tale of a Charger GX Rohloff...

[Mr. Coffee]

Well, 107 days after ordering it I finally got it.

I'll first off give a big shoutout to Davie and Tyler at G&O Family Cyclery, who were very supportive and helpful in finally getting me my bike.

Anyway, my first impressions of the bike were riding about a quarter mile from their shop to where I parked my car. The first impression was that the riding position was quite a bit more forward and less upright than the Pedego Interceptor. The second impression was that the seat was about as comfortable as an axe head. A buttaxe.

There were a few minutes of high drama at my rig getting the through axle off so I could fit it in the back. I've never seen a Suntour through axle before and there is a bit of a trick to it. Also, the through axle is greasy and you need to put it someplace where it won't get things greasy and the grease won't get contaminated.

About halfway home I stopped at the Whitehorse trail and took the bike out for a longer spin. I'd packed padded bike shorts for just such an eventuality so that made the buttaxe a bit more tolerable. The bike is smooth and nimble and goes where its pointed. The Charger with the dual batteries mounted is quite a bit lighter than my Pedego Interceptor without the battery. In particular the wheels were much lighter and this made the bike devour the trail. After a quick stop (well really not so quick) for a double cheeseburger at Ed's Burger Barn I was back on the road for another 2 1/2 hours.

Finally I got home, fed the dogs, and got the bike out of the rig for another longer look. First thing was to do something about the buttaxe. I had some proofide (the treatment that comes with the brooks saddle) and some neatsfoot oil. I used the proofide on the top of the saddle, and used the neatsfoot oil on the bottom, which I derived as a decent way to soften up the saddle so it could break in and not be a torture device. That evening I also pulled up a youtube video on how to properly use the Suntour through axle.

First thing this morning I took the bike out for a good shakedown. The saddle treatments had softened up the seat quite a bit and it was much more comfortable. I can see my way to liking this saddle, I think. One of the downsides was with the very long day yesterday and me eating only a bowl of cereal, that double cheeseburger, three cups of coffee and two cokes I was feeling pretty awful and wasn't looking forward to the long climb up my road. I shouldn't have worried -- in Turbo mode with the Rohloff hub it was a relatively effortless if battery-sucking fifteen minutes and I was back home.

Like I said, the bike feels nimble and agile, kind of like a two-wheeled mountain goat.

This afternoon I spent some time trying to figure out how to put the doggie basket on the bike. My suspicion is that is going to be an engineering project that will involve cable ties and voiding the warranty. So I figure that is better left for another day.

Another engineering project is making a decent loop to clip the Swift panniers to, which also involved cable ties. I'm going to hit the hardware store tomorrow for some heavy-duty ones.

I'm suspecting I'll want to put some risers on the handlebars to get a bit more upright stance.

As for the touch points, I'd say the pedals are awesome, the handlebar grips are kind of meh, and the saddle is to be defined.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Oh, after a discussion with Tyler I had the chain guide removed. I had a concern that it was going to be a pain to properly lubricate and clean the chain with it in place, and any benefit gained by protecting the chain would be lost because it (the chain guide) would quickly fill with very fine dirt.

 

[PowerMe]

Terrific picture! What pannier bag are you using?

I see you have a Brooks seat on that bike -- did it come with that seat? I have a Brooks B17-S (women's version of B17) and even after 300 mi it never got comfortable to where I could ride with it beyond about 8 mi.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Panniers are by Swift Industries. The exact color scheme is no longer available but the Cascade Roll Top Pannier is otherwise identical. You can also order them in custom colors. Yes, they are expensive, but they are beautifully hand-made and of very high quality construction.

On the Brooks saddle, yes, it comes with the bike. I'm honestly not so sure it is a good fit for the bike and my activity set (I have a hard time imagining bike-skiing or bike fishing in padded bike shorts). After I treated the saddle with neatsfoot oil it softened up nicely. How did you break in the B-17-S?

Sheldon Brown's site has a good article on breaking in Brooks Leather Saddles and the various pitfalls you might suffer along the way.

 

[Diarmuid]

Ha, I was there in the shop right after they built your bike on Tuesday and I got to touch it too. I had no idea it was yours.

 

[Over50]

...Sheldon Brown's site has a good article on breaking in Brooks Leather Saddles and the various pitfalls you might suffer along the way...

Thanks for the Brown link (and the pannier link). Very useful info. This might be a really dumb question but I've never seen a Brooks leather saddle (but might soon get one): is the leather removable to adjust for stretch and to apply the treatment? Or, as I was assuming, you apply the treatments as-is leather on saddle?

I edited original to ask about the panniers: those are nice! any special adjustments or adaptors required to fit the Racktime rack? Its a good fit and not a lot of rattling?

