TQ motor

[AntonioAlfaro]

Turns out. my dealer does not have the TQ Service Tool. Moving forward, I don’t see how they can offer me proper service. The only fair solution I can think of is to refund me so I can find a manufacturer/dealer that can assist me in the future. Would love to others’ thoughts?

Hello Sean, I apologize for the unfortunate response from your dealer. A customer investing more than $7,000 deserves more attention. I tend to believe that there might be some ignorance and technological outdatedness on the part of your dealer, as acquiring the TQ Dealer Service Tool is quite straightforward if they don't already have it. A small investment of around $100 for the service Dongle is all that's needed. They can register as a dealer with TQ Systems, download the Dealer Service Software tool, and request activation. From that point onward, they will have access to manuals, service bulletins, exclusive videos, and seminars for dealers. Sean, I recommend going back to your dealer and explaining this to them.
If that approach doesn't work, there are other alternative solutions available !

 

[Vamos]

Hello Sean, I apologize for the unfortunate response from your dealer. A customer investing more than $7,000 deserves more attention. I tend to believe that there might be some ignorance and technological outdatedness on the part of your dealer, as acquiring the TQ Dealer Service Tool is quite straightforward if they don't already have it. A small investment of around $100 for the service Dongle is all that's needed. They can register as a dealer with TQ Systems, download the Dealer Service Software tool, and request activation. From that point onward, they will have access to manuals, service bulletins, exclusive videos, and seminars for dealers. Sean, I recommend going back to your dealer and explaining this to them.
If that approach doesn't work, there are other alternative solutions available !

If a dealer sold me a bike that they can’t get running properly I would return it. This might be just the first problem. If you want the TQ motor buy a Trek from one of the corporate Trek stores near you. I think that they will be better at handling any problems that may arise.

 

[Sean McIllwain]

Hello Sean, I apologize for the unfortunate response from your dealer. A customer investing more than $7,000 deserves more attention. I tend to believe that there might be some ignorance and technological outdatedness on the part of your dealer, as acquiring the TQ Dealer Service Tool is quite straightforward if they don't already have it. A small investment of around $100 for the service Dongle is all that's needed. They can register as a dealer with TQ Systems, download the Dealer Service Software tool, and request activation. From that point onward, they will have access to manuals, service bulletins, exclusive videos, and seminars for dealers. Sean, I recommend going back to your dealer and explaining this to them.
If that approach doesn't work, there are other alternative solutions available !

Thanks for all of your input!!!

Turns out they do have the dongle. They said they updated the firmware. Now I’m even more concerned. The bike still only applies power intermittently and it’s even evident by the display. I’m in the highest mode, holding a steady pace, and the power applied by the motor jumps all over place: 50w, 125w, 5w, and then goes to 0w. Half the time my watts show as 0w as well. Motor seems to apply decent watts from a standstill and then goes back to its schizophrenic manner. In mode III, I should have been cruising like a pro, but it felt like riding an acoustic bike with the occasional assistance. That my shop thinks this normal is not good. As it stands, my Creo is soooooo much more reliable and fun. I can’t believe that a TQ motor wouldn’t ride as well.

My shop is supposedly sending it back to Pinarello. I’m hoping this a fluke issue and gets resolved. I’ve had Pinarellos in the past and know this is not up to their quality standard. But after all I’ve been through, my faith is waning

 

[AntonioAlfaro]

Thanks for all of your input!!!

Turns out they do have the dongle. They said they updated the firmware. Now I’m even more concerned. The bike still only applies power intermittently and it’s even evident by the display. I’m in the highest mode, holding a steady pace, and the power applied by the motor jumps all over place: 50w, 125w, 5w, and then goes to 0w. Half the time my watts show as 0w as well. Motor seems to apply decent watts from a standstill and then goes back to its schizophrenic manner. In mode III, I should have been cruising like a pro, but it felt like riding an acoustic bike with the occasional assistance. That my shop thinks this normal is not good. As it stands, my Creo is soooooo much more reliable and fun. I can’t believe that a TQ motor wouldn’t ride as well.

My shop is supposedly sending it back to Pinarello. I’m hoping this a fluke issue and gets resolved. I’ve had Pinarellos in the past and know this is not up to their quality standard. But after all I’ve been through, my faith is waning

Hi Sean, I would like to understand a little more about the problem you are having. If you allow it, I would like to know the configuration you currently have on your engine for each of the assistance levels. And also know if there are currently any error messages reported by the system.

