Throttle or No Throttle?

[Kurt in CT]

Hey guys. In my effort to get my first-ebike-purchase correct, I'm putting this topic out there for comment: Throttle or no throttle??
I know it's subjective, depends on who you are, how you will use the bike, and essentially not necessary. But if I'm going to spend all this money on a new bike, I'm thinking why not have it for those occasional times when I want a little boost, or just want to have a brief break or a little fun? It would be great to hear from those of you WITH throttles to advise on whether you use it much, or care about the fact that you have it. Another words if you DIDN'T have it, would it matter to you? If I hear that most of you don't even use it, that will greatly effect my purchase.

I'm also aware of the New York City issue with throttles and abuse. And also the occasional objection of throttles on trails. Do you think this issue is relevant enough to dictate whether people should buy new bikes with throttles? I'm in the Northeast, and I'd be really surprised if anyone outside of NYC even knew enough about ebikes to identify whether a throttle was on a bike. But maybe I'm wrong.
Thanks!




Sent from my iPad

 

[bob armani]

Hey guys. In my effort to get my first-ebike-purchase correct, I'm putting this topic out there for comment: Throttle or no throttle??
I know it's subjective, depends on who you are, how you will use the bike, and essentially not necessary. But if I'm going to spend all this money on a new bike, I'm thinking why not have it for those occasional times when I want a little boost, or just want to have a brief break or a little fun? It would be great to hear from those of you WITH throttles to advise on whether you use it much, or care about the fact that you have it. Another words if you DIDN'T have it, would it matter to you? If I hear that most of you don't even use it, that will greatly effect my purchase.

I'm also aware of the New York City issue with throttles and abuse. And also the occasional objection of throttles on trails. Do you think this issue is relevant enough to dictate whether people should buy new bikes with throttles? I'm in the Northeast, and I'd be really surprised if anyone outside of NYC even knew enough about ebikes to identify whether a throttle was on a bike. But maybe I'm wrong.
Thanks!




Sent from my iPad

Kurt-I had the same mindset before purchase as you have now. I found a bike with a throttle and NEVER use it. I thought it would come in handy, but have not found the need for it. However, one thing to keep in mind is if you have a broken chain beyond repair on a rear hub motor driven ebike, that will save the day and get you moving. Nice peace of mind on that note.

 

[Kurt in CT]

Kurt-I had the same mindset before purchase as you have now. I found a bike with a throttle and NEVER use it. I thought it would come in handy, but have not found the need for it. However, one thing to keep in mind is if you have a broken chain beyond repair on a rear hub motor driven ebike, that will save the day and get you moving. Nice peace of mind on that note.

Thanks Bob. Appreciated.

 

[J.R.]

@Kurt in CT

I also have a bike that has a throttle mode and I never use the throttle. It's a BH Easy Motion Evo 29er with torque sensing pedal assist.

If you buy a bike with only cadence sensing PAS, you might want or need a throttle due to the delay of assist. You need to turn the cranks to get the assist to kick in. If you buy a bike with torque sensing PAS, you likely won't need a throttle. Assist is almost instantaneous as soon as you put any pressure on the pedal. If you are at a stop and hit the assist button a couple of times to turn up the assist, the bike will race through the intersection with any pressure on the pedal. You won't get more assist with throttle. Same when rolling; turn up assist and the bike will hit top speed with very little help from your leg power.

I use the lowest PAS settings, probably 90+% of the time for range. Once in awhile, while riding alone I'll turn it up and enjoy the easy ride. To me it's not a question of throttle or no throttle, it's a question of cadence sensing or torque sensing. After 3-1/2 years of riding my 2 ebikes and other's bikes, I'll never buy a cadence sensing bike and I don't need throttle.

The throttle issue has been discussed here more than any other single issue. Search for: "throttle". You can read for hours.

 

[vincent]

i like having a throttle
but jr makes some good points

i just got a new haibike but weather and work have kept me from any riding on it yet

it is the yamaha
i rode a similar bike to this one in madison at crazy lennys last year and do not think i could scoot across the intersections as quickly with it as i do with my rad rover using throttle...

that being said i probably was not using the gearing right, and may have not turned it up to max power every time

a more advanced, stronger bike rider would probably do much better on that

i have an easy motion street with the throttle that you can only use when it is turned down to 0 on the pas, dont like this set up like i do the rad bike where throttle overrides in any setting
and dont use throttle much if ever on it, too much hassle and defeats the purpose of the throttle to me

actually think that my mileage per battery is better on the cadence sensing bikes i have than my torque sensors because they are programmed to cut power at a certain speed and then i am pedalling without power
i get really good mileage out of my radrover

but we will see how things go over the next few months riding the haibike some

 

[JoePah]

I think you get used to what you have. However I’ve owned throtte only bikes and PAS and throttle bikes.

