Tube vs. Tubeless on ebikes

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Mr. Coffee/Guys
Thank you for that information, never heard of that before,
I'll now have some paper money with when riding,
where to get a Canadian and Australian 5 dollar bills and 5 Euro bills?
I'll also look into the Park boot.
Tia,

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Mr. Coffee/Guys
Thank you for that information, never heard of that before,
I'll now have some paper money with when riding,
where to get a Canadian and Australian 5 dollar bills and 5 Euro bills?
I'll also look into the Park boot.
Tia,

TB-2 Emergency Tire Boots

This temporary ride saver can patch most small-to-medium sized tears and cuts that typically occur on bicycle tire casings.

www.parktool.com

 

[Ben J]

So, one more negative to the tubeless noted - regular maintenance required. Why nobody mentioned this before?

I think the summary is that both tube and tubeless tires might require maintenance: Tubeless tires will definitely require maintenance every 6 months or so in your garage. Tubes will randomly require maintenance on the side of the trail.

For some people, the tradeoff is easy, because they ride with low pressure in situations where they get a lot of flats (mountain bikers). Doing more maintenance at home to avoid maintenance on the trail makes a lot of sense.

For some people, it is not as clear. I am riding Schwalbe Johnny Watts, which have a very thick center tread, and I'm riding at pretty high pressure (I'm on full suspension anyway so I accept that the tire is a little more harsh). So I use tubes and carry a spare.

 

[teskow]

I hav used duct tape as a boot a few times. More layers for a bigger hole.

 

[DaveMatthews]

Mr. Coffee/Guys
Thank you for that information, never heard of that before,
I'll now have some paper money with when riding,
where to get a Canadian and Australian 5 dollar bills and 5 Euro bills?
I'll also look into the Park boot.
Tia,

I know I can get US bills from my Canadian bank. Perhaps the reverse is true for you.

 

[Catalyzt]

Actually, Canadian and Australian 5 dollar bills and 5 Euro bills are a bit better than a US dollar bill, largely because the fabric in the other banknotes has more synthetic fibers in them and they hold up better, especially in a wet or muddy environment.

I remember being in a bar in Sydney, shooting the breeze with some locals, and I made a comment about the 'plastic' money. Their reply:

"That's so it slips between your finger more easily, mate!"

 

[m@Robertson]

What are you calling a belted tire?

The Schwalbe Marathon Plus is pretty much the acknowledged king of the urban utility world in terms of being flatproof. Its advertised as 'flatless' and thats what its been for me across a few bikes. The cargo bike broups I frequent all sing its praises. I use the Marathon Plus Tour because it has a pretty significantly articulated tread - smooth rolling but knobby-esque - so its a great winter tire I can leave on for the summer, and here on the coast I need tread year round because of the sand drifts that can pop up on the bike trails on any given day.

Another very common 'flatproof' tire in the same vein is the Continental Contact Plus which is available in a variety of 26", 27" and 700C sizes. Widest is the 26x2.2 though, which I have used on my Envoy. It used to be a cheaper tire than it is now. Big sales into rental fleets as again its essentially flatless and wears like iron... but it also rides like iron too. The Marathon Plus rides like a pillow compared to the Conti's.

The Schwalbe Super Moto X and a few others not as extreme as the Marathon in their product line use a thinner puncture-resistant belt. Thats the tire that failed on me with a 3/4" tear from God knows what back in January.

You won't find fat tires with built in belts or flat protection that is not just marketing BS. The reason is weight I think. Exceptions to this are a few really REALLY heavy 20" fat tires, or bona fide moped/light motorcycle tires if you have rims that will fit them.

On the (relatively) tiny side (700x28c), just last week I put Continental Gator Hardshells on my 1984 Vitus/Mavic SSC road bike. First bike I ever built and bringing it out of mothballs a bit here and a piece there. I still need to lose a few pounds off my gut before I should be riding it even with what are oversized tires for that bike.