 

[Sean McIllwain]

Hi Sean, I would like to understand a little more about the problem you are having. If you allow it, I would like to know the configuration you currently have on your engine for each of the assistance levels. And also know if there are currently any error messages reported by the system.

Any guidance you can offer is much appreciated.

1. On my 3rd ride back in September, on an extremely steep dirt climb, the motor quit and an error code was displayed. I had to hike-a-bike to the top of the climb and then rode the bike back to the shop with no motor assistance. Along this ride, I occasionally tried to restart the system and it finally came back on with no error code. I did not take note of the error code as I expected it to still be on the display when I arrived at the shop. No errors since.

2. Again on a steep climb (road this time), while holding a steady pace, it felt as if the motor was stopping and then coming back on. I’d be happily climbing and suddenly, I’d feel a drag and have to increase my wattage, and then I’d have to ease up as the assistance returned. Very disconcerting sensation. Tried the various modes to alleviate the problem, but that didn’t work. There was also an intermittent grinding sound from the motor (like broken plastic rolling around). I typically ride with AirPods, so I’m not sure if the grinding has been there previously or was new to this ride. These two rides were custom engine settings. I can’t recall the exact settings (I’ve since reset it back to the defaults), but pedal response set to the highest level.

3. On my last test ride, I reset the app settings to the defaults, but experienced the same problems as in number 2 above. In this last test ride, I also noticed that the power applied by the motor on the top tube display was extremely erratic and often my watts showed as 0w even though I was applying power.

Thanks!

 

[AntonioAlfaro]

Any guidance you can offer is much appreciated.

1. On my 3rd ride back in September, on an extremely steep dirt climb, the motor quit and an error code was displayed. I had to hike-a-bike to the top of the climb and then rode the bike back to the shop with no motor assistance. Along this ride, I occasionally tried to restart the system and it finally came back on with no error code. I did not take note of the error code as I expected it to still be on the display when I arrived at the shop. No errors since.

2. Again on a steep climb (road this time), while holding a steady pace, it felt as if the motor was stopping and then coming back on. I’d be happily climbing and suddenly, I’d feel a drag and have to increase my wattage, and then I’d have to ease up as the assistance returned. Very disconcerting sensation. Tried the various modes to alleviate the problem, but that didn’t work. There was also an intermittent grinding sound from the motor (like broken plastic rolling around). I typically ride with AirPods, so I’m not sure if the grinding has been there previously or was new to this ride. These two rides were custom engine settings. I can’t recall the exact settings (I’ve since reset it back to the defaults), but pedal response set to the highest level.

3. On my last test ride, I reset the app settings to the defaults, but experienced the same problems as in number 2 above. In this last test ride, I also noticed that the power applied by the motor on the top tube display was extremely erratic and often my watts showed as 0w even though I was applying power.

Thanks!

Hola Sean, knowing that the firmware is up to date, which is very good, if a malfunction persists as you describe, it is possible that there may be a more significant issue with the motor. However, my engineering background urges me to revisit some fundamental aspects just to ensure the basics. The performance of an eBike, especially a road eBike, relies heavily on correct configuration. For this purpose, TQ provides the TQ E-Bike app. Some bicycle manufacturers also have their version of the app, but I prefer to use the one provided by TQ. If you're not using this app, I recommend downloading it and taking a screenshot of the motor configuration for each assistance level, then send them to me. It's something similar to the one I'm attaching as reference.

 

[AntonioAlfaro]

Additionally to the screenshots, it's important to know a bit about your performance as a cyclist. Regardless of your fitness level, it's important to have some idea of your weight and the power you can sustainably deliver. Please provide me with these basic pieces of information as well

 

[Sean McIllwain]

w mmm

Hola Sean, knowing that the firmware is up to date, which is very good, if a malfunction persists as you describe, it is possible that there may be a more significant issue with the motor. However, my engineering background urges me to revisit some fundamental aspects just to ensure the basics. The performance of an eBike, especially a road eBike, relies heavily on correct configuration. For this purpose, TQ provides the TQ E-Bike app. Some bicycle manufacturers also have their version of the app, but I prefer to use the one provided by TQ. If you're not using this app, I recommend downloading it and taking a screenshot of the motor configuration for each assistance level, then send them to me. It's something similar to the one I'm attaching as reference.