PAS wins hands down. the range is much better for the same battery, and you can reach higher speeds, like 28 mph with PAS bikes.

 

[vincent]

good point joepah

agree- if the option was throttle only or pas i would do pas

all my bikes are pas with throttle override except the easy motion street
and the prodeco mariner which is throttle only

to me pas with throttle override is the best combo whether it is torque sensor or cadence



to answer a couple of other questions you asked

for me i use my throttles a lot on all the bikes except on the easy motion street where it has to be turned down to 0 pas before you can use it - the only time that would be handy is if there was a mechanical malfunction on the easy motion like the chain broke and i needed to get back home, other than that too much hassle to use throttle on this particular bike


no one has ever commented on the throttles on my bikes, agree most people wont be able to tell the difference, that may change in the next few years if more ebikes are out there...

my bikes are mostly fat bikes and most people just notice the tires and not even that they are electric

i am like you it is better to have throttle and not need it than not have it

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Throttles are fairly common on hub drive systems, and fairly rare on mid-drive bikes. So to me this becomes part of the great mid-drive vs hub-drive controversy.

About the only time I use the throttle is when I am trying to get the bike started when I didn't shift into a low gear before I stopped.

 

[rich c]

Really depends on how you ride, or want to ride. Want to use it like a scooter, get a throttle. Want the experience of a traditional bike, don't get a throttle. If you get a throttle, you may be banned from some multi use paths. Proper shifting techniques negates the need for a throttle in my opinion. Top settings of assist are basically the same energy sent to the motor as a throttle wide open.

 

[ChrisKoz]

I installed a mid drive kit that came with a throttle. I haven't installed it and have not found a need to use one. Good luck

 

[Tora Harris]

This is a ongoing debate, but I think the thing is to have the choice, you can always pull the throttle off if you don’t like it. For example our bikes have a 1-3 cable to put it in the non-throttle configuration (Europe) and a 1-4 cable for the throttle operation (USA, Canada)

Aside from using the bike like a scooter, which some people do because of physical issues, the throttle is very useful in a few situations:

1. Getting going from a stop


Getting going from a stop when you are in the wrong gear which happens quite frequently due to the design of the derailleur and the high speed gradients that the modern e-bike is capable of. Let’s say you are going 28 mph and need to stop at a light or stop sign, more than likely you are in 8-9th gear.

In that situation, you have like 10 seconds to go from 28 to 0 mph. During that time you have to do several things. One is to use the brakes to slow down. Usually this means you stop pedaling while the bike is decelerating to a stop. In this case you will be stuck in the high gear because you must actually turn the pedals to change gears which you most likely are not because you are trying to slow down.

When it is time to go again, it will be very difficult to turn the crank in a high gear to get going. The way a bicycle works is you have to be moving to actually be stable enough to cycle the bike otherwise one leg is needed to touch the ground to keep from tipping over.

Adding to the problem is the sequential nature of the the derailleur’s mechanics. Unlike a internally geared hub where you can jump right to the gear you want, with the derailleur, you must stop at every gear on your way to your desired gear.

Making the problem even worse…during the time when you are actually shifting and the chain is jumping across the cassette, you cannot really put too much pressure on the crank, which is conflicting with the fact that you must put pressure on the crank to get going.

The problem is exacerbated if the bike is cadence-assist only. This is because in the high gear, it’s difficult to move the crank through enough degrees to actually trigger the cadence sensor. The more modern torque sensor setups can react to pressure and cadence so you have a better chance that the motor will kick in sooner.

In this situation, the throttle is very handy. It gets you going enough where you can stabilize and zippy enough that you can just keep in the higher gears while the bike picks up speed. It saves you from having to click all the way down to a lower gear for that brief moment only to click back up as the e-bike can pick up speed quite rapidly.

2. Throttling through turns
When you are riding through big sweeping turns such as turning through intersections. When turning, the bike’s velocity is decelerating so to maintain the same speed, you need to add some power.

Due to the design of the bicycle, it may be difficult to pedal in the turns. This is due to pedal strike when leaned over in a turn.

Also when you are leaned over in the turn, the bike is in a somewhat unstable position with limited traction. The oscillations caused by pedaling can disturb the balance of the bike and this can be a little bit dangerous.

In this situation you can use the throttle to help you maintain the speed in the corners until you can upright the bike and start cranking on the pedals again.


3. City Riding
The throttle is handy when you are doing many changes in speed such as in the city where there are other cars, cyclist and pedestrians. The throttle is good for keeping a steady speed while you are not turning the pedals. When the obstacle is cleared you can jump back on the pedals and speed off with the pedal assist.

4. Riding the bike partially dismounted
Sometimes you need to ride the bike while dismounted from the saddle, but with one foot on the pedal on one side of the bike. This puts you in a position where you can quickly jump off the bike. However you can’t really turn the crank when in this position. Here you can use the throttle to ride the bike like a electric kick scooter.