 

[mschwett]

The Schwalbe Marathon Plus is pretty much the acknowledged king of the urban utility world in terms of being flatproof. Its advertised as 'flatless' and thats what its been for me across a few bikes. The cargo bike broups I frequent all sing its praises. I use the Marathon Plus Tour because it has a pretty significantly articulated tread - smooth rolling but knobby-esque - so its a great winter tire I can leave on for the usmmoer, and here on the coast I need tread year round because of the sand drifts that can pop up on the bike trails on any given day.

Another very common 'flatproof' tire in the same vein is the Continental Contact Plus which is available in a variety of 26", 27" and 700C sizes. Widest is the 26x2.2 though, which I have used on my Envoy. It used to be a cheaper tire than it is now. Big sales into rental fleets as again its essentially flatless and wears like iron... but it also rides like iron too. The Marathon Plus rides like a pillow compared to the Conti's.

The Schwalbe Super Moto X and a few others not as extreme as the Marathon in their product line use a thinner puncture-resistant belt. Thats the tire that failed on me with a 3/4" tear from God knows what back in January.

You won't find fat tires with built in belts or flat protection that is not just marketing BS. The reason is weight I think. Exceptions to this are a few really REALLY heavy 20" fat tires, or bona fide moped/light motorcycle tires if you have rims that will fit them.

On the (relatively) tiny side (700x28c), just last week I put Continental Gator Hardshells on my 1984 Vitus/Mavic SSC road bike. First bike I ever built and bringing it out of mothballs a bit here and a piece there. I still need to lose a few pounds off my gut before I should be riding it even with what are oversized tires for that bike.

View attachment 160427

i rode on 28mm gatorskin hardshells for around 1,500 miles on my creo when i got it - i was terrified of flats. didn’t get any!

 

[m@Robertson]

here is where things dont always go perfectly.

I would change valves. The Muc-offs should work fine - they're priced high enough they'd better - but still, every problem I have had with a tubeless install where I was using the right equipment (not trying to make pinned rims work, for instance) has been the valves. I use either Orange Seal Versavalves, or MBPs. The latter are inexpensive, no-frills and have never failed me across I think three different bikes. They have the one essential thing valves gotta have which is a metal backstop on the bottom so they never pull thru.

Amazon.com

The goo pileup around the entire valve base is puzzling. How does that happen? It doesn't look like a single leak, but maybe a leak around the entire base? A total base seal failure?

 

[fooferdoggie]

I would change valves. The Muc-offs should work fine - they're priced high enough they'd better - but still, every problem I have had with a tubeless install where I was using the right equipment (not trying to make pinned rims work, for instance) has been the valves. I use either Orange Seal Versavalves, or MBPs. The latter are inexpensive, no-frills and have never failed me across I think three different bikes. They have the one essential thing valves gotta have which is a metal backstop on the bottom so they never pull thru.

Amazon.com

The goo pileup around the entire valve base is puzzling. How does that happen? It doesn't look like a single leak, but maybe a leak around the entire base? A total base seal failure?

I had used silicone adhisive because all the valves would come loose no matter how tight I made them. but the silicone did not do any better so Now I use a double nut right away and it has taken care of the issue.. I am replacing the rim tape today it must have gotten damaged when I tool that glued in valve out. never had one pull through just come loose.

 

[fooferdoggie]

checked and the tape around the valve hole was all pitted. time for new tape.

 

[Deacon Blues]

checked and the tape around the valve hole was all pitted. time for new tape.

I hope your rim tape comes off easier than the rim tape on my Giant Defy road bike.
My rim tape, after 5 years of use, stopped sealing the rim, so I had to replace it, and what a job it was!
I ended up using a bottle of Goo Gone, which helped a lot, but still it was not a fun job, because my tape came off it bits and pieces.
It had me thinking that maybe going back to tubes wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I hope your rim tape comes off easier than the rim tape on my Giant Defy road bike.
My rim tape, after 5 years of use, stopped sealing the rim, so I had to replace it, and what a job it was!
I ended up using a bottle of Goo Gone, which helped a lot, but still it was not a fun job, because my tape came off it bits and pieces.
It had me thinking that maybe going back to tubes wouldn't be a bad idea.

should have used a heat gun. no it was only 8 months old.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I got another flat today. This time it was the front tire and the reason for the flat......another rim tape failure.
My wife kindly offered to take the tape off . She used Goo Gone and the tape came off without too much difficulty, but it left a mess of tape glue and dried sealant, so I'll be
spending some time cleaning the rim so new rim tape can be installed.

