Thanks.. I *might * be able to get a couple more mm on the left (which, come to think of it, is actually the worst knee), but looking at the cranks, it appears the right one has made contact a few times already, so that can't go any closer. Maybe I will try moving the left cleat slightly further out.. thanks - great suggestion!
2023 Trek Domane+
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Just thought, backed up by scant knowledge, but have you matched the saddle position (relative to cranks) of your painless bikes? Have you tried switching the saddle with one from your other bikes?
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I have matched those dimensions as best I can, thanks, but not saddle, although they look similar. I am however very sensitive to Q-factor, or stance width due to the nature of my almost nonexistent knee cartilage and biomechanics. Had to give up the MTB in 2015 after a severe knee injury that landed me on crutches after I did too much climbing in one day. It had a pretty standard 175mm Q-factor, and that's when I figured out what was going on, since I had done the climb on my road bike without issue. SInce then it's been road bikes only - 145-150mm. One reason I bought the new Domane was because it is the narrowest of the mid-drive e-bikes, at 163mm. But it may still be too wide for me. I will see if the left cleat adjustment helps at all, I got maybe 2-3mm so I'm not expecting a miracle, but you never know.
Thank you for the suggestion.
Thank you for the suggestion.
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I had Trek Powerfly HT and no matter what I did still gave me knee issues, had same issue with another manual MTB. The only solution was new bike in both cases, different brands. My lastest ebike is same model as wife's, did few 100kms on her medium frame with no issues so bought L frame version.
The other thing to try is increasing your flexibility and muscle strength, do yoga and weights. Cycling doesn't make for most balanced leg muscles.
The other thing to try is increasing your flexibility and muscle strength, do yoga and weights. Cycling doesn't make for most balanced leg muscles.
Any progress/improvement?
Your best bet is likely to be a good fitting as Calcoaster suggests. Not the bike shop variety, but from a professional fitter with bio-mechanical expertise, like the guy in the attached clip, if you can get a hold of one within your reach. It's an expense, but the Domane+ is a significant investment that ought to serve you better.
Thanks guys - sorry for the delayed reply - it has taken time to confirm what's going on because I get pain when I ride it that takes a few days to subside. I have the exact problem of the guy in that video - I need a narrower pedal stance, not wider, and there's no way to get it - my feet are almost brushing the cranks now (fairly straight, not pointed outward). Of course I already have bad knees, and I can almost feel the extra width as I ride, especially after about 10 miles. Crazy. It's only 18mm (3/4"), but I had the same issue on my MTB. Just FYI - in early spring I was riding 300-400 mi/mo on my three other road bikes without issues.
Last Saturday I rode it for 12 miles and had to layoff for several days. Yesterday, after waiting a few days, I took my gravel bike out for 15 miles and it felt great and I feel fine today. No pain or stiffness. Same when I rode my Waterford for 23 mi a couple weeks ago. No pain. Both those bikes have traditional narrow road cranks. I can come to no other conclusion than the slightly wider crank width on this bike just doesn't work for me, within the repetitive nature of pedaling. With the narrowest Q for an e-road bike, I was sure I would be fine, but apparently not. At this point I am going to sell it and move on
I have listed it locally, and will put an ad on this site as well, in case someone wants one (54 cm) at a good price. Thanks, appreciate all your insights.
Last Saturday I rode it for 12 miles and had to layoff for several days. Yesterday, after waiting a few days, I took my gravel bike out for 15 miles and it felt great and I feel fine today. No pain or stiffness. Same when I rode my Waterford for 23 mi a couple weeks ago. No pain. Both those bikes have traditional narrow road cranks. I can come to no other conclusion than the slightly wider crank width on this bike just doesn't work for me, within the repetitive nature of pedaling. With the narrowest Q for an e-road bike, I was sure I would be fine, but apparently not. At this point I am going to sell it and move on
I have listed it locally, and will put an ad on this site as well, in case someone wants one (54 cm) at a good price. Thanks, appreciate all your insights.
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Quite understandable. Riding should be enjoyable, not punishing.
I would imagine hub motor ebikes would come with narrower q factors. Have you tried the Domane+ AL5 or looked into carbon frames featuring the Mahle x20 and others? I haven't kept up with those but expect that they are also undergoing refinement, likely discussed in associated forums. Do come back to let us know what worked for you.
