specialized creo 2

[gpburdell]

I’m in the same situation as you. I normally ride a size 56. My Bike Shop suggested that I go with a size 58 Creo 2 because the reach is only about 9 mm more than the 56, but the stack height is 31 mm taller. If needed, I can install a shorter stem to make up for the extra reach, but the added stack height will benefit me by reducing the amount I have to crane my neck.

The bottom line is that it may be helpful to actually compare frame geometry between the different size Creos as well as other competing ebike models like the Domane+ and Skitch. I determined that the Creo 2 has more relaxed geometry than these other models.

If the Creo 2 size 58 had a lot more reach to it, it would not be a contender for me.. But since the main geometry difference moving from a 56 to a 58 is a lot more stack height than reach, it seems to be a good way for me to go.

Don’t forget to factor in the wider handlebars (44cm vs 42cm), and 10 mm longer stem on the 58 versus 56. It’s also worth noting that the stem comes angled down, so you can easily flip it for more handlebar height. Some other differences in the two sizes are crank length, stand over height, and wheelbase. They might or might not be an issue, depends on what you’re already used to.

 

[mschwett]

Yeah, initially I was a bit taken aback by the suggestion to move to a 58. But the devil is in the details, and the geometry chart showed that it might be a good idea. I’ll let you know how it worked out after I take delivery of my bike in about a month.

if you're looking for a more upright ride, the creo 2 in 58 with a 10-20mm shorter stem should work nicely. the longer cranks will lower you a few mm, allowing the seat to be lower that much or maybe even a bit more, making the bars effectively even a little bit higher. you'll also scoot the seat forward quite a bit (73 degree seat tube angle and 30mm longer seat tube = 9mm further back at the clamp) making the reach even more reduced from the geometry specs. just make sure the seat goes low enough for your leg length, which ought not be a problem with the creo's sloping top tube.

 

[Amazer98]

if you're looking for a more upright ride, the creo 2 in 58 with a 10-20mm shorter stem should work nicely. the longer cranks will lower you a few mm, allowing the seat to be lower that much or maybe even a bit more, making the bars effectively even a little bit higher. you'll also scoot the seat forward quite a bit (73 degree seat tube angle and 30mm longer seat tube = 9mm further back at the clamp) making the reach even more reduced from the geometry specs. just make sure the seat goes low enough for your leg length, which ought not be a problem with the creo's sloping top tube.

Those are all good points that you mentioned, which I hadn't given any thought to. I’m not too worried about the 58 being too big for me, as the Bike Shop said they would order in a 56 if I felt the 58 was oversized. I’ll probably just have to swap the stem to something like a 90 mm, perhaps angled up at 17° or so.

 

[pete1967]

They really want to put me on a 56 Creo 2 (and I bought a 56 Diverge), but upon testing a 58 Diverge I felt more at home. 185 cm, with an 89.5 cm inseam. Geometry is ever so slightly different between the two.

I´m 180 cm with 86,5 cm inseam. My Expert was size 58. I felt too strechted out on the bike and couldn´t reach the brakes comfortably. On my Expert was a 110 mm stem (not 100 mm like in the spec). Swapped it out against one with 100 mm, but this was still too long. Last week I got my S-Works Creo 2. Now in size 56 (with a 100 mm stem). Much better! Made a blind order with the Expert in 58, because my Specialized MTBs are all S4. That was a wrong decision, obviously! You are 185 cm and with your inseam of 89,5 cm I would say you can ride both, with a tendency to the 58 frame.

 

[charleyt]

Great input, thanks! The geometry comparisons are interesting. SC puts me firmly on an XL Skitch, which is -28mm stack and +34mm reach from the 58 Creo 2.
58 just felt more relaxed, more upright, and less scrunched than my 56. As you said, 9mm reach is easy to change with a stem.

I'm 191cm and 89 inseam. Test rode the XL Skitch (really awesome bike with "progressive" geo) and got the 58 creo 2. I like to be more 'on' the bike than 'in' the bike. I've test ridden a 61 frame, not a creo, and it's ridiculously large. My ideal size is a 59. Had to lengthen the stem a bit on my creo and overall my position on the bike is quite comfortable. And maybe the most comfortable I've ever been on the hoods for extended time.

My partner got the 56 creo 2 and she's 177.cm. She didn't even need a stem swap. Her ideal size is a 57.

 

[charleyt]

More experience gained with the RE and bike charged to 150%. This weekend we went on another long ride. When the battery hit 19%, the very significant drop in assist started. I made it back with 18% and left the RE plugged into the bike overnight. In the morning turned on the bike and it said 4% battery remaining. I unplugged the RE and it still said 4%. I assume the RE continued to discharge at the end. So anyone using this system should plan on about 130-135% of battery being available for assistance. After that it's very minimal assistance and switching between the different modes feels like it does nothing to change the level of assistance.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So anyone using this system should plan on about 130-135% of battery being available for assistance. After that it's very minimal assistance and switching between the different modes feels like it does nothing to change the level of assistance.