 

[Over50]

Sorry to hit you with a million questions but: I was trying to come up with a use for that front rack other than carrying a bedroll. Do you think a bag like this from your Swift Industries link might be attachable and would ride on that rack firmly?

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[J.R.]

Thanks for the Brown link (and the pannier link). Very useful info. This might be a really dumb question but I've never seen a Brooks leather saddle (but might soon get one): is the leather removable to adjust for stretch and to apply the treatment? Or, as I was assuming, you apply the treatments as-is leather on saddle?

It's just one piece of leather stretched on a frame that's adjustable. Comes with a wrench to make micro adjustments over time. You want it to sag more, let it sag. Tighter, firmer - tighten it. I guess I made more adjustments when new and now 3+ years (~9 to 10,000 mi +/-) on I might need 1 or 2 a year, I think. If you like a split saddle to keep pressure off your perineum, get an Imperial Brooks, I use an Imperial. Really easy to to apply leather treatments. I think my B17 will last the rest of my life.

 

[PowerMe]

How did you break in the B-17-S?

Sheldon Brown's site has a good article on breaking in Brooks Leather Saddles and the various pitfalls you might suffer along the way.

I of course used the proofride and some mink oil, I road 5 mi here and there with no padded shorts, trying to get my sit bones to make their mark. I did 3 or 4 treatments where you plunge the seat into a bucket of warm/hot water for a few minutes, then moisturize the leather again and then ride the saddle again. Nothing else but riding and riding. But the thing is, like I said above, the saddle is just not comfortable for *me* on a ride longer than about 8mi, 10 absolute maximum. People who say they can spend hours in their Brooks saddles must be made of tougher stuff. My butt and all other parts just don't want to be in a saddle (any saddle) for more than an hour, and maybe 40 min with this one.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

On the saddle, I found it easiest to take it off the bike, seat post and all, to apply the treatments to the underside of the saddle (which basically involved taping the holes and pouring neatsfoot oil into the saddle and wiping away the excess). I've now done that twice and probably won't need to do it again. Since I live in such a dry environment I'll probably need to treat the saddle more often and during the winter when I store the bike it might make sense to wrap the seat in plastic to keep it from drying out.

J.R. You are the first person I've spoken to who has had good results tightening that screw. The folks I've talked with have all said that when the leather really starts to break down you'll need a new saddle. There is also some evidence that older saddles had better leather and a much longer lifespan than newer saddles.

Everyone is shaped different and a lot of people need to go through a pretty frustrating process to find a saddle that works well for them. It is astounding to me that nobody in their right mind would spend $100 on a pair of shoes without trying them on first, but people do that all the time with bike saddles.

In a saner world I'd imagine that high-end bicycles like this Charger would be sold without pedals, a saddle, or grips. And you'd work with the dealer on fitting the bike out for your body. I'd gladly pay another $200 for somebody to actually help me fit my bike, and I know a lot of the peanut gallery here would scream bloody murder about that, but it might well make the difference between someone riding 300 miles a year and someone riding 6000 miles a year. Which makes that initial investment quite reasonable.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Sorry to hit you with a million questions but: I was trying to come up with a use for that front rack other than carrying a bedroll. Do you think a bag like this from your Swift Industries link might be attachable and would ride on that rack firmly?

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

...

I edited original to ask about the panniers: those are nice! any special adjustments or adaptors required to fit the Racktime rack? Its a good fit and not a lot of rattling?

For the panniers, I put electrical tape on the rack bars to remind me where to park the panniers to avoid heel strike and also to keep the rack from getting scratched. There isn't a good place for the bottom hook on the bungee cord so I made a loop with heavy-duty cable ties for the bottom hook. So far they are on very tight and don't rattle around at all.

That bag should work fine on the rack. If you can loop the attachment straps around more than one bar on the rack it should hold very nicely and not rattle around.

Honestly when I first saw the Charger my reaction was that I loved the bike but wasn't at all impressed with that front rack. I will say now that I have my hands on the bike my view has kind of softened. Even though R&M has a 3kg limit on the rack, it appears quite strong and I suspect that limit is more a concern about the bike's handling than the actual physical strength of the rack. I'm sure it would be fine to carry 7-8kg on that rack if you are careful. Having said that, a likely future project will be installing a nicer front rack.

 

[J.R.]

J.R. You are the first person I've spoken to who has had good results tightening that screw. The folks I've talked with have all said that when the leather really starts to break down you'll need a new saddle. There is also some evidence that older saddles had better leather and a much longer lifespan than newer saddles

I've not heard that from any friends riding Brooks. The only thing I'd suggest as a possible reason is a friend told me to get the Brooks weather proof cover and never allow the saddle to sit outdoors uncovered. I use it whenever the bike is racked, rain or shine.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

25 mile ride this morning. Since it rained overnight there was much less dust yet very little mud.