I would imagine hub motor ebikes would come with narrower q factors. Have you tried the Domane+ AL5 or looked into carbon frames featuring the Mahle x20 and others? I haven't kept up with those but expect that they are also undergoing refinement, likely discussed in associated forums. Do come back to let us know what worked for you.
AntonioAlfaro
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Hi guys,
I would like to know if anyone in this group is using the TQ range extender, and what has been your experience. I will appreciate your comments
I would like to know if anyone in this group is using the TQ range extender, and what has been your experience. I will appreciate your comments
AntonioAlfaro
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MinnBobber
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Depending on what you are looking for in an E bike, hub motors may be the latest and greatest.Fantastic to know that. I guess I never considered that option (rear hub motor). I tend to go for the latest and greatest
For me, the hub motor Stromer bikes cannot be topped for my criteria:
1. Has to feel natural!! I have never ridden an Ebike that feels as natural as the Stromer (hub drive) series. Just that Your legs now are on steroids.
2.For @mtnroads …. Stromer and hubs must have a small Q factor with no wide mid motor and single chainring……
3. RANGE. Efficient for high speed cruising. Nothing is more efficient for that than a direct drive hub motor. I have gone 66 miles using only 41% of battery at almost 19 mph pace.
Mid drive gang tout their “efficiency “ cuz they can climb better but that is ultra high torque capability, not efficiency. Power is lost thru every connection on mid drives, motor to belt or gears, thru the chain and rear gears and finally to the wheel…… Hub: motor to wheel…..
4. Quiet: quiet at speed . Again, never ridden any mid or hub as quiet as rear hub Stromer.
Every hub I have ridden gets louder as you go faster. Are there now quiet high mph mids?
You should at least check out the hub drive world.
Note: if I was getting a E mtn bike, it would be mid drive for that highest torque output.
AntonioAlfaro
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Grinding Noise
What seemed perfect ceased to be so. My odometer has crossed the 1000 km mark, and in the last three rides, a terrifying noise started coming from the TQ50 motor of my 2023 Domane+ SLR. For a moment, I thought some mechanism inside the engine was being ground because it was an abnormal noise I had never heard before. After my initial terror subsided a bit and and thinking about my return home, I began to notice that this deafening noise occurred under certain circumstances, but most of the time or when the motor was in OFF mode, it did not happen. I found that the grinding noise was correlated with my cadence, the power from both me and the motor, and the rear gear ratio. The noise didn't occur when I was climbing a hill, applying power to the pedals. It happens when you're on a flat slope, stop pedaling for a moment, and then start rolling again. When you begin pedaling again, there seems to be a kind of desynchronization between the motor and the pedal axle, and the grinding noise appears. It's as if there are unsuccessful attempts to engage the motor with the transmission axle. During these moments, I observe that I'm delivering some power, I'm over-rotating, and the motor is delivering very little power (no more than about 10W). However, if I shift to a higher gear, reducing rotation and increasing the power delivered by the motor, the noise disappears completely. As long as the motor is delivering enough power (more than 30W, I'd say), the dreadful grinding noise doesn't occur.
Is this an intrinsic characteristic of the TQ50 motor? Is it a design flaw? Is it a software issue with motor control? Is it normal and should one simply avoid the conditions in which it occurs?
I'd like to know if anyone in this forum is experiencing the same noise.
What seemed perfect ceased to be so. My odometer has crossed the 1000 km mark, and in the last three rides, a terrifying noise started coming from the TQ50 motor of my 2023 Domane+ SLR. For a moment, I thought some mechanism inside the engine was being ground because it was an abnormal noise I had never heard before. After my initial terror subsided a bit and and thinking about my return home, I began to notice that this deafening noise occurred under certain circumstances, but most of the time or when the motor was in OFF mode, it did not happen. I found that the grinding noise was correlated with my cadence, the power from both me and the motor, and the rear gear ratio. The noise didn't occur when I was climbing a hill, applying power to the pedals. It happens when you're on a flat slope, stop pedaling for a moment, and then start rolling again. When you begin pedaling again, there seems to be a kind of desynchronization between the motor and the pedal axle, and the grinding noise appears. It's as if there are unsuccessful attempts to engage the motor with the transmission axle. During these moments, I observe that I'm delivering some power, I'm over-rotating, and the motor is delivering very little power (no more than about 10W). However, if I shift to a higher gear, reducing rotation and increasing the power delivered by the motor, the noise disappears completely. As long as the motor is delivering enough power (more than 30W, I'd say), the dreadful grinding noise doesn't occur.