This is handy for moving the bike around indoors, looking for parking spots, riding where you are technically not allowed to ride a bicycle and when the authorities give you a disapproving look, you can very quickly jump off the bike and claim that you were not actually riding the bike but rather pushing the bike around. This is in theory and we cannot recommend doing this.

 

[Kurt in CT]

@Kurt in CT

I also have a bike that has a throttle mode and I never use the throttle. It's a BH Easy Motion Evo 29er with torque sensing pedal assist.

If you buy a bike with only cadence sensing PAS, you might want or need a throttle due to the delay of assist. You need to turn the cranks to get the assist to kick in. If you buy a bike with torque sensing PAS, you likely won't need a throttle. Assist is almost instantaneous as soon as you put any pressure on the pedal. If you are at a stop and hit the assist button a couple of times to turn up the assist, the bike will race through the intersection with any pressure on the pedal. You won't get more assist with throttle. Same when rolling; turn up assist and the bike will hit top speed with very little help from your leg power.

I use the lowest PAS settings, probably 90+% of the time for range. Once in awhile, while riding alone I'll turn it up and enjoy the easy ride. To me it's not a question of throttle or no throttle, it's a question of cadence sensing or torque sensing. After 3-1/2 years of riding my 2 ebikes and other's bikes, I'll never buy a cadence sensing bike and I don't need throttle.

The throttle issue has been discussed here more than any other single issue. Search for: "throttle". You can read for hours.

Thanks JR. I actually did do a search earlier and was not coming up with much, that's why I posted. Maybe I didn't go deep enough.

 

[Kurt in CT]

This is a ongoing debate, but I think the thing is to have the choice, you can always pull the throttle off if you don’t like it. For example our bikes have a 1-3 cable to put it in the non-throttle configuration (Europe) and a 1-4 cable for the throttle operation (USA, Canada)

Aside from using the bike like a scooter, which some people do because of physical issues, the throttle is very useful in a few situations:

1. Getting going from a stop


Getting going from a stop when you are in the wrong gear which happens quite frequently due to the design of the derailleur and the high speed gradients that the modern e-bike is capable of. Let’s say you are going 28 mph and need to stop at a light or stop sign, more than likely you are in 8-9th gear.

In that situation, you have like 10 seconds to go from 28 to 0 mph. During that time you have to do several things. One is to use the brakes to slow down. Usually this means you stop pedaling while the bike is decelerating to a stop. In this case you will be stuck in the high gear because you must actually turn the pedals to change gears which you most likely are not because you are trying to slow down.

When it is time to go again, it will be very difficult to turn the crank in a high gear to get going. The way a bicycle works is you have to be moving to actually be stable enough to cycle the bike otherwise one leg is needed to touch the ground to keep from tipping over.

Adding to the problem is the sequential nature of the the derailleur’s mechanics. Unlike a internally geared hub where you can jump right to the gear you want, with the derailleur, you must stop at every gear on your way to your desired gear.

Making the problem even worse…during the time when you are actually shifting and the chain is jumping across the cassette, you cannot really put too much pressure on the crank, which is conflicting with the fact that you must put pressure on the crank to get going.

The problem is exacerbated if the bike is cadence-assist only. This is because in the high gear, it’s difficult to move the crank through enough degrees to actually trigger the cadence sensor. The more modern torque sensor setups can react to pressure and cadence so you have a better chance that the motor will kick in sooner.

In this situation, the throttle is very handy. It gets you going enough where you can stabilize and zippy enough that you can just keep in the higher gears while the bike picks up speed. It saves you from having to click all the way down to a lower gear for that brief moment only to click back up as the e-bike can pick up speed quite rapidly.

2. Throttling through turns
When you are riding through big sweeping turns such as turning through intersections. When turning, the bike’s velocity is decelerating so to maintain the same speed, you need to add some power.

Due to the design of the bicycle, it may be difficult to pedal in the turns. This is due to pedal strike when leaned over in a turn.

Also when you are leaned over in the turn, the bike is in a somewhat unstable position with limited traction. The oscillations caused by pedaling can disturb the balance of the bike and this can be a little bit dangerous.

In this situation you can use the throttle to help you maintain the speed in the corners until you can upright the bike and start cranking on the pedals again.


3. City Riding
The throttle is handy when you are doing many changes in speed such as in the city where there are other cars, cyclist and pedestrians. The throttle is good for keeping a steady speed while you are not turning the pedals. When the obstacle is cleared you can jump back on the pedals and speed off with the pedal assist.

4. Riding the bike partially dismounted
Sometimes you need to ride the bike while dismounted from the saddle, but with one foot on the pedal on one side of the bike. This puts you in a position where you can quickly jump off the bike. However you can’t really turn the crank when in this position. Here you can use the throttle to ride the bike like a electric kick scooter.

