2023 Trek Domane+

[AntonioAlfaro]

I am tricking the motor. I don't allow the assistance power to drop to low levels where the grinding noise occurs. I achieve this by quickly shifting to higher gears so that my legs are always delivering power. Also, on easy segments of the route, I turn off the motor.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I remember watching a video of a guy who purchased an early release of this motor on a mountain bike, who experienced grinding noises on his TQ motor. I chalked it up to an early production problem and haven't heard anything concerning grinding noises since.

 

[AntonioAlfaro]

They have probably managed to mitigate that noise quite a bit, but it's still there and can occur under certain pedaling conditions. For now, I tend to think it's something intrinsic to the TQ motor and that one can learn to avoid the conditions that trigger it. Apart from that, I still love my 2023 Domane+ SL

 

[AntonioAlfaro]

For those who like real data, I conducted a test on the Domane+ SLR 2023 until the battery was completely depleted. Two purposes; 1) To determine at what battery percentage the assistance disconnects, 2) To determine the total battery capacity in Wh. During the test, I thought I would be notified in some way when the battery reached 15% remaining, but that didn't happen. The system continued to work normally regardless of the level of assistance used, and I reached 5% remaining without any issues. However, just as I passed to 4% remaining battery, the assistance cut off. The e-bike started to function like a regular bicycle. The display showed 0% battery. This is an important piece of information to consider when planning a new ride and wanting to avoid surprises. So, remember the magic number: 5%. Back at home, I started charging the battery until it was back to 100%, and the energy required for that was 335 Wh. This data is equally important in planning new routes, as it represents the actual maximum available capacity (not 360Wh as we might be tempted to think). I hope this modest measurement is useful to you. Regards.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So, remember the magic number: 5%.

Often found on good e-bike systems as the cut-off there helps protecting the battery.

the energy required for that was 335 Wh. This data is equally important in planning new routes, as it represents the actual maximum available capacity (not 360Wh as we might be tempted to think). I hope this modest measurement is useful to you.

That's why the maximum effective charge of a new Specialized SL battery is 304 Wh instead of the rated 320.

 

[rdv]

Coincidentally I exhausted the battery on a 54 mile ride today, from a starting charge of 92%. Only 2150feet of vertical gain, but significant chunks of the ride were takenat aggressive speeds with liberal use of Eco, and occasional use of Mid where I would usually be in Eco.

Oddly enough I set off without the Karoo 2, which reliably reports the % charge remaining throughout my rides. Today I would occasionally check for it on the TQ display.

With a handful of miles to go it reported 15% remaining, which I figured sufficient to get me back, but I was surprised to have it cut out and show 0% in the last mile. It might have dropped out at the 5% you experienced, but don't have specific evidence.

Some months back I purposely ran it to0% and vaguely recall that it did so gradually 5,4,3,2,1,0, but I could be mis-remembering.

Definitely something to monitor in the future (with the Karoo).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It might have dropped out at the 5% you experienced, but don't have specific evidence.

For sure. It is the same on Specialized SL e-bikes as the battery protection measure.

 

[AntonioAlfaro]

"Thank you, Rob, for your observations. I must say that before conducting this test, I was searching for information on the web, and the only thing I managed to find was an FAQ document from Trek, which is on the Domane+SLR 2023 page in the Service section. In that document, there is a very interesting answer that says: "
Are there any other special instructions for the battery?
Please note that the battery will only last to about 15% capacity the first time it is depleted. So
don’t be alarmed if the range on your first ride is a little shorter than expected. After the first
full depletion and subsequent charging, the battery management system will “learn” what it
needs to know and will deplete all the way to 0% on future rides.
Also note that any time the battery reaches less than 10% charge, the motor output will be
reduced to 110 watts. The battery level indicator will flash to indicate Low Battery mode.
".
It seems that in the first deep discharge, the system cuts off before reaching 0%, but in subsequent deep discharges, the system reaches 0%. This aligns with what you report having observed.

 

[mtnroads]

Great info - thanks to all, especially Antonio, for all the testing and reporting. I have never experienced the grinding, probably because I rarely do "catchup" pedaling - it seems I am either on or off, haha. BTW, I have been easing back into riding the bike again after going through PT for my knee pain, and most significantly, finding out I need orthotics to support my feet, which over-pronate (collapsing inward, and stressing the medial meniscus). This apparently was not a problem with narrow Q-factor road bikes, but the slightly added width of the Domane+ exacerbated the situation, especially on the left which is the foot that is the worst..

I have to say I am very happy about this turn of events, as I do love this bike. It is so solid-feeling, and rides well, even without the assist turned on (I sometimes forget, haha).

 

[AntonioAlfaro]

Great info - thanks to all, especially Antonio, for all the testing and reporting. I have never experienced the grinding, probably because I rarely do "catchup" pedaling - it seems I am either on or off, haha. BTW, I have been easing back into riding the bike again after going through PT for my knee pain, and most significantly, finding out I need orthotics to support my feet, which over-pronate (collapsing inward, and stressing the medial meniscus). This apparently was not a problem with narrow Q-factor road bikes, but the slightly added width of the Domane+ exacerbated the situation, especially on the left which is the foot that is the worst..

I have to say I am very happy about this turn of events, as I do love this bike. It is so solid-feeling, and rides well, even without the assist turned on (I sometimes forget, haha).

I'm glad to know that on one hand, you found the cause of your discomfort, and on the other, that it's a cause that can be appropriately corrected. Without a doubt, getting back on the bike is priceless. Take it easy!