I am using the TQ app. Pinarello doesn’t have their own version like TREK.
The bike is no longer in my possession. It’s back at the shop, so I can’t connect to it to get those screenshots.

I don’t have an engineering background, but have owned over a half dozen e-bikes (my wife says I have issues ) with motors from Specialized, Bosch, Yamaha, Mahle, and now TQ. I'm wondering if the torque sensor is not properly/consistently registering my input, causing the sporadic assistance from the motor.
.

 

[Sean McIllwain]

Additionally to the screenshots, it's important to know a bit about your performance as a cyclist. Regardless of your fitness level, it's important to have some idea of your weight and the power you can sustainably deliver. Please provide me with these basic pieces of information as well

I'm a small guy: 5”4’ and 132 lbs. My average watts on solo flat rides hovers around 80w and on climbs, I'm comfortable between 100w - 120w. For what’s it worth, I’ve put over 13,000 miles on my Specialized Creo with no problems at all. This time around, I wanted a dedicated e-gravel bike and chose the Nytro E5 Gravel as I was impressed by the reviews and love Pinarello's aesthetic

 

[rdv]

If there are members of this forum who, like me, are physically/medically constrained and unable to take full advantage of the motor's output, we might be able to help to nudge TQ into taking better care of us. I've written to them a handful of times requesting improved assistance with the next substantive firmware release (due soon?) and get polite but non-committal PR responses. Hearing from others might tilt the scales.

At issue is the 200% maximum assistance vis-a-vis the motor's 300W maximum output. It works fine for riders who can readily generate 150W of power or more, but falls short for those who cannot sustain more than 100W, which begets only 200W of support, leaving 100w of motor capacity untapped (and High mode largely wasted).

My request has been to increase maximum assistance to at least 300%, at least in High mode. No change to the motor would be required (though even stronger support would be welcome for sure). To the layman it seems to amount to little more than firmware/software tweaks.

If this would benefit some of you as well, then I would urge you to let it be known to the TQ at [email protected].

Thanks, regards, Rob

 

[Sean McIllwain]

If there are members of this forum who, like me, are physically/medically constrained and unable to take full advantage of the motor's output, we might be able to help to nudge TQ into taking better care of us. I've written to them a handful of times requesting improved assistance with the next substantive firmware release (due soon?) and get polite but non-committal PR responses. Hearing from others might tilt the scales.

At issue is the 200% maximum assistance vis-a-vis the motor's 300W maximum output. It works fine for riders who can readily generate 150W of power or more, but falls short for those who cannot sustain more than 100W, which begets only 200W of support, leaving 100w of motor capacity untapped (and High mode largely wasted).

My request has been to increase maximum assistance to at least 300%, at least in High mode. No change to the motor would be required (though even stronger support would be welcome for sure). To the layman it seems to amount to little more than firmware/software tweaks.

If this would benefit some of you as well, then I would urge you to let it be known to the TQ at [email protected].

Thanks, regards, Rob

My shop ended up refunding me for my TQ powered bike. In retrospect, I believe the TQ motor specs do not match real world experiences. My 2020 Specialized Creo (240w motor) is much more powerful even with max power set at 70%.

Hopefully, TQ's upcoming software updates will make all the difference

 

[rdv]

Sean,
I caught up with your unfortunate travails. You might've been on the right track in suspecting the torque sensor, but if Antonio couldn't help, the writing was on the wall. It would have been great if the shop had provided you with another TQ equipped Pinarello, to (hopefully) confirm that the first motor was a lemon.

I'm generally satisfied with my Trek D+, but have no personal basis of comparison to the Creo, except that Creo riders seem to do quite well with it. What's next for you?

I've experienced some aspects that echo yours, but they are not deal breakers:
-The wattage reported for the motor jumps around, starting from 30W. I only pay attention to the maximums.
-I've experienced an occasional surge-drag on some variable ascents, mostly related to inconsistent input by me. I found that setting the response time to 'gradual' helps mitigate it.

I share your wish that a firmware update comes along soon and offers tangible benefits.

