specialized creo 2

AvalancheRun said:
Great input, thanks! The geometry comparisons are interesting. SC puts me firmly on an XL Skitch, which is -28mm stack and +34mm reach from the 58 Creo 2.
58 just felt more relaxed, more upright, and less scrunched than my 56. As you said, 9mm reach is easy to change with a stem.
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I'm 191cm and 89 inseam. Test rode the XL Skitch (really awesome bike with "progressive" geo) and got the 58 creo 2. I like to be more 'on' the bike than 'in' the bike. I've test ridden a 61 frame, not a creo, and it's ridiculously large. My ideal size is a 59. Had to lengthen the stem a bit on my creo and overall my position on the bike is quite comfortable. And maybe the most comfortable I've ever been on the hoods for extended time.

My partner got the 56 creo 2 and she's 177.cm. She didn't even need a stem swap. Her ideal size is a 57.
 
More experience gained with the RE and bike charged to 150%. This weekend we went on another long ride. When the battery hit 19%, the very significant drop in assist started. I made it back with 18% and left the RE plugged into the bike overnight. In the morning turned on the bike and it said 4% battery remaining. I unplugged the RE and it still said 4%. I assume the RE continued to discharge at the end. So anyone using this system should plan on about 130-135% of battery being available for assistance. After that it's very minimal assistance and switching between the different modes feels like it does nothing to change the level of assistance.
 
charleyt said:
So anyone using this system should plan on about 130-135% of battery being available for assistance. After that it's very minimal assistance and switching between the different modes feels like it does nothing to change the level of assistance.
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I do totally agree. As I use a Wahoo ELEMNT for my SL e-bike, I am able to track each e-bike battery level independently.

1707151069432.png


I own as many as 4 Range Extenders and have been on multiple long rides with discharging the main and extender batteries in parallel or with the RE first. That gave me a great insight into the mechanics of the process. For instance (when you look at the level % only) it appears the main battery is discharging faster than the RE. In reality, the system just tries keeping the identical charge for both batteries. (This is for the parallel discharging). In case of discharging the RE first, the main battery kicks in at times to meet the system power demand, especially at high assistance modes.

Assume you are discharging the RE first. The main battery is untouched for the most of the ride. However, as you are at low RE charge, the main battery starts helping the RE anyway to protect the latter!

All this is masked by the "150%" style battery level display.
 
Stefan Mikes said:
I do totally agree. As I use a Wahoo ELEMNT for my SL e-bike, I am able to track each e-bike battery level independently.

View attachment 170817

I own as many as 4 Range Extenders and have been on multiple long rides with discharging the main and extender batteries in parallel or with the RE first. That gave me a great insight into the mechanics of the process. For instance (when you look at the level % only) it appears the main battery is discharging faster than the RE. In reality, the system just tries keeping the identical charge for both batteries. (This is for the parallel discharging). In case of discharging the RE first, the main battery kicks in at times to meet the system power demand, especially at high assistance modes.

Assume you are discharging the RE first. The main battery is untouched for the most of the ride. However, as you are at low RE charge, the main battery starts helping the RE anyway to protect the latter!

All this is masked by the "150%" style battery level display.
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Okay @Stefan Mikes , that's helpful. I knew you would have some insight. I don't manually go into the app and set it to discharge RE first. Do you think I'd get more battery life in total that way? Or does parallel discharge offer more range? And why does the app say discharging the RE first may impact long-term battery health?

I am able to see the main battery level on my garmin 1030 and I'll check to see if I can view the RE separately.
 
charleyt said:
Okay @Stefan Mikes , that's helpful. I knew you would have some insight. I don't manually go into the app and set it to discharge RE first. Do you think I'd get more battery life in total that way? Or does parallel discharge offer more range? And why does the app say discharging the RE first may impact long-term battery health?
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Riding in the parallel discharge is always recommended unless you own several Range Extenders. The main + RE battery ensure the maximum range, power, and battery longevity. However, having several REs will make you rotate the REs in the "discharge first" mode for short rides (as I am doing for grocery shopping often). In such a case, you try keeping the number of recharges on all batteries equal for great longevity. I tend to save the main battery against any excessive number of recharges because I might need a relatively little degraded main battery for extremely long rides. Again, I own several Range Extenders and it is not what an average SL e-bike owner would do :)

Besides, riding in the "Discharge the extender battery first" puts you into the battery starvation region when you need high assistance the most, usually.

charleyt said:
I am able to see the main battery level on my garmin 1030 and I'll check to see if I can view the RE separately.
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It is not possible with either Garmin or Hammerhead bike computers. Only Wahoo has been as smart as to implement it.

