Watt Wagons Critical Product Availability Status

[Acme]

WTF has become of this forum. It used to be people that cared about their bikes and making them better. Pushkar is putting out bikes as fast as he can given the parts shortages. When you order a bike Pushkar expends time and money trying to get all the parts needed, employees to be ready to assemble them, rent on shop space etc. it’s not like he was just a middle man holding your check.

 

[Zachdds]

WTF has become of this forum. It used to be people that cared about their bikes and making them better. Pushkar is putting out bikes as fast as he can given the parts shortages. When you order a bike Pushkar expends time and money trying to get all the parts needed, employees to be ready to assemble them, rent on shop space etc. it’s not like he was just a middle man holding your check.

Actually, for the hydra black, he is exactly just a middleman holding your checks.

My biggest problem with watts wagon is the way they are going about it. Let me give you an example from this past week.
On Friday Pushkar came onto the founder's forum and volunteered that he would be sending the next round of refunds on Monday. The comment got multiple likes and thumbs ups. Monday comes. No money, no explanation. Tuesday comes and goes. Wednesday the same.

Watts wagons problems is not at all about the bikes. It is the constant promises and timelines that are broken, and he does not even think enough of the customer to give them a heads up. There is no excuse for promising someone a grand in 3 days and not at least explaining the hold up if you are unable to deliver on that promise. This is the reoccurring problem. People make choices with their money based on the information that they are given. Yes, things pop up and change, but customers need to be kept in the loop on that so that they can determine if those changes are acceptable to them. Use Rome here as an example. Buys a bike based on the timeline given to him. Timeline changes and he is no longer interested in waiting. That is fair. Maybe he needed the bike by Christmas who knows, but him asking for a refund should not be ignored. Pushkar owes it to him to reach out and set up a refund schedule that they both can live with.

 

[onlineaddy]

WTF has become of this forum. It used to be people that cared about their bikes and making them better. Pushkar is putting out bikes as fast as he can given the parts shortages. When you order a bike Pushkar expends time and money trying to get all the parts needed, employees to be ready to assemble them, rent on shop space etc. it’s not like he was just a middle man holding your check.

What this forum has become is the direct consequence and reflection of what Watt Wagons has become.

 

[Acme]

What this forum has become is the direct consequence and reflection of what Watt Wagons has become.

I fundamentally disagree. This forum is not Watt Wagons. It was a place for like minded people to discuss bike. Now it has been consumed by negative energy causing It’s absolute failure for its intended purpose. I used to check it daily but now I dread pulling it up. Perhaps it is Pushkar’s fault for creating promises he could not keep. Often starting a business can be a learning experience A common failure can be neglecting to draw clear boundaries. People that would never dream of expecting something from an established business where they have to speak with person that has no more responsibility than to take a message. Clearly defined rules for refund percentages to be kept by business for monies expended if inability to perform in a timely manor is due to circumstances beyond their control.
Here you have Pushkar answering the phone long after business hours with an attitude that he will honestly do anything with in his power to put your bike together. He tries very hard, but the current world supply chain issues challenge him at every possible turn. He is then confronted by customers that wish to dictate their own terms which are in turn disappointed.
In short a recipe for disappointments

 

[onlineaddy]

Our own terms is that we want our money back for failure to deliver a product we paid for many, many months ago (2020 Apr 9).

You weren't the only one excited about WW and checking the forums multiple times daily for news. Now I come to read of promises repeatedly made and subsequently broken by Pushkar. I repeat: this forum is a reflection of the current state of WW. This experience has actually soured the whole EBR forums for me, to be honest.

 

[Zachdds]

I fundamentally disagree. This forum is not Watt Wagons. It was a place for like minded people to discuss bike. Now it has been consumed by negative energy causing It’s absolute failure for its intended purpose. I used to check it daily but now I dread pulling it up. Perhaps it is Pushkar’s fault for creating promises he could not keep. Often starting a business can be a learning experience A common failure can be neglecting to draw clear boundaries. People that would never dream of expecting something from an established business where they have to speak with person that has no more responsibility than to take a message. Clearly defined rules for refund percentages to be kept by business for monies expended if inability to perform in a timely manor is due to circumstances beyond their control.
Here you have Pushkar answering the phone long after business hours with an attitude that he will honestly do anything with in his power to put your bike together. He tries very hard, but the current world supply chain issues challenge him at every possible turn. He is then confronted by customers that wish to dictate their own terms which are in turn disappointed.
In short a recipe for disappointments

I look at the top of the page and this is listed as the Watts Wagon sub forum under a critical product availability header. If this is not the place for people to 1. discuss the problems they are having with getting their bike or money and 2. inform other potential customers of problems that they might encounter if they do business with this company, then please let me know where you think would be a good place for that.