 

[Sean McIllwain]

Up next for me is the Creo 2. I've placed my order and it should arrive next month. This way, I'll have my original Creo as a dedicated road bike the Creo 2 as my gravel bike.



I want to see TQ (and Fazua) succeed! The more high-end competition that exists will only result in better technology. I'm looking forward to a 25lb bike with a 600wh battery

 

[rdv]

Congratulations and good luck.

 

[Captain Slow]

Up next for me is the Creo 2. I've placed my order and it should arrive next month. This way, I'll have my original Creo as a dedicated road bike the Creo 2 as my gravel bike.

View attachment 169112

I want to see TQ (and Fazua) succeed! The more high-end competition that exists will only result in better technology. I'm looking forward to a 25lb bike with a 600wh battery

I'm looking forward to an ebike like that as well!

 

[AntonioAlfaro]

Hello friends, I've been disconnected for a while, but I'm catching up and see that Sean resolved his issue satisfactorily. I'm happy for Sean, but I would have liked a 100% TQ solution.
rdv, your proposal to TQ seems like a very good initiative. Let's hope that the new firmware release includes these changes.
As of today, I have completed 46 rides on the Trek Domane+ SLR, covering a total of 2400 km, approximately 118 hours. Overall, I haven't had any significant issues to climb. I only recall noticing a grinding noise a few months ago, but after updating the firmware, making some minor adjustments to my settings, and understanding the reason for the grinding noise, I can now say it is easily manageable.
I've also learned not to depend on or even pay attention to the cyclist's power reported by TQ. In any case, I believe that for touring, what matters is a reference, not an exact value.
I want to mention that I find the information collected by the TREK Central app very valuable, and I recommend saving each of these files after completing your rides. I will share more about an experiment I am trying later on. Greetings.

 

[AntonioAlfaro]

One week after the release of the "Ammersee" update, my TQ system was completely updated. From a procedural standpoint, it was really easy and without any complications. I must say I had high expectations since they announced this long-awaited update, but with my first ride, I'm starting to have doubts. I need to do about 25 rides at least to be able to refer quantitatively to this update, but with my first 4 rides on routes that were previously ridden many times with the previous software version, I find a higher energy consumption from the battery in exchange for a more comfortable feeling of assistance. It may be too early to have doubts, but when they announced an improvement in the system's "performance," I expected something different. As I said, these are my initial perceptions. I will continue to ride and make qualitative records. Please let me know your experience.

 

[rdv]

Thanks Antonio. You continue to be the source of valued feedback.
I've been disappointed by the focus and extent of Ammersee update as announced and let TQ know (but apparently not worthy of a response). I would have rushed to get the update had it been substantive, but haven't felt motivated yet.
Might you be able to elaborate on your sense of 'more comfortable feeling of assistance'? It might pique my interest enough to get going.
Thanks.

 

[AntonioAlfaro]

Thanks Antonio. You continue to be the source of valued feedback.
I've been disappointed by the focus and extent of Ammersee update as announced and let TQ know (but apparently not worthy of a response). I would have rushed to get the update had it been substantive, but haven't felt motivated yet.
Might you be able to elaborate on your sense of 'more comfortable feeling of assistance'? It might pique my interest enough to get going.
Thanks.

Hello Robert, possibly our interests are not the same as TQ. I agree with you that a year-long wait for an update, and one that was also announced with great emphasis, promised great things. My professional background has a hard time accepting a new version of software like this without a complete explanation of what has been updated. "Just update and don't think nor ask."
I have looked for information, comments, reviews... in the country of origin, and there is nothing about it. Will it be too premature?
For now I will limit myself to taking data from my routes and I hope to have something clearer soon. About my perception of functioning, I will tell you soon once I pass an assimilation curve. Greetings

 

[rdv]

Antonio, regards. I look forward to your perception of the functional/performance aspects of the TQ Ammersee update, as much from your subjective sense, as data based.
Meanwhile... after a year of riding I'm curious as to what tuning settings you are currently using. I had settled on E 100W/100%, M 150W/150%, H 300W/200% as being as good as any, but thinking over how to best utilize my limited capabilities (100W sustainable, 150W for 1-2 minutes intense effort) I'll try boosting M to 200W/200% to better tackle 5-10% grades, reserving H for intense efforts on short 10-15% grades.
Best Rob