I do totally agree. As I use a Wahoo ELEMNT for my SL e-bike, I am able to track each e-bike battery level independently.

I own as many as 4 Range Extenders and have been on multiple long rides with discharging the main and extender batteries in parallel or with the RE first. That gave me a great insight into the mechanics of the process. For instance (when you look at the level % only) it appears the main battery is discharging faster than the RE. In reality, the system just tries keeping the identical charge for both batteries. (This is for the parallel discharging). In case of discharging the RE first, the main battery kicks in at times to meet the system power demand, especially at high assistance modes.

Assume you are discharging the RE first. The main battery is untouched for the most of the ride. However, as you are at low RE charge, the main battery starts helping the RE anyway to protect the latter!

All this is masked by the "150%" style battery level display.

 

[charleyt]

I do totally agree. As I use a Wahoo ELEMNT for my SL e-bike, I am able to track each e-bike battery level independently.

View attachment 170817

I own as many as 4 Range Extenders and have been on multiple long rides with discharging the main and extender batteries in parallel or with the RE first. That gave me a great insight into the mechanics of the process. For instance (when you look at the level % only) it appears the main battery is discharging faster than the RE. In reality, the system just tries keeping the identical charge for both batteries. (This is for the parallel discharging). In case of discharging the RE first, the main battery kicks in at times to meet the system power demand, especially at high assistance modes.

Assume you are discharging the RE first. The main battery is untouched for the most of the ride. However, as you are at low RE charge, the main battery starts helping the RE anyway to protect the latter!

All this is masked by the "150%" style battery level display.

Okay @Stefan Mikes , that's helpful. I knew you would have some insight. I don't manually go into the app and set it to discharge RE first. Do you think I'd get more battery life in total that way? Or does parallel discharge offer more range? And why does the app say discharging the RE first may impact long-term battery health?

I am able to see the main battery level on my garmin 1030 and I'll check to see if I can view the RE separately.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Okay @Stefan Mikes , that's helpful. I knew you would have some insight. I don't manually go into the app and set it to discharge RE first. Do you think I'd get more battery life in total that way? Or does parallel discharge offer more range? And why does the app say discharging the RE first may impact long-term battery health?

Riding in the parallel discharge is always recommended unless you own several Range Extenders. The main + RE battery ensure the maximum range, power, and battery longevity. However, having several REs will make you rotate the REs in the "discharge first" mode for short rides (as I am doing for grocery shopping often). In such a case, you try keeping the number of recharges on all batteries equal for great longevity. I tend to save the main battery against any excessive number of recharges because I might need a relatively little degraded main battery for extremely long rides. Again, I own several Range Extenders and it is not what an average SL e-bike owner would do

Besides, riding in the "Discharge the extender battery first" puts you into the battery starvation region when you need high assistance the most, usually.

I am able to see the main battery level on my garmin 1030 and I'll check to see if I can view the RE separately.

It is not possible with either Garmin or Hammerhead bike computers. Only Wahoo has been as smart as to implement it.

That was a crazy gravel ultramarathon of 263 km. As I was in the "racing mode" and had my Gear And Support vehicle around, I was riding at 80% assistance (unrestricted) and even 4 Range Extenders would not be enough. A short overnight recharging using an SL Y-Cable and two chargers was not enough, so I had to ride for some 60 km on my other e-bike. Eventually, I decided to ride the Vado SL for the most of the race as the SL handled rough terrain properly.

I have changed since. Started working out at low assistance modes to be eventually able to take a shorter race with the battery removed and on my own leg power

 

[AvalancheRun]

At what % does the support drop without range extenders? On my Gazelle it's noticeable around 20%, with a big dip in climbing ability at 10%.

 

[charleyt]

Riding in the parallel discharge is always recommended unless you own several Range Extenders. The main + RE battery ensure the maximum range, power, and battery longevity. However, having several REs will make you rotate the REs in the "discharge first" mode for short rides (as I am doing for grocery shopping often). In such a case, you try keeping the number of recharges on all batteries equal for great longevity. I tend to save the main battery against any excessive number of recharges because I might need a relatively little degraded main battery for extremely long rides. Again, I own several Range Extenders and it is not what an average SL e-bike owner would do

Besides, riding in the "Discharge the extender battery first" puts you into the battery starvation region when you need high assistance the most, usually.


It is not possible with either Garmin or Hammerhead bike computers. Only Wahoo has been as smart as to implement it.

View attachment 170818
That was a crazy gravel ultramarathon of 263 km. As I was in the "racing mode" and had my Gear And Support vehicle around, I was riding at 80% assistance (unrestricted) and even 4 Range Extenders would not be enough. A short overnight recharging using an SL Y-Cable and two chargers was not enough, so I had to ride for some 60 km on my other e-bike. Eventually, I decided to ride the Vado SL for the most of the race as the SL handled rough terrain properly.