We are all glad that you got your bike. They seem to be nice bikes, but this is a place to discuss ww both good and bad. There is plenty of ww worshipping.

 

[Acme]

All businesses fail to deliver at some point when they can’t get product. Your line of all I want is my money back for a product I paid for is great until you actually think about the fact that he has put a lot of time and energy into trying to get your product. Do you think that he should be paid for that or do you simply think, he failed to deliver he’s going to give me back everything. A large business would have a set of protocols and terms for instances such as this and yes they would be keeping 20 to 30% of your money and you wouldn’t even think anything of it because it would be written down on the contract you signed. but since it’s Pushkar you think he’s a little guy you’re just gonna push them around threaten his business online and expect him to give me back everything and what’s worse is you don’t want to wait. You are expecting him to shoulder the burden of the unstable economy that we find ourselves in.
Go ahead take him to court see what the judge will say. He has a very good reason for not supplying your product. The parts are not available, the fact that you no longer wish to wait does not mean he broke the contract, it was actually you who broke the contract. Unfortunately here there is no professional written contract but courts will often imply typical contractual terms in these situations and they do not all fall to one side or the other. Yes it’s true he messed deadlines. Unless you have a piece of paper that says product shall be delivered by a certain date or you were entitled to a full refund you’re not legally entitled to say I don’t wanna wait any longer, give me all my money.
Pushkar is bending over backwards to take care of you guys and you still sit there and badmouth him. I just wonder where your heads are at.

 

[Zachdds]

Acme you truly have no idea what you are talking about.

All you have to do is read the title on this board.

Does that feel like you are investing in a bike that you are responsible for r&d costs?

Any interest in committing to pre-launch price for a limited run hard tail superbike ? Round One Pricing added- through April 11th.​

That was for an aluminum Hardtail that I believe was going to be ready that fall. It is my belief that there is not a Hardtail really in the works.

 

[Acme]

I’m a lawyer, I own a small business and I have been involved in import export. is it possible I might know little more than you? I apologize if I’m lumping you and with some of the other commentaries here as you all seem to have similar concerns. Long story short you are intentionally or unintentionally damaging Pushkar‘s business with your tactics and I don’t think that’s appropriate or correct. if you think this is going to get your money faster I suggest you think longer and harder on it.

 

[greeno]

Acme you are wrong wrong wrong brother. All businesses fail to deliver at some point. Again wrong.
Bad businesses or insolvent ones fail but not successfully ran companies.
Nobody's perfect I get that but sticking your head in the sand doesn't fix it. You also said that this forum is not WW's, ah yeah it is. The website isn't WW but this category is difinetly his baby. Roshan doesn't seem to have any trouble responding to his Biktrix forum if an issue comes up. Not a fan of the bikes just of the owner as he seems to be a stand up guy when confronted with the good or bad.

I don't know if there is a contract or terms of purchase these bikes or not but you don't string people along because you can't deliver or it better suits your needs.

If WW was my business, it's not I'm just sayin, If I failed to deliver on my promise or contractural obligation I would be out in front of any backlash and contact those people directly to come to an acceptable agreement for both parties to limit the negative vibes.
Running a business is a gamble that you make to hopefully be a positive influence for a product or service. If the cards don't go in your favor then you pay the piper.
I don't know how many bikes WW has in the hopper to deliver. 10, 100, or 1000 it doesn't matter. A person is only as good as their work and unfortunately his reputation has taken a hit because of it.

I know we are only hearing about the "problem" orders but if I was the owner I would of came on this site and personally addressed ALL complaints about MY business as it's a direct reflection on ME the owner. But this guy is MIA as far as I'm concerned. He doesn't have to get into the minute details of the hold-up but have a response and not suck as Jim Rome says.
I have been approached by several other bikers asking about my bike or motor/controller and if I would recommend them and I say sadly no. A year ago hell yes but WW actions, or not, would be a reflection on me now and I wouldn't want to be thought of as someone who supported a company that didn't honor their commitments.

You say Mr. P. is trying hard and answering the phones after hours that is not what running a business is about. I think there are a few other items that might matter a bit more.

As far as giving people their $ back in a timely manner what company keeps 20-30% if THEY don't honor THEIR commitment? Give me a break. People aren't getting their $ back because it's not available that's pretty easy to figure. Deeper and deeper the hole gets until it caves in and then.....

 

[scrambler]

I think the horse (the subject) is dead by now, but you guys can keep beating down on it if it really makes you feel better or important, or righteous....

 

[JRA]

Darn I just made my evening batch too...

I do finally understand what the Innotrace type controller could do for my needs now though after listening to the Bolton video. I am not interested in jacking up the watts but the whole idea of something that takes way more readings is of interest to me.