 

[Ben J]

She used Goo Gone and the tape came off without too much difficulty, but it left a mess of tape glue

Goo Gone is only a solvent. You have to mechanically remove the glue with a rag or something once goo gone mobilizes it. Otherwise it will just evaporate and the glue will re-congeal.

 

[etchlings]

I use a variety of tubed and tubeless tires on my ebikes. All three of my mtb-oriented bikes are tubeless.

• I use Flatout as the tubeless sealant. It never dries out (10 year lifespan) and so never needs refilling. No Stans Boogers, or Orange Seal rubber coatings inside the tire when those types dry out.
• Flatout as a tubeless sealant really works to seal flats. Saved me from a 6-nail strip of nailgun nails once on my Surly Big Fat Dummy, which was a fat bike shod with 4.8" Snowshoe 2XLs.
• With that same sealant, it coats the interior of the tire so refills are almost never necessary. Maybe once every month or two.

For the tubed tires, I use a variety of tubes but am trying to standardize on Schwalbe Air Plus where I can. Its a thicker tube but not as thick as a thornproof tube. The tube tires also use Flatout as a sealant.

I can see no detriment to either type one relative to the other in terms of reliability. Same with flatproofing, where thanks to the sealant I use, both tires are protected for holes up to about 1/2", and I've put this to the test, unfortunately. Thats the sealant and has no bearing on tubed or tubeless.

The decision to go one or the other is more about fear. A tubeless tire that is thoroughly munched may be more difficult to get back rolling again, although I do take along spare tubes just in case, along with a tire boot pkg in my kit. My cargo bikes use belted tires that are essentially flatproof in and of themselves. They are not tubeless-ready so I do tubes and sealant underneath. That extra flat protection of the belted tire counters the weight savings of tubeless in that application.

If you don’t mind the ask: How much flat out do you put in your non-fat tubed (and tubeless) tires? Their own recommendations seem VERY high for volume of sealant to inject, compared to Stan’s or Orange, etc.

 

[fooferdoggie]

How much flat out do you put in on non-fat tires, vs tubes in same? If you don’t mind the ask. Their own recommendations seem VERY high for volume of sealant to inject, compared to Stan’s or Orange, etc.

You need more as it’s so thick.

 

[PCeBiker]

How much flat out do you put in on non-fat tires, vs tubes in same? If you don’t mind the ask. Their own recommendations seem VERY high for volume of sealant to inject, compared to Stan’s or Orange, etc.

I used ½ a bottle in each of my 26"X4" fat tires.
You might be closer to ¼ bottle like a dirt bike.
It goes by the volume of air in the tire.

Be sure to buy the Sportsman Formula for the best protection. (Unless your e-bike goes 50 mph, then you'll need the highway formula)

 

[Chargeride]

My original road bike from the 70s still has old school tubs as we called them , tyres that were sewn up at the back and glued to a flat rim.
They were an utter pain in the xss.

 

[m@Robertson]

If you don’t mind the ask: How much flat out do you put in your non-fat tubed (and tubeless) tires? Their own recommendations seem VERY high for volume of sealant to inject, compared to Stan’s or Orange, etc.

Well, for reference its 16 oz for a fat tire. I was told by Flatout for your typical 26x2.5" tire to use 8 oz. For a portly 29er - 29x2.6 - to go somewhere in between. Say 12 oz. Yes you use a lot but remember also you want this injection to last the life of the tire and over the years some is going to come out. Also it spreads to a film that is tenacious all over the tire interior. Flatout doesn't seem to clump on one side of the tire over time like Slime does.

Back when I was using Slime on fat tires, the general community wisdom was to double the recommended dosage. I had one flat where I needed every ounce of that extra.