1707157605342.png

That was a crazy gravel ultramarathon of 263 km. As I was in the "racing mode" and had my Gear And Support vehicle around, I was riding at 80% assistance (unrestricted) and even 4 Range Extenders would not be enough. A short overnight recharging using an SL Y-Cable and two chargers was not enough, so I had to ride for some 60 km on my other e-bike. Eventually, I decided to ride the Vado SL for the most of the race as the SL handled rough terrain properly.

I have changed since. Started working out at low assistance modes to be eventually able to take a shorter race with the battery removed and on my own leg power :)
 
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At what % does the support drop without range extenders? On my Gazelle it's noticeable around 20%, with a big dip in climbing ability at 10%.
 
Stefan Mikes said:
Riding in the parallel discharge is always recommended unless you own several Range Extenders. The main + RE battery ensure the maximum range, power, and battery longevity. However, having several REs will make you rotate the REs in the "discharge first" mode for short rides (as I am doing for grocery shopping often). In such a case, you try keeping the number of recharges on all batteries equal for great longevity. I tend to save the main battery against any excessive number of recharges because I might need a relatively little degraded main battery for extremely long rides. Again, I own several Range Extenders and it is not what an average SL e-bike owner would do :)

Besides, riding in the "Discharge the extender battery first" puts you into the battery starvation region when you need high assistance the most, usually.


It is not possible with either Garmin or Hammerhead bike computers. Only Wahoo has been as smart as to implement it.

View attachment 170818
That was a crazy gravel ultramarathon of 263 km. As I was in the "racing mode" and had my Gear And Support vehicle around, I was riding at 80% assistance (unrestricted) and even 4 Range Extenders would not be enough. A short overnight recharging using an SL Y-Cable and two chargers was not enough, so I had to ride for some 60 km on my other e-bike. Eventually, I decided to ride the Vado SL for the most of the race as the SL handled rough terrain properly.

I have changed since. Started working out at low assistance modes to be eventually able to take a shorter race with the battery removed and on my own leg power :)
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Thanks for the image and the context. That ultragravel race is an extreme use case. It's valuable to have a fringe user of this system to help inform the rest of us.
 
AvalancheRun said:
At what % does the support drop without range extenders? On my Gazelle it's noticeable around 20%, with a big dip in climbing ability at 10%.
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The most pronounced performance drop occurs at 10% of the main battery (the SL e-bike feels like it were crawling) while you can observe some diminished assistance from 20% down. For my optimized, fast but long distance rides with multiple Range Extenders, I monitor the use the way no battery charge ever drops below 20% (just for the peace of mind). It is because riding at, say, 80% assistance is very heavy on SL batteries.

Once, I was on a big and fast gravel group ride on my Vado SL. I had to use four range extenders with the rule that no battery would drop below 15%. After the group ride was over, I had to pedal to the train station with a steep climb along the way. When I needed assistance the most, my SL lost its performance, what a shame! I then had to pedal from my destination train stop to home; this required me to shuffle my range extenders so I could reach home on fumes!

An interesting comparison: The full power Vado battery performs very well down to the cut off at 5%. On the other hand, full power Giant e-bikes perform well below the 20% battery charge but the charge drops off the cliff in a very short time!
 
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AvalancheRun said:
At what % does the support drop without range extenders? On my Gazelle it's noticeable around 20%, with a big dip in climbing ability at 10%.
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From the Creo 2 user manual:

The charge level of the battery is displayed during your ride on the display of the MasterMind TCU. The charge level can be customized to show in any of the fields on any page of the MasterMind TCU.
At approximately 15-20% (depending on cell temperature and other factors) battery charge remaining, the system starts to reduce the amount of motor support to ensure continuous assistance at lower charge levels.
At approximately 3%, the system switches off motor support leaving the bicycle powered on. This not only supports battery health and lifetime, but it also allows you to keep any wired lights powered for about 2 hours.
The timing of the motor shut-off may slightly vary depending on cell temperature or discharge scenario (e.g. when using a Range Extender in single or parallel discharge).
If your bicycle is at a standstill for 15 minutes or longer, the system turns itself off to save power. In order to continue riding with support, you have to turn the system on again.