I'll limp along on what I can get out of it UART style and maybe someday one like it will find its way into my M620. In the meantime ride em' if you got em' gents....

 

[WaxedWookie]

@Acme, you're either being willfully dishonest or incredibly stupid at this point. I and several other people have gone to great lengths to highlight that the main issue here is an easily addressed communication gap. You act as though that isn't the case, and that it's unreasonable for us to get jittery when someone that promised us bikes 4+ months ago stops responding to tickets for months at a time, shows signs of potential solvency issues with refund difficulties, and that the rare updates we do see are contradictory, and that every deadline set is missed. Unlike logistical issues, this (with the arguable solvency exception) is all entirely within wattwagons' control.

Do you not think that this lack of information about availability is relevant to an availability thread, and that our chatter to share updates and our experience is a direct consequence of an absence of information from Pushkar that would simmer down as soon as more substantive updates were provided?

Your continued simping is cute, but inexplicable to most of us.

The expectation that we wait in silence for bikes that we've paid for in full months (in some cases this is approaching years) ago with no idea of what the delay ("logistics") or current delivery timeline is completely unreasonable.

 

[JRA]

Simping, ha! Good one. I havent' heard that one in years. Glad my popcorn didn't go to waste. Can't wait to start using it again. Probably not here though as I have most of the simps on ignore. Oh wait, I did get to use it!

 

[onlineaddy]

A large business would have a set of protocols and terms for instances such as this and yes they would be keeping 20 to 30% of your money and you wouldn’t even think anything of it

I would love to run a business where I get to keep 20-30% of my customers' money without needing to deliver any product. Where do I sign up?

 

[SpinEcho]

All businesses fail to deliver at some point when they can’t get product.

Most online businesses are bound by the 30 day rule.

If, after taking the customer’s order, you learn that you cannot ship within the time you stated or within 30 days, you must seek the customer’s consent to the delayed shipment. If you cannot obtain the customer’s consent to the delay -- either because it is not a situation in which you are permitted to treat the customer’s silence as consent and the customer has not expressly consented to the delay, or because the customer has expressly refused to consent -- you must, without being asked, promptly refund all the money the customer paid you for the unshipped merchandise.

 

[greeno]

Haha another poster to ignore.

 

[Zachdds]

That 30 day rule is interesting. Seems like my reading of it is that as soon. As bike can not be delivered within 30 days of given timeframe the customer must consent or be refunded within 7 days or face a fine of up to 43k per offense.

All businesses fail to deliver at some point when they can’t get product. Your line of all I want is my money back for a product I paid for is great until you actually think about the fact that he has put a lot of time and energy into trying to get your product. Do you think that he should be paid for that or do you simply think, he failed to deliver he’s going to give me back everything. A large business would have a set of protocols and terms for instances such as this and yes they would be keeping 20 to 30% of your money and you wouldn’t even think anything of it because it would be written down on the contract you signed. but since it’s Pushkar you think he’s a little guy you’re just gonna push them around threaten his business online and expect him to give me back everything and what’s worse is you don’t want to wait. You are expecting him to shoulder the burden of the unstable economy that we find ourselves in.
Go ahead take him to court see what the judge will say. He has a very good reason for not supplying your product. The parts are not available, the fact that you no longer wish to wait does not mean he broke the contract, it was actually you who broke the contract. Unfortunately here there is no professional written contract but courts will often imply typical contractual terms in these situations and they do not all fall to one side or the other. Yes it’s true he messed deadlines. Unless you have a piece of paper that says product shall be delivered by a certain date or you were entitled to a full refund you’re not legally entitled to say I don’t wanna wait any longer, give me all my money.
Pushkar is bending over backwards to take care of you guys and you still sit there and badmouth him. I just wonder where your heads are at.

Acme you are the attorney, maybe I read the 30 days thing wrong, but I believe everything you posted is just wrong.

 

[Acme]

The 30 day rule depends on the definition of product. Here there are multiple products as well as services being part of the agreement. If someone orders a front shock and can’t get it the 30 day rule wold apply. I hope this helps.

 

[Leon S. Kennedy]

I'm not sure why Wattwagons doesn't stop taking orders when there are more orders than they can fulfill with existing inventory like many other reputable vendors do. Once existing inventory is exhausted, they mark the product as "sold-out" and let you leave your email with them to get notified when more product is in stock. You might loose a few sales, but its much better than the negative feedback you get by not fulfilling orders. Wattwagons would still likely sell everything they make.

Another option is to set up and track a written waiting list with a very small deposit and let people know what their approximate place number will be in the waiting list before they send their deposit. Then send weekly automatic emails to everyone with their place number in the waiting list so they can see how their position in the list is progressing. Not zero effort like the "sold-out" option, but it would not be difficult to set up.