Watt Wagons Critical Product Availability Status

I last spoke with them in mid-June regarding the programming harnesses and they said they expected them late-July to August. I'm probably going to reach out to them to see what's up later this evening or tomorrow morning. Just found out I have 27 miles of bike path connecting my neighborhood to the lakes and mountain paths, and only a mile or two is unpaved. Would be nice to be able to dial in my settings and enjoy few a few weeks before things get cold & wet here
 
Here's a two-bit Renaissance man's 2-cents.

PRC has been cornering world supply of 'sponge' and selling to Russia at fixed price. Russia, in return supplies PRC with metal/ tubes, sheets, bars, etc. at favorable contracts.
Russian refined titanium owns (90% of world market) - VSMPO-AVISMA Corporation - so PRC finished goods (90% of world market for finished 'value added' goods) ti production has a dismal future.
We're still seeing momentum from accumulated PRC stockpiles, but the party's over.
It's a critical metal. The West, scrambling to decouple from Russia controlling anything (except perhaps Cabbage), is investing many billions to make our own. We already process ore to sponge, it's producing titanium sponge to ingots and in turn to billets or slabs, tubes, disks, and rings, forgings.
When our capacity - at whatever price, we don't care - is reached, we'll sanction Russian ti ... and that means PRC goods made from it.
The only place left with the 'extreme' energy required to process the sponge into workable - profitable - products is Kazakhstan. They're committed to uranium production - much more money and that HEAVY smelting infrastructure's already in place.
Infrastructure investment (and financing) involved dictates Western 'titanium materials' cost will rise (min) 400%.
Finished goods will be 'market' prices.
The pricing effect will induce (much less) production, focused on aerospace and medicine, military (deep pockets) grade.
The investment required of any enterprise building bicycle frames out of western ti tubing will make such products very rare indeed.
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It's safe to say, I have the last titanium Cross Tour or Ultimate Commuter made. You'll note they're no longer on the site.
This is why I posted to all concerned that 'if you want a WW Titanium CT or UC, you better buy the frame retail from PRC - while you can - ship it to Pushkar and have him create your bike'.
These frames 'wholesale' are about the same price 'retail', but the producers are ruining our companies by cancelling; delaying shipment; false information and promises of production; mid-contract, arbitrary price-hikes (sticking WW with the bill they DON'T pass down to customers).
I wouldn't expect WW to obtain the frame, but I'd trust they'll build it right - when they have it.
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Same is true for ti parts. Good time to stock up.
I like this Tris titanium bottle cage.
American made - out of 'tubing', not '5mm wire' - have better welds and a slightly more elegant backing plate - at 400% markup/ including the $20 ti bolts (free with this).

20221127_103724[1].jpg

Using wire means it's about (65grms), 2 x the WolfTooth Morse, or Silca Sicuro weight.
Also - if you get into bikepacking/ camping/ overnights - a titanium mini-stove and cookware set up for 2, with adapters and fuel cannister weighs about 2lbs and takes up <0.5#ft.
A ti bike must have !!! lol. Perfect for heating up my Must Have Coffee, my Parmesan/ Blue Cheese Crusted Chicken Wings, or carb loading pre-made noodle dishes for dinner. You'll come home weighing more than when you started !!!
Like next January, lol.
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Totally cool community. Multinational too.
To every stripe (even that cranky Aussie. Hey, if everything around me was trying to eat me, I'd be cranky too !!!) ...
You people are the greatest.

Happy Holidays to all !!!

Fn'F
 
I put a deposit on the full boat Optibike R22 because they will build me the first R22 with a torque sensor and the 3.3Kw battery. I am wearing my Luna Apollo out and want a Rohloff and stiffer frame anyway. Plus I will move to BI Hawaii in a couple of years.
 
I put a deposit on the full boat Optibike R22 because they will build me the first R22 with a torque sensor and the 3.3Kw battery. I am wearing my Luna Apollo out and want a Rohloff and stiffer frame anyway. Plus I will move to BI Hawaii in a couple of years.
I could never overlook is the utter lack of utility (Hey Jack, where's the rack?), but that's a curse all FS bikes live with.
But, 92lbs (dry) weight. 101lbs according to their site?
"The carbon fiber swingarm and frame ... weighs 93 lbs (42 kg) in total" is commonly quoted from company literature.
Sounds tricky. We do know the Batteries weigh another 35lbs - if they're honest (rather odd all the numbers come up rounded though) - but how much do the wheels, tires, saddle seat; bars; fork; etcetera weigh?
They also say "The Fastest, Best Handling, Off-road E-Bike." Meaning 'NOT street legal'.
It's pretty cool they sell a 36v 750watts nominal, but (me having the world's worst luck) I still see arguing with a cop that stopped me for a "no license plate" violation in my cloudy crystal ball. He's like "if it looks like a motorcycle...", while I'm explaining statutory law and how "I'll walk it home" as the tow-truck driver takes my machine. Looking deeper, the clouds lift and I see myself standing before a 'god' in a Black Dress in my future - and boy do I look pissed. But then, I have the same bad dreams about my 'Gumbo Bodacious'.
I don't know who's more powerful, but my WW in 1000 / 1600watts is a bit much. I don't even use Sports mode and +200nm is unreal.
Wattwagons ArchonX1.jpg