 

[AntonioAlfaro]

Full Discharge, Second Test: As you may recall, the purpose of the first discharge test was to verify the discharge percentage at which the TQ system would cut off during the first deep discharge. The cutoff was confirmed at 5%. Today, in the second deep discharge test, we aim to determine the percentage of discharge at which the system cuts off (TQ says ....the battery management system will “learn” what it needs to know and will deplete all the way to 0% on future rides). This second test confirms that the system cuts off when reaching 0% discharge, thus aligning with the manufacturer's specifications. With this verified data, you can now plan your journeys with accurate final values. Regards.

 

[AvalancheRun]

Grinding Noise

What seemed perfect ceased to be so. My odometer has crossed the 1000 km mark, and in the last three rides, a terrifying noise started coming from the TQ50 motor of my 2023 Domane+ SLR. For a moment, I thought some mechanism inside the engine was being ground because it was an abnormal noise I had never heard before. After my initial terror subsided a bit and and thinking about my return home, I began to notice that this deafening noise occurred under certain circumstances, but most of the time or when the motor was in OFF mode, it did not happen. I found that the grinding noise was correlated with my cadence, the power from both me and the motor, and the rear gear ratio. The noise didn't occur when I was climbing a hill, applying power to the pedals. It happens when you're on a flat slope, stop pedaling for a moment, and then start rolling again. When you begin pedaling again, there seems to be a kind of desynchronization between the motor and the pedal axle, and the grinding noise appears. It's as if there are unsuccessful attempts to engage the motor with the transmission axle. During these moments, I observe that I'm delivering some power, I'm over-rotating, and the motor is delivering very little power (no more than about 10W). However, if I shift to a higher gear, reducing rotation and increasing the power delivered by the motor, the noise disappears completely. As long as the motor is delivering enough power (more than 30W, I'd say), the dreadful grinding noise doesn't occur.

Is this an intrinsic characteristic of the TQ50 motor? Is it a design flaw? Is it a software issue with motor control? Is it normal and should one simply avoid the conditions in which it occurs?

I'd like to know if anyone in this forum is experiencing the same noise.

Did they ever fix this for you?

 

[AntonioAlfaro]

Did they ever fix this for you?

Hi AvalancheRun, let me paste parcial answer that I wrote in other forum.:
"" As of today, I have completed 46 rides on the Trek Domane+ SLR, covering a total of 2400 km, approximately 118 hours. Overall, I haven't had any significant issues to climb. I only recall noticing a grinding noise a few months ago, but after updating the firmware, making some minor adjustments to my settings, and understanding the reason for the grinding noise, I can now say it is easily manageable.""
While it is true that with the latest updates released by TQ, the grinding noise improves significantly, it must be clear that this is intrinsic to the engagement and disengagement system of the assistance. The system disengages around 30W more or less, so around this point there is a kind of hysteresis that needs to be quickly overcome to avoid the grinding noise. This can be achieved by delivering more power (cyclist) to the system, which may involve using a stronger gear. The idea is to learn to overcome the hysteresis point, which from another perspective is an indication that we have exhausted the gear and it is time to change gears

 

[rdv]

Antonio, glad to see you are staying involved.

Wondering what TQ update you are alluding to. I'm not aware of any substantive firmware update since January 2023. With another year's experience and more bikes in use, I thought one would have come at around this time, with some beneficial tweaks, not the least of which would be to allow the cyclist to understand what's on the ebike besides a series of numbers. I've been campaigning for an increase maximum assist from 200 to 300% to help riders with limited power (~100W) to tap into the (unchanged) motor's 300W max output. That is not to say that tweaks aimed at even better motor performance wouldn't be welcome and widely appreciated.

 

[AntonioAlfaro]

Antonio, glad to see you are staying involved.

Wondering what TQ update you are alluding to. I'm not aware of any substantive firmware update since January 2023. With another year's experience and more bikes in use, I thought one would have come at around this time, with some beneficial tweaks, not the least of which would be to allow the cyclist to understand what's on the ebike besides a series of numbers. I've been campaigning for an increase maximum assist from 200 to 300% to help riders with limited power (~100W) to tap into the (unchanged) motor's 300W max output. That is not to say that tweaks aimed at even better motor performance wouldn't be welcome and widely appreciated.

Hi Robert . Substantive firmware updates are announced for these days.

 

[rdv]

Just received a TQ notification that an HPR50 firmware update is available.

In typical TQ style, it is a terse note with only hints as to what is being improved. Looking for Trek, established reviewers, or senior members of this forum to elaborate in the near future.

I turned up an earlier notice at :

Fuel EXe - New hpr 50 firmware - ammersee

Just received an email from tq about a new firmware for the hpr 50 system, see below

www.emtbforums.com

This "Ammersee" update seems to amount to little more than some tweaks, focused on the user app convenience rather than on motor performance improvement. Hope there's more to it than that.

 

[jlubeck]

Very interesting observation about battery capacity and colder temps. I am coming from a Specialized Creo and never tracked battery range as vigilantly as I had with the Domane +, partly because the battery consumption with the Domane is closer to the range where I need to be concerned about emptying it on a long ride as I will be more dependent on higher levels of assist later in the ride. I received the bike in December and in cold weather riding on my 30%/72W default ECO setting, I probably got about 1.1 miles/1%. We have a warming spelling on the East Coast USA and my last 2 rides have been above 60F, and range has dramatically increased to about 1.4 miles/1% which is more comforting. Although I was aware that colder temps reduce the efficient of lithium ion batteries (EV owner also), I did not expect the effect to be as dramatic.