Tube vs. Tubeless on ebikes

[mschwett]

I think this may be a function of the tire more than it is the tubeless platform. If the tires fit tightly to the rims, you can do entirely without sealant, crazily enough. The tires will go flat in a couple days like that, but still you can go ride in a sealant-free tire.

Maxxis tires in particular on DT Swiss rims I have found fit like gloves on three separate bikes, with no sealant needed as described above. With sealant inside - the same magical Flatout I was going on about earlier - the tubeless tires stay inflated and rideable for months. Its a slow decline, but very slow. This is also true for my fat bikes with Vee tires (Snowshoe XL and Snow Avalanche) shod on Nextie carbon fiber rims. Nextie seems to have a rep for tight fitment so maybe the star of that show is the rims.

for sure - and some tires are known to be more porous than others. when my tires are new and freshly filled with 2oz of sealant, they lose maybe 1psi a week. after three months (at which point the rear is getting to 60% worn) it’s more like 2psi a day! if i don’t refill them, and remove the tire, there’s hardly any sealant left, so it’s mostly the tire and tire to rim seal doing the work.

i would not be surprised if eventually tires and rims were tweaked a bit further than the current standard to simply eliminate the tubes and sealant for regular duty, with the sealant only functioning to seal punctures.

 

[PCeBiker]

They are off-roard,

I doubt that they roar off road, but I bet they do on the asphalt?

I want a street type tire that don't buzz on the asphalt.

I'd rather take my street tire off-road than take my off-road tires on the asphalt.

 

[PCeBiker]

There were dual compound tires available for my motorcycle in the 80's.
They had a harder rubber on the center tread of the tire and a softer rubber on the sides.

I'm sure the same technology can be applied to ebike tires.

One piece tires that taper from a hard and durable center tread, to a soft foam in the middle.
One piece tires. No air

 

[Stefan Mikes]

There were dual compound tires available for my motorcycle in the 80's.
They had a harder rubber on the center tread of the tire and a softer rubber on the sides.

I'm sure the same technology can be applied to ebike tires.

It has been applied.
Specialized Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss and Schwalbe Smart Sam tyres are what I use everyday.
Each of them is made of dual component, with a hard central tread and soft knobby sides. There are many more dual component tyres in the market.

 

[PCeBiker]

It has been applied.

Are you talking Tannus?
I don't think muck of Tannus

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Are you talking Tannus?

Not. Read the edited post #44

 

[rob feature]

Tubes are senseless these days. Rim and tire tech is mature for tubeless setups, sealant is good, and rotating mass savings (especially when considering the inserts some use for flat protection) improve ride quality, acceleration and handling. You also eliminate pinch flats and can use lower pressures. I can't get more than a couple hundred miles on a tube without a flat - even on pavement. Tubeless flats? Zero in 4 years over several different bikes.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

My own observation is that the vast majority of e-bike riders cannot or will not fix a flat in the field. While that is shocking to me, it is what it is. With tubeless tires those poor souls will be on their way without an UberX 99 percent of the time.

 

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[PDoz]

They are off-roard, but I don't see anything for puncture protection on them for main track - just sidewalls. Compare with i.e. Maraphon GT 365 from Schwalbe.
Is side protection useful for MTB bikes? I don't think it makes sense for regular rides a lot...

View attachment 160159View attachment 160158

Take a closer look at the mtb tyre - 4 layers of carcass AND the knobs - those knobs typically have a stiffer central compound and sticky / soft outer layer, so it's really 2 extra layers. The advertising dept hasn't bothered using pretty colors, because they are showing the EXO section, which relates to the side wall . Exo are flimsy, exo + a little less flimsy, but double down hill are toooo stiff. Goldilocks had nothing on the average mtb rider.....

Maxis will usually have three tread construction options, and 6 different options in sidewall construction - an identical looking tyre can have a weight difference of 400 gms! Same size / tread pattern , just different levels of construction / compliance / grip / longevity / brag factor.

For what it's worth, YES we slice sidewalls - on sharp edged rocks , sticks, landing sideways at speed on pretty much anything. ... or landing hard enough on a rock to squash all that technology against a rim that decides it doesn't want to be a rim any longer....

 

[DaveMatthews]

My own observation is that the vast majority of e-bike riders cannot or will not fix a flat in the field. While that is shocking to me, it is what it is. With tubeless tires those poor souls will be on their way without an UberX 99 percent of the time.

I "think" I'm ready for that sad side (of the road) show...
Have a battery powered pump, Stan's Darts, regular bacon strips, tire levers, a $5 bill for a big rip, and a spare bottle of Stan's.
I prolly just jinxed myself....

 

[PDoz]

I "think" I'm ready for that sad side (of the road) show...
Have a battery powered pump, Stan's Darts, regular bacon strips, tire levers, a $5 bill for a big rip, and a spare bottle of Stan's.
I prolly just jinxed myself....

Wander into you local Doc and grab yourself some suture material NOW . Not only does it help with a sidewall slice, it's really good fun to take out when your mate is bleeding.

 

[rob feature]

I "think" I'm ready for that sad side (of the road) show...
Have a battery powered pump, Stan's Darts, regular bacon strips, tire levers, a $5 bill for a big rip, and a spare bottle of Stan's.
I prolly just jinxed myself....

Did I miss the part explaining why a 5 dollar bill offers a better rip repair than a single?

Beer while waiting on the uber?

 

[DaveMatthews]

Did I miss the part explaining why a 5 dollar bill offers a better rip repair than a single?

Beer while waiting on the uber?

We ain't gotz no singles in Canucklehead land no mo...
Besides, it's 5x better!

 

[rob feature]

We ain't gotz no singles in Canucklehead land no mo...
Besides, it's 5x better!

loonies would be tricker, huh?

 

[DaveMatthews]

loonies would be tricker, huh?

Yes, I are!

 

[DaveMatthews]

Wander into you local Doc and grab yourself some suture material NOW . Not only does it help with a sidewall slice, it's really good fun to take out when your mate is bleeding.

What if I need repair? Is that when you say "suture self"?

 

[BlackHand]

My own observation is that the vast majority of e-bike riders cannot or will not fix a flat in the field. While that is shocking to me, it is what it is. With tubeless tires those poor souls will be on their way without an UberX 99 percent of the time.

OK, sure. Do you think those same riders will remember to keep up with their sealant refresh schedule so that WHEN they get a puncture it will seal properly? Maybe, maybe not...

Also suspect that's why so many bikes come from the mfg as tubeless-ready and not tubeless.

Every flat(4?) has been a learning experience. Last one took a little over 10 minutes to pull the rear wheel and pop on the spare Tubolito so I could finish getting to work.

I'm sure I'll try tubeless at some point, but not with these tires.

 

[m@Robertson]

My first flat in two years on a daily driver bike was in January of 2023. None since. Bike is a great big 8 ft long cargo bike using tubes, belted tires, sealant blah blah.

Sure there have been times over the years when I get one flat a week for a month straight. But thats all chance. And some stupidity. I have since learned when there is a home or apartment complex construction site on a given road, I pick another road for a few months.

You can't blame tubes, praise tubeless or do it the other way around in terms of flat frequency. They are the same, provided the rider does their part and uses the right equipment for either choice.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Matt, the biggest issue for most of us, the tubed wheel users, is first to remove the tyre from the wheel, and replacing it after the tube replacement next.

Unless it is a big cut in the tubeless tyre, it is possible to fix the puncture without even removing the wheel. Or, the punctures seal themselves.

Were it practical to me, I would go tubeless on all my e-bikes.