already bought a Juiced RCS had it been in stock, but after our discussion, I decided to start looking for a Plus tire bike instead. I will give Juiced a few more weeks, but I have a deadline set, and if they can't produce a bike to pre-order by mid-June, I am taking my money elsewhere.

My point is - it's all well and good to recommend an LBS just to pay a visit and see what they offer, but be prepared to find that many hard core riders that work in those shops have no interest at all in marketing an ebike. They are passing on sales of $3,000 ebikes to sell a regular bike for $750. That just boggles my mind. I have no interest in giving them any business, and to be honest, I will be taking my ebike to that dealer that is further away simply because he got into the business to market ebikes first and foremost, and sells regular bikes on the side. I very much prefer to give someone my business when I know that they 'get it' and know what he is doing when it comes to assembling an ebike.

I’ve pondered this since I first started researching which e-bike to buy. Most online “retailers” are sold out of E-Bikes with estimated shipping at least a month away yet locally there’s no interest at most bike shops to sell an Ebike. Plus there’s a genuine hostility in online mtb forums as well as some local shops. These guys are dying on the vine, lack of sales & floor traffic yet they maintain their smug attitude towards E-Bikes, completely mind boggling IMO. I was fortunate in finding a semi local shop about an hour away that only sells E-Bikes, no smug attitude, in fact knowledgeable & welcoming to new customers. It’s no wonder he sold out of two different bikes that I was interested in when I was back 5 days later to make my purchase.

During my purchase he received a call from Specialized to become a dealer. He stated in the past they never wanted to set him up unless he sold normal bikes too, it seems they are finally realizing that the LBS isn’t interested in promoting this side of the sport so as a manufacturer they are moving towards finding retail outlets willing to promote their brand.

 

[jazz]

With direct buy you will get a less expensive ebike than say a Haibike, Trek etc. That being said, the components will generally not be as good, usually average at best, and you can expect spotty customer service because you are most likely dealing with someone in another state. If you are handy with bikes and a wrench you should be fine baring any serious issues like motor, controller or battery.

 

[christob]

I have to disagree completely with jazz, based on my experience of buying direct and from another state...

I bought from Vintage Electric Bikes out in California (I live just outside D.C.) after spending much time on their website, watching reviews, and sending them probably 2 - 3 dozen different email inquiries (as a total newbie) over a month; all of them patiently and thoroughly answered. I've great service from them (though admittedly, sometimes there's a 24-hour lag on email replies.) The bike is solid and sturdy, fast and beautiful.

I've had 2 "non-trivial" issues develop with the bike -- a nagging, persistent chirping squeak developed from the rear wheel, which no amount of investigation or trial-and-error troubleshooting at my LBS would resolve (including with V.E.B. Support on conference call with LBS guys, walking them through some options V.E.B. wanted checked out.) V.E.B. simply sent along whole new rear wheel (with new hub motor) to me. After that was installed, the assist sort of faded away to nothing during one day, and eventually that evening, I couldn't even power on the bike. V.E.B. then sent me a new controller and wiring harness (it is all contained in their down-tube battery mount bracket.) That was installed at my LBS and the bike is back in business.

All this, and I didn't pay full retail for the bike, taking advantage of a 25%-discounted bike due to a paint scuff and a tiny fender dent.

Yes, these 2 issues have been baffling and frustrating; annoyingly unexpected and disruptive within the first 1,000 miles on the bike -- but I cannot complain about V.E.B. Support and their handling of the resolutions to these issues.

 

[Dynamo Dan]

I think there is a tendency to assume that if something goes wrong with a direct sale bike, then it is because it was a direct sale bike. The truth is that will always be issues with some new bikes and often there is no correlation between the fault and the way it was sold. I am also suspicious of claims that quality of direct sales bike are inferior. The frames and all the components are made in the same factories by the same Chinese workforce as any LBS bike.
If you are buying direct will stand to save $100s possibly $1000s on a new bike. Given that discount, you have to weight how important the LBS service is to you. If you want face to face service go with LBS, otherwise save your money.

 

[jazz]

I have to disagree completely with jazz, based on my experience of buying direct and from another state...

