SONDORS is releasing it's first mid-drive EBikes.

[Ebiker33]

I have been in touch with Sondors and they said it's top secret but next week they will be releasing their first mid-drive Ebikes.
I own a Sonders and wanted some information but they wouldn't give me any they said wait for it.
Since their prices have always been reasonable, these should impact the mid range part of the Ebike industry.

Sneak peak pics

 

[rich c]

Not exactly top secret, it was announced last week on the Sondors Facebook owners page with the first day of order this past Thursday. That didn't happen, but over 10,000 members of that page know about it and the yellow picture is the cover picture on the page. Odd way to keep a top secret!

 

[TMH]

I have been in touch with Sondors and they said it's top secret but next week they will be releasing their first mid-drive Ebikes.
I own a Sonders and wanted some information but they wouldn't give me any they said wait for it.
Since their prices have always been reasonable, these should impact the mid range part of the Ebike industry.

Sneak peak pics

Those new bikes look like a really big step forward for Sondors. I like the yellow one.

 

[Ebiker33]

How much $

I guess that is the top secret part for now. I am very interested in the price and motors they will be using also the controller amps, if they bump up to 30A this will be a powerful bike, their MXS already uses a 25A and that is just a hub drive.

 

[rich c]

I'm always skeptical when Sondors start posting computer renderings as a new release. I bet these will have a long delivery time. With no cables or hoses showing on the handlebars, this surely isn't a prototype. Thankful they took that 3 wheeled vehicle off the scope and getting back to better bikes.

 

[Ebiker33]

Bolton had a converter that did 35A for a Sonders, if you have an ultra you need at least a 35A and 52V battery helps as well.

 

[Ebiker33]

Got a special Email from them today for a prebuy for existing owners.


I like this one only 2K
A real fat tire bike with 4.9" tires

The cruiser version also 2K
The tires on this one are 3"

The full suspension version 2.5K

 

[TomD]

Did they happen to give any other specs at that price point? If it has the ultra motor and a fairly large integrated battery that is going to be a really compelling proposition for a lot of folks.

 

[Ebiker33]

They haven specified the motor brand but it does come with a 48/21amp battery and 25 amp controller here is the quote

SONDORS Mid-drive system, 750 Watts continuous power, 1152 Watts peak. Integrated 25 Amp controller. With the mid-drive motor, riding feels just like a non-motorized bike when pedaling because the system can completely freewheel. The motor includes pedal assist sensors (PAS), allowing you to choose the power level of motor assistance that you would like while pedaling. At any time, you can use the throttle instead to engage the motor.

I don't know for sure, but my guess is a custom type of M600

 

[TomD]

I don't know if it will be a Frey EX killer but definitely will be strong competition for domestic sellers of ultra bikes that have traditionally overpriced them. I'd say this undercuts the more competitive sellers by around $500 and the less competitive by $1,000 or more. That is why Frey did so well, even with high shipping costs.

 

[Ebiker33]

oh okay, 25A is a bit too weak for Ultra.

Maybe people will get a Grin Phaserunner or something.

Yeah for sure, but still at 2K for a mid-drive that gets a lot more people looking at Ebikes, in 2020.

More specs

• ng

• SONDORS Rockstar
• SONDORS Cruiser
• SONDORS LX

SONDORS Elite Class Sport Utility Mid-Drive
SONDORS LX

750 Watts
POWER
Torque Sensing
Mid-Drive
MOTOR
48V 21 Ah
BATTERY
Order Now
Beauty is a beast
LX
Ride in style and luxury regardless of conditions. With an all-new low-entry, elevated chainstay frame, the SONDORS LX is a premium mid-drive sport utility fat electric bike. Featuring 750 watts from our powerful new mid-drive motor, combined with 21 amp hours of range extending energy in our biggest battery to date, SONDORS LX is an extravagant means to any end.
Order Now

Custom designed around our new mid-drive system
Bespoke forged and machined aluminum alloy frame
Optimized for strength, style, and all-season performance

SONDORS
Mid-Drive
Order Now
SONDORS Mid-drive system, 750 Watts continuous power, 1152 Watts peak. Integrated 25 Amp controller. With the mid drive motor, riding feels just like a non-motorized bike when pedaling because the system can completely freewheel. The motor includes pedal assist sensors (PAS), so you can choose the power level of motor assistance that you would like while pedaling. At any time, you can use the throttle instead to engage the motor.