Is this an intrinsic characteristic of the TQ50 motor? Is it a design flaw? Is it a software issue with motor control? Is it normal and should one simply avoid the conditions in which it occurs?
I'd like to know if anyone in this forum is experiencing the same noise.
Jack Cox
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There was a thing with the lock ring getting loose, which makes a similar racket Have you checked that?
AntonioAlfaro
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Thank you, Jack, for your timely comment. I suppose you're referring to the ring that secures the chain sprocket to the motor shaft?. I will check.
AntonioAlfaro
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Searching a bit in various forums, especially in MTB forums that use the TQ50 motor, I come across the fact that this same issue is well-known to them, and they have even received a response from the manufacturer clarifying their stance. I am attaching a YouTube link where I found the following response from TQ:
"@RobRidesEMTB
To add - the motors are near silent on descents - barely any noticeable rattles (especially compared with Shimano / Bosch)Also, TQ responded to a small number users experiencing noises. Here’s what they said:
Hey Rob! Just wanted to give you a quick heads up regarding the noise discussionsWe are currently working on this topic. It has no influence on the motor’s performance or durability and seams to be no more than a peculiarity of one of the sprag clutches of our motor. If the motor’s assist is very low (less than ~ 10W) it seams that the electric motors torque is not enough to rotate the clutch, but not fully engage it. This can lead to the weird rattling/grinding noise. The forces in such a scenario are however extremely low and do not put any mentionable wear on the internals of the motor. From everything we know and all the 1000s of field testing kilometers we have already done this issue is nothing to worry about. Nevertheless the low noise is one of our strongest USPs and we are working on a solution. We believe that some tweaks in the motor controller algorithm could reduce or even completely remove this noise. Our goal is to roll out a software update before the end of this year.
"
"@RobRidesEMTB
To add - the motors are near silent on descents - barely any noticeable rattles (especially compared with Shimano / Bosch)Also, TQ responded to a small number users experiencing noises. Here’s what they said:
Hey Rob! Just wanted to give you a quick heads up regarding the noise discussionsWe are currently working on this topic. It has no influence on the motor’s performance or durability and seams to be no more than a peculiarity of one of the sprag clutches of our motor. If the motor’s assist is very low (less than ~ 10W) it seams that the electric motors torque is not enough to rotate the clutch, but not fully engage it. This can lead to the weird rattling/grinding noise. The forces in such a scenario are however extremely low and do not put any mentionable wear on the internals of the motor. From everything we know and all the 1000s of field testing kilometers we have already done this issue is nothing to worry about. Nevertheless the low noise is one of our strongest USPs and we are working on a solution. We believe that some tweaks in the motor controller algorithm could reduce or even completely remove this noise. Our goal is to roll out a software update before the end of this year.
"
AntonioAlfaro
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I also found this interesting discussion:
www.emtbforums.com
TQ HPR50 Grinding Noise
OK, I''ve just now figured the factors that produce the grind sound, for me. Any time, and for me every time, the pedal rate and force i apply on the crank fall below what's needed to activate the motor, the grind sound occurs. For example this will occur while riding on a level surface in a...
www.emtbforums.com
Jack Cox
Member
The other thing I've read about is noise from
Do any of these sound like your issue?I also found this interesting discussion:
TQ HPR50 Grinding Noise
OK, I''ve just now figured the factors that produce the grind sound, for me. Any time, and for me every time, the pedal rate and force i apply on the crank fall below what's needed to activate the motor, the grind sound occurs. For example this will occur while riding on a level surface in a...
AntonioAlfaro
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Jack, it's exactly the grinding sound they describe in that forum.
Jack Cox
Member
Interesting - I'm on the fence about pulling the trigger on a Domane+ vs a Specialized Creo 2 (I have the original Creo 1, which has been magnificent, but I"d like more power and a quieter motor).
I think a noise like that might make crazy.
AntonioAlfaro
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Jack, to be honest with you, I've been very satisfied with the performance of the 2023 Domane+ SLR. It's the ideal road e-bike. Regarding the grinding noise and based on TQ's response, it reassures me a bit, and for now, I'll try to avoid the pedaling and assistance conditions that trigger it. But without a doubt, I will file the corresponding complaint with TREK since the bike is still under warranty.
The noise isn't constant or excessive. It's more concerning that something internally might be getting damaged. But according to TQ, it's not the case. What also stands out is that some users report that the issue was resolved after TREK replaced their motor with a new one.
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