The big observation was that ride, including a 1000-foot climb at the end in Turbo mode, used around 20 percent of the battery! Except for the final climb most of the ride was in Tour or Eco.

I bought some bike gloves this morning and that helped make the grips and different riding position more comfortable.

The Charger has much lower rolling resistance than the Pedego. When I let the bike run free on downhills that I know well I found myself going about ten percent faster.

On the flats, though, the Pedego would definitely be faster. One other thing is that with the Pedego cadence sensor you could set a low pedal assist and pedal slowly in a low gear and the bike would push you along at 12-15 mph. With the Bosch CX you don't have that luxury.

I realized I have developed a bad habit of depending on a throttle to get the bike moving. It seems to me that if I were in city traffic a lot it would be better to have a bike with a throttle.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Fully loaded (well more-or-less fully loaded) ride today. 44 miles. Started with about 80 percent battery and ended with about 40 percent.

The panniers stay on and are quiet. The only issue and it is very minor is they tend to gradually drift forward over the course of the ride.

Only moment(s) of high drama were when the little nubbin that holds the abus lock in place popped off. Probably need to glue that sucker on.

 

[Over50]

... 44 miles. Started with about 80 percent battery and ended with about 40 percent...

Do you notice any handling differences due to having that 2nd battery mounted high? Or is it just not enough weight to have any impact? So sounds like with 1000 WH at 80% you were on track for a range of about 90 miles ...

 

[Over50]

...On the flats, though, the Pedego would definitely be faster. One other thing is that with the Pedego cadence sensor you could set a low pedal assist and pedal slowly in a low gear and the bike would push you along at 12-15 mph. With the Bosch CX you don't have that luxury...I realized I have developed a bad habit of depending on a throttle to get the bike moving. It seems to me that if I were in city traffic a lot it would be better to have a bike with a throttle.

On my Haibike with the CX I'll turn it up to Sport when I'm at a light with traffic. I usually beat the first cars off the line and it gets me through the intersection ahead of most of the traffic. I've never had the opportunity to compare to a bike with a throttle but for quick starts, the CX motor is spectacular (at least on my bike the Trekking 4.0).

 

[Over50]

After these initial rides, any early thoughts on the Rohloff?

 

[Alaskan]

Fully loaded (well more-or-less fully loaded) ride today. 44 miles. Started with about 80 percent battery and ended with about 40 percent.

The panniers stay on and are quiet. The only issue and it is very minor is they tend to gradually drift forward over the course of the ride.

Only moment(s) of high drama were when the little nubbin that holds the abus lock in place popped off. Probably need to glue that sucker on.

a tad of duct tape on the back side works wonders for that.

 

[Alaskan]

Congrats on a great looking bike. I am really interested in how the Rohloff shifts and also what kind of speed you can still pedal going down a slight hill before the cadence is too high and you spin out. I have the Brooks...after 300 plus miles and repeated proofhide treatments it is becoming an old friend. Still need the padded shorts but the suspension effect of the saddle really softens the ride. Getting the laces the right tension makes a big difference.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Do you notice any handling differences due to having that 2nd battery mounted high? Or is it just not enough weight to have any impact? So sounds like with 1000 WH at 80% you were on track for a range of about 90 miles ...

Not really. The bike is super stable and the top battery is still close to center of mass. I cannot overemphasize how stable and forgiving, even at high speeds, this bike is.

I'm guessing that in reasonable terrain and full batteries you could make 100 miles in Tour mode. Which is better than I expected and hoped for. Today for the last five miles I was riding into a headwind and lost patience and put it into emtb mode.

After these initial rides, any early thoughts on the Rohloff?

Congrats on a great looking bike. I am really interested in how the Rohloff shifts and also what kind of speed you can still pedal going down a slight hill before the cadence is too high and you spin out. I have the Brooks...after 300 plus miles and repeated proofhide treatments it is becoming an old friend. Still need the padded shorts but the suspension effect of the saddle really softens the ride. Getting the laces the right tension makes a big difference.

The Rohloff is awesome. The shift range is slightly greater than a road double or mountain double, and it is geared higher than a mountain double and lower than a road double. With reasonable cadence, you can go between around 4mph and around 26mph before you lose pedal engagement.

A nit-picky suggestion for R&M would be to have options for slightly lower gearing on the Rohloff for a pure trail bike and slightly higher gearing for a city commuter. Although while I think this is a fantastic touring, adventure, and all-mountain bike I am a little skeptical of it as a city bike.

My saddle is breaking in nicely as well. I had to retighten and tie off the laces and probably will need to do so again in a few days. I think what did the trick on break-in was neatsfoot oil on the underside of the saddle.