When riding in ECO modes, my experience on a Vado SL is that the reduction in power is not noticeable until the battery drops to the 10-15% range. I've never ridden below the 3% but definitely notice the reduction in power at <10%.
 
Nubnub said:
When riding in ECO modes, my experience on a Vado SL is that the reduction in power is not noticeable until the battery drops to the 10-15% range. I've never ridden below the 3% but definitely notice the reduction in power at <10%.
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It also depends on your assistance levels. In low assistance modes, the performance drop is not that noticeable. The drop from the high Sport mode is just shocking, though, and can be observed earlier.
 
Thoughts on Expert Vs Comp?

I have an Expert Diverge and notice the difference carbon wheels make to power delivery. Apex vs Rival differences are less clear to me. Is braking and shifting significantly better? I've heard it's possible to find discounts on Experts. If the paint choices were more interesting I'd go for Expert.. but that yellow is pretty sweet. :D
 
AvalancheRun said:
Thoughts on Expert Vs Comp?

I have an Expert Diverge and notice the difference carbon wheels make to power delivery. Apex vs Rival differences are less clear to me. Is braking and shifting significantly better? I've heard it's possible to find discounts on Experts. If the paint choices were more interesting I'd go for Expert.. but that yellow is pretty sweet. :D
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With the Creo, both 1 and 2 share the same carbon frame from Comp to S-works. I went for Comp as good entry price and I could swap to the bit I wanted. Yes the Expert get some better stuff, but the difference in price, I get exactly what I want and custom to me. My Creo 2 was under £6000 all in and it is circa 12kg. Had I got the expert, I would have still swapped many of the same bits
 
Dazmanturbo said:
With the Creo, both 1 and 2 share the same carbon frame from Comp to S-works. I went for Comp as good entry price and I could swap to the bit I wanted. Yes the Expert get some better stuff, but the difference in price, I get exactly what I want and custom to me. My Creo 2 was under £6000 all in and it is circa 12kg. Had I got the expert, I would have still swapped many of the same bits
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Yeah that just seems to be the way to go. No weight difference between these two either. Don’t see how the groupsets would make a huge difference in this instance. The wheels could be easily upgrade. The price difference with discount is about as much as the wheel set, so it’d be a decent deal. The color though would bug me every day, lol.
 
AvalancheRun said:
Yeah that just seems to be the way to go. No weight difference between these two either. Don’t see how the groupsets would make a huge difference in this instance. The wheels could be easily upgrade. The price difference with discount is about as much as the wheel set, so it’d be a decent deal. The color though would bug me every day, lol.
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With Shimano, there was a clear difference in the tiers that you could feel. I don't have huge experience with SRAM, but the lines are less so with them. I was worried about APEX stuff, but got to say it is excellent. I did change the rear derailleur cage to save some weight and get some bling on the bike. I did look at at levers, but the weight difference was just a few grams and not worth the cost. I know I wanted the Gold carbon Comp, but only the Blue was available in my size. I am now so glad I got that one as with the gold accents, looks great. If you don' like the colour.........dark glasses....lol
 
Dazmanturbo said:
Same as the Creo 1, a 12v supply can be taken off the bike via a splitter cable on the TCU. A front light is easy, but the rear is more of a challenge and no rear access holes near the seat.
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Can you tell me if the splitter cable is already in place or needs to be sourced. Also what watts/current lights can be used. Thanks.
 
Twowheelxtc said:
Can you tell me if the splitter cable is already in place or needs to be sourced. Also what watts/current lights can be used. Thanks.
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Not sure that this info is published. I'd look at the specifications for the lights used on the Como SL and Vado SL models as guidance.

If you find one which can be set to flash do let us know - that's the biggest reason I've not looked into this any further, I prefer the enhanced daytime visibility of a flashing front light and just use my Bontrager Ion 200 RT.
 
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