Speaking of Gumbo (and her big feet), the R22's '38mm rims' seem a bit narrow? (45mm external size). Velocity does make an 80mm rim.
I'd heard fat tires are banned w/ Rohloff - until I read Rohloff w/ 100mm rims Fat bike - segway ...
Speaking of Rohloff and banned, they say the "Speedhub 500/14" has a "Maximum input torque rating of 130 Nm".
So, if the Optibike R22's motor's rated at "Continuous with 190Nm Torque" output, that means you're in violation of the warranty from the git-go - you brave soul you!
I truly admire bravery and that's what I'd like to know. How does the IGH hold up?
My verdict from a glance is 'Made In USA' gets full honors. We're decoupling from the PRC and I agree.
I can also see where prices are going when this recession settles out. Tough times to pull this off. More points added.
This must be a long term dream materializing and these guys have beaucoup talent. More points.
A billet motor is neato, but no other way exists - lol.
It fits a certain market well, but needs to address weight.
A 21700 Sports Battery pack - good for 20miles - that weighs 3 - 4lbs and (ahem) a titanium frame'd drop a chunk of 'Rotundo de Bloat's' tail.
That downhill fork's a real clunker, but the kind needed, perhaps. It looks like my mid 80's Maico 250's. That bike was insane. All it took was the strength to point and hold a line, it went over anything. It'd climb boulders you never meant to, but what do ya do? Stop and die?
No fun, stopped at the top and looking down, knowing that's where you go next. A real (often terrifyingly so) 'down-hill bike'.
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A 20k USD machine needs a ti truss springer fork. Talk to Mr Jones. Collaborate and cooperate. Dump all the (HEAVY) PRC made Hydraulic Forks and go back to American designed mechanical roots and use the proper materials - unless you're into aforementioned 'boulder climbing' and actually need your head examined and multi-million dollar insurance policy a 'crash and banger' downhill fork.
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Thank you for the tip. I'll be watching these machines, rooting for success.
Please start a thread on the R22. I'm sure there're owners out there.
I'd give my rapt attention for sure. I love the pursuit of excellence!

Fn'F
 
I put a deposit on the full boat Optibike R22 because they will build me the first R22 with a torque sensor and the 3.3Kw battery. I am wearing my Luna Apollo out and want a Rohloff and stiffer frame anyway. Plus I will move to BI Hawaii in a couple of years.
Do you have more details on the Torque sensor based pedal assist for the R22?

I had asked them two years ago if they were going to do it before buying my Boxxbike, and they said it was coming, but it never materialized. So I went ahead with the Boxxbike, and added a Kindernay and a torque sensor pedal assist myself :)

So I am curious if they finally did good on that promise.
That frame is gorgeous, but the power is a bit limited for my taste and the price really high (especially since Boxxbike dropped theirs).

It will be great if you can keep us posted in a dedicated thread!
 
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My Optibike R22 3.3kW order with a torque sensor and throttle is in for starting the build. Jim said they have 3 ordered but I am next. I will start a new thread when I get it. Excited and poor! I have been bit by early adoption before but "yolo" no wife.
 
Thank you for the update.
Have they given you any technical details on the Implementation of the pedal assist?
 
Thank you for the update.
Have they given you any technical details on the Implementation of the pedal assist?
Like which sensor? I did not ask but they were building a hub implementation already and they have been testing it for months he said. My assumption is it is the spindle of a new motor as now.
 
Like which sensor? I did not ask but they were building a hub implementation already and they have been testing it for months he said. My assumption is it is the spindle of a new motor as now.
Yes which type of sensor or sensor combination.
Mostly does it include Torque sensing....
 
Nope-the new Helios will have an aluminum frame.
I have a couple of photos of the raw frame, in aluminum, but I won't post them without Pushkar's okay.
In my experience that's a real improvement - since pretty much everything I've used made of CF failed. Exception being Toray graphite and E-Glass composite fishing rods matrix. For a light weight/ sensitivity it uses graphite. For durability/ toughness, composite glass which result's in a rod that performs at 2 x it's rated weight in sensitivity. Break testing at Rainshadow.
That machine has some nice lines. Just won't meet my basic needs except sightseeing.
Have they solved the tensioner set up yet? Seems to be Gates problem with geometry changing on every bump - last I read up on.

Fn'F
 
52v with that much tourqe the front wheel will rise. You got a range of less than 20 miles.
I'm posting here because I like Wattwagon.
LL Bean
Baby buy it.
That's not a WW and you are misinformed.
In mixed modes, running as fast as I like, yes the wheel comes up from Eco 1 - SP (all), but my Watt Wagon consistently pulls slightly over 40miles on a full charge w/ 52v 16aH battery without really trying. The X1's efficiency increase is real, providing what works out to an additional 30% efficiency (as manifest in range) - exactly as claimed.
A difference between the 48v (14S5P) and a 52v (15S5P) is the 52v has 5 additional Cells of storage capacity.

FnF
 
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