This is handy for moving the bike around indoors, looking for parking spots, riding where you are technically not allowed to ride a bicycle and when the authorities give you a disapproving look, you can very quickly jump off the bike and claim that you were not actually riding the bike but rather pushing the bike around. This is in theory and we cannot recommend doing this.

Thank you Tora. Great information!

 

[Al P]

Both of my bikes have cadence sensors and I use the throttles for hills and starting from a standstill all the time. I find it easier than raising and lowering the PAS. For the few extra $$, it is there if you need it.

 

[Reid]

Seconding AI P! And to Tora, thanks for a great in-depth and super logical exposition.

Well, as Tora knows, because I wrote about it at the Juiced Bikes panel here, I removed my CCS bike's thumb throttle in part because I don't need a throttle and in part to allow use of a very short, straight handlebar.

Later I realized the throttle IS useful, as AI P noted and as Tora said.

So, I made a boost button handy to reach. Basically, a pair of resistors in series tapped at their juncture and a very small momentary contact pushbutton. All-on or off, really useful for faster standing starts when I have forgotten to downshift before stopping.
(Toggle switch in background is unrelated: an always hot headlight switch)

 

[TForan]

With the Bafang Ultra power, so far, I have no use for the throttle.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

My wife and I have two different brands of ebike, Pedego and Juiced. Both have throttles. We use PAS 90-95% of the time. The throttle comes in handy, like Tora said, on several occasions. One is starting from a stop. It's not just the high gear issue, which Tora explained so well. Even if you had time and shifted down into a lower gear, when crossing a busy intersection you want to get moving quickly. The throttle accomplishes this. On the Juiced Bike, throttle plus pedal assist gives a boost of 1000 watts of power and you can really get moving. Making long sweeping turns is another time I use the throttle, so I don't hit the pavement with my pedals. Tora mentioned this one also, and it is not just theoretical. I do this frequently. Third, there are times when riding together when one or the other of us gets ahead. It is easier and quicker to catch up by goosing the throttle than by pedaling faster/harder, although both of us use the pedal method at times also. Fourth, sometimes you just want to take a break on longer trips. Fifth, sometimes you want to be not the least bit sweaty when you arrive somewhere, and the throttle accomplishes that better than even the higher levels of pedal assist. Finally, what the hell, it's just fun sometimes to ride along at 20 mph with no effort! Believe me, if you have it and don't use it, then no harm done, but if you don't have it, you will never know how useful and enjoyable a throttle can be.

 

[Joe EE]

I like using my throttle now and again but I love to pedal. Currently working on a DIY project and was encouraged to build a throttle only bike elsewhere... and I won’t do it. The pedaling is fun when it’s assisted. I also wouldn’t do pedal assist only. Why not have it all and let your mood for the day, or the moment decide? My 2 cents.

 

[christob]

Besides the New York situation, is it likely that throttle ebikes may gradually face more legislation barring them from dedicated bike paths and trails? I sort of got that impression while doing some initial research on ebikes, ebike laws, etc., as well as when I started down the path of inquiry with my vehicle and home insurance companies. In the end I went throttle-less, partly out of potentially restrictive legislation (that may or may not come one day), and also because I need my ebike to make me exercise at least a bit I have a lazy streak, and having rented a throttle bike years ago to cross the Golden Gate Bridge and back, I'm a bit fearful that I'd simply fall back on cruising with throttle far too often!

 

[Kurt in CT]

My wife and I have two different brands of ebike, Pedego and Juiced. Both have throttles. We use PAS 90-95% of the time. The throttle comes in handy, like Tora said, on several occasions. One is starting from a stop. It's not just the high gear issue, which Tora explained so well. Even if you had time and shifted down into a lower gear, when crossing a busy intersection you want to get moving quickly. The throttle accomplishes this. On the Juiced Bike, throttle plus pedal assist gives a boost of 1000 watts of power and you can really get moving. Making long sweeping turns is another time I use the throttle, so I don't hit the pavement with my pedals. Tora mentioned this one also, and it is not just theoretical. I do this frequently. Third, there are times when riding together when one or the other of us gets ahead. It is easier and quicker to catch up by goosing the throttle than by pedaling faster/harder, although both of us use the pedal method at times also. Fourth, sometimes you just want to take a break on longer trips. Fifth, sometimes you want to be not the least bit sweaty when you arrive somewhere, and the throttle accomplishes that better than even the higher levels of pedal assist. Finally, what the hell, it's just fun sometimes to ride along at 20 mph with no effort! Believe me, if you have it and don't use it, then no harm done, but if you don't have it, you will never know how useful and enjoyable a throttle can be.

Bruce, really appreciate this explanation. Resonates with me and helped my buying decision.