I bought from Vintage Electric Bikes out in California (I live just outside D.C.) after spending much time on their website, watching reviews, and sending them probably 2 - 3 dozen different email inquiries (as a total newbie) over a month; all of them patiently and thoroughly answered. I've great service from them (though admittedly, sometimes there's a 24-hour lag on email replies.) The bike is solid and sturdy, fast and beautiful.

I've had 2 "non-trivial" issues develop with the bike -- a nagging, persistent chirping squeak developed from the rear wheel, which no amount of investigation or trial-and-error troubleshooting at my LBS would resolve (including with V.E.B. Support on conference call with LBS guys, walking them through some options V.E.B. wanted checked out.) V.E.B. simply sent along whole new rear wheel (with new hub motor) to me. After that was installed, the assist sort of faded away to nothing during one day, and eventually that evening, I couldn't even power on the bike. V.E.B. then sent me a new controller and wiring harness (it is all contained in their down-tube battery mount bracket.) That was installed at my LBS and the bike is back in business.

All this, and I didn't pay full retail for the bike, taking advantage of a 25%-discounted bike due to a paint scuff and a tiny fender dent.

Yes, these 2 issues have been baffling and frustrating; annoyingly unexpected and disruptive within the first 1,000 miles on the bike -- but I cannot complain about V.E.B. Support and their handling of the resolutions to these issues.

You did receive good support but I wouldn't call replacing an entire wheel with motor, controller and wiring non-trivial. Those are all pretty essential components to an ebike. Regardless, VEB is known for their great customer support. When I said "Spotty customer service" with direct buy that was based on this forum and other forums which I have been a part of for years and my own experience with over 10 different ebikes, most direct buy. You have companies such as VEB that provide solid support as well as others Biktrix and RadPower. However, there are several other popular direct buy companies which do indeed fall into the "spotty" category.

 

[Nova Haibike]

I am also suspicious of claims that quality of direct sales bike are inferior. The frames and all the components are made in the same factories by the same Chinese workforce as any LBS bike.

As far as frames go, the difference lies in design and engineering. Trek, Specialized, Giant, etc. they have their own engineers. They sponsor teams and riders, who torture test products out in the real world. They also have much more stringent quality control at the factories as well. The smaller direct sales companies, they might choose some design elements, but mostly rely on the factory's own expertise to provide them with a quality product.

Another issue is how well the bike is preassembled. I've seen a few that were quite good, but overall, most bikes need a lot of tweaking here and there. Of course you can always pay a professional to put together any bike.

 

[harryS]

The owner at my nearest LBS has an attitude even with my regular bike. I've asked my neighbor who will ride 100 miles on road bike weekends, and he agrees that owner only likes people who come in wearing bike gear. The kids who work there are nice though, but they don't know what or where anything is, even if I bring in the part I need. Fun to look at the $3000 bikes too.

The trouble with LBS is that they rarely have the sales to support experienced techs. Tire changers and tuners are high school kids. Not that ebikes are difficult. If you replace the components, it's simple, but to be able to do it safely w/o burning down the shop, your skills will get you more pay in the tech industry. So part of it is lack of knowledge. Part of it is not wanting to have liability. Changing times for bike shops.

I've purchased four bikes over the internet, none of them electric, since I got into the ebike hobby. The first one had a crushed fork, but it was steel and I spread it back open. Always had to screw in the pedals, attach the stem/bars, and adjust the brakes. Pump up tires. The last bike, not expensive at all, was well packed with all kinds of padding, but I had to mount the front calipers which might faze someone who had never done it before. In the end though, bikes are simple enough that one can learn it all via you tube.

If you commute to work and your job needs you there on time every day, maybe you want an ebike that has a local shop to keep it running. Paying more for for the perception of reliability makes sense. If you ride for recreation, then you might do fine with direct sales and some possible down time.

 

[Nova Haibike]

The owner at my nearest LBS has an attitude even with my regular bike.

This describes many an LBS; run buy an "enthusiast," A.K.A. bike snob.

The trouble with LBS is that they rarely have the sales to support experienced techs. Tire changers and tuners are high school kids.

With a small operation, there is little to no opportunity for advancement either, so hardly anyone stays long enough to become truly experienced.