Special Edition
Colors
AventadorBlackArctic
Specifications
LX
Range
40-60 miles*
Speed
28 MPH+
Motor
750 Watt Mid-drive Motor
Controller
Integrated 25 Amp
Tires
Maxxis® 26 x 4.9"
Wheels
Aluminum rims with sealed bearing hubs
Crank Set
Integrated Mid-drive w/ 48T
*All range estimates are contingent upon rider and towing weight, riding style, wind speed and terrain.
+
Expand List
Lights
Integrated LED Headlight and Tail Light
Battery
New, 48 Volt, 21 Amp Hour, Lithium-ion battery with genuine LG 3500 cells. The largest battery ever in a SONDORS.
Throttle
Thumb throttle for those times you don't feel like pedaling
Brakes
Tektro hydraulic Disc Brakes
Frame
Custom Forged and Machined Aluminum, with Integrated Custom Fork
Gears
7-speed with grip shifter
Pedal Assist Gearsensor
Intelligent torque limiting gear sensor for smooth effortless shifting even under heavy load.
Charging
3A Smart Charger Included
Seat
Premium ergonomic gel
Handlebars
Premium ergonomic
Color LCD Display
Great Daylight Visibility and Includes USB Port
Total Weight
65 lbs
Standover Height
18.75”
Seat Height
31 - 36.8”
Load Capacity
300 lbs

 

[jaizon]

oh okay, 25A is a bit too weak for Ultra.

Maybe people will get a Grin Phaserunner or something.

Can you explain what the 25A is too weak and why Sonders might have chosen to use it? Thanks.

 

[FlatSix911]

Looks like a nice clean design with the integrated battery and mid-drive... much better than the old triangle battery.

 

[scout592]

Its too bad they are only offering the huge fat tires in those three models. I just chatted with rep on their site asking about a 2-3 tire version for us commuters, paved street etc. but he said not an option on those new models.

 

[jaizon]

yeah as you may know, the standard spec for Bafang Ultra is 1000W nominal / 1600W max.

However, the Ultra is capable of a lot higher settings, some went up to 4000W. (search Andy Kirby on YouTube)

48V x 25A is 1200W max. Which is quite low for Bafang Ultra.

Just for comparison, Juiced CrossCurrent X for example, is based on 350W rated Bafang motor, and still boosted up to 52V x 25A.

Why did Sondors choose this setting? That's something you would have to ask Sondors, I really don't know.

So if I don't care about going above 1200W max, then it's a good deal?

 

[TomD]

So if I don't care about going above 1200W max, then it's a good deal?

Definitely, I keep my Ultra in PAS 2-3 (of 5) most of the time. It's not a very efficient motor, especially at high PAS.

 

[TomD]

I just checked the Sondors site and the detailed image of the rockstar shows the M600 motor not the Ultra.

I contacted Sondors via online chat asked if it was the Ultra motor or M600 and they replied:

The motor is a SONDORS custom Bafang M620 Ultra. We have our own 9 step torque profile and delivery curve.

I asked if it was the new canbus protocol (can't be programmed by the user) that Bafang is using for the M600 and is reportedly moving to for the Ultra, or the current protocol that can be programmed by the user via USB cable and they replied:

As of now it will be programmable That could change between now and October.

Just my impression talking to them via chat this company has pretty damn impressive customer service to respond to technical questions like that intelligently and respond within minutes.

 

[jaizon]

It depends.

To someone who is looking for a powerful ebike, it still is a good deal because Bafang Ultra is an expensive unit so there still will be an option to upgrade to other controllers like Grin Phaserunner, Luna Ludicrous, WattWagons Archon X1, etc.

For somebody like you, it may not worth it, since max power doesn't seem like your concern.
in your case, Bafang Ultra seems a bit redundant and frankly waste of money.
Maybe BBS01 or BBS02 will do.
If you're looking for a 500W ebike for example, why would you get an over-spec motor and de-tune it?

For example, say you're looking for a commuter car, and you're only looking for 100 to 150 horsepower because that's plenty enough for commuting.

And there's a Ford Shelby GT500 motor, 5.2L V8 Supercharged, 760 horsepower.

But you don't care about that much power, you just want 150 horsepower.
So you decide to lower the boost, lower the fuel and air, reprogram the ECU, make it more economical, and make it 150hp.

So, if there's a commuter car (Ford Focus) that comes with Shelby V8, but de-tuned to 150hp, would I call it a "bad deal" like you said?

That depends on who you ask, to me, that seems redundant. Why not just put a 4cyl engine with 150hp, instead of putting a big heavy duty engine and de-tune it.

Well, it's not quite that bad, but I understand the analogy. I owned an Audi S5, not because I needed the power and performance, but because I liked them. In this case I do not need more than the top rated power, but could use the top power (torque) for several hills I ride on every day and especially the one leading up to my house. My 500W hub drive Bafang will not make that hill without me pedaling as hard as I can and several other hills require great effort.

Biktrix makes the Stunner X with a BBS02 mid drive. Enough torque and power. The Sonders Cruiser in this new series and the Stunner X would be the two I would look at head to head (both with the 3" tires). And yes, there are definite differences, but the pricing is close.

 

[scout592]

jauzon, the Biktrix StunnerX has cadence sensor, not sure what the Cruiser has, do you know?. Would that make much of a difference to you?

 

[TomD]

Cruiser has the same motor as the other 2 new bikes. I think Sondors will sell a lot of these. They really nailed the gap when it comes to affordable higher powered mid drives.