I have changed since. Started working out at low assistance modes to be eventually able to take a shorter race with the battery removed and on my own leg power

Thanks for the image and the context. That ultragravel race is an extreme use case. It's valuable to have a fringe user of this system to help inform the rest of us.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

At what % does the support drop without range extenders? On my Gazelle it's noticeable around 20%, with a big dip in climbing ability at 10%.

The most pronounced performance drop occurs at 10% of the main battery (the SL e-bike feels like it were crawling) while you can observe some diminished assistance from 20% down. For my optimized, fast but long distance rides with multiple Range Extenders, I monitor the use the way no battery charge ever drops below 20% (just for the peace of mind). It is because riding at, say, 80% assistance is very heavy on SL batteries.

Once, I was on a big and fast gravel group ride on my Vado SL. I had to use four range extenders with the rule that no battery would drop below 15%. After the group ride was over, I had to pedal to the train station with a steep climb along the way. When I needed assistance the most, my SL lost its performance, what a shame! I then had to pedal from my destination train stop to home; this required me to shuffle my range extenders so I could reach home on fumes!

An interesting comparison: The full power Vado battery performs very well down to the cut off at 5%. On the other hand, full power Giant e-bikes perform well below the 20% battery charge but the charge drops off the cliff in a very short time!

 

[Nubnub]

At what % does the support drop without range extenders? On my Gazelle it's noticeable around 20%, with a big dip in climbing ability at 10%.

From the Creo 2 user manual:

The charge level of the battery is displayed during your ride on the display of the MasterMind TCU. The charge level can be customized to show in any of the fields on any page of the MasterMind TCU.
At approximately 15-20% (depending on cell temperature and other factors) battery charge remaining, the system starts to reduce the amount of motor support to ensure continuous assistance at lower charge levels.
At approximately 3%, the system switches off motor support leaving the bicycle powered on. This not only supports battery health and lifetime, but it also allows you to keep any wired lights powered for about 2 hours.
The timing of the motor shut-off may slightly vary depending on cell temperature or discharge scenario (e.g. when using a Range Extender in single or parallel discharge).
If your bicycle is at a standstill for 15 minutes or longer, the system turns itself off to save power. In order to continue riding with support, you have to turn the system on again.

When riding in ECO modes, my experience on a Vado SL is that the reduction in power is not noticeable until the battery drops to the 10-15% range. I've never ridden below the 3% but definitely notice the reduction in power at <10%.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

When riding in ECO modes, my experience on a Vado SL is that the reduction in power is not noticeable until the battery drops to the 10-15% range. I've never ridden below the 3% but definitely notice the reduction in power at <10%.

It also depends on your assistance levels. In low assistance modes, the performance drop is not that noticeable. The drop from the high Sport mode is just shocking, though, and can be observed earlier.

 

[charleyt]

allows you to keep any wired lights powered for about 2 hours.

You can hard wire lights on the Creo 2?

 

[Dazmanturbo]

You can hard wire lights on the Creo 2?

Same as the Creo 1, a 12v supply can be taken off the bike via a splitter cable on the TCU. A front light is easy, but the rear is more of a challenge and no rear access holes near the seat.

 

[AvalancheRun]

Thoughts on Expert Vs Comp?

I have an Expert Diverge and notice the difference carbon wheels make to power delivery. Apex vs Rival differences are less clear to me. Is braking and shifting significantly better? I've heard it's possible to find discounts on Experts. If the paint choices were more interesting I'd go for Expert.. but that yellow is pretty sweet.

 

[Dazmanturbo]

Thoughts on Expert Vs Comp?

I have an Expert Diverge and notice the difference carbon wheels make to power delivery. Apex vs Rival differences are less clear to me. Is braking and shifting significantly better? I've heard it's possible to find discounts on Experts. If the paint choices were more interesting I'd go for Expert.. but that yellow is pretty sweet.

With the Creo, both 1 and 2 share the same carbon frame from Comp to S-works. I went for Comp as good entry price and I could swap to the bit I wanted. Yes the Expert get some better stuff, but the difference in price, I get exactly what I want and custom to me. My Creo 2 was under £6000 all in and it is circa 12kg. Had I got the expert, I would have still swapped many of the same bits

 

[SAZZZ]

Are any of you riding your Creo 2 acoustically, without power, for any 30 - 40 mile rides?

 

[AvalancheRun]

With the Creo, both 1 and 2 share the same carbon frame from Comp to S-works. I went for Comp as good entry price and I could swap to the bit I wanted. Yes the Expert get some better stuff, but the difference in price, I get exactly what I want and custom to me. My Creo 2 was under £6000 all in and it is circa 12kg. Had I got the expert, I would have still swapped many of the same bits

Yeah that just seems to be the way to go. No weight difference between these two either. Don’t see how the groupsets would make a huge difference in this instance. The wheels could be easily upgrade. The price difference with discount is about as much as the wheel set, so it’d be a decent deal. The color though would bug me every day, lol.