Salsa e-Bikes - Bikepacking Options

[Aushiker]

There are two new offerings from Salsa that are aimed at the bikepacking/gravel market by the looks.

Thankfully for me, having ordered an R & M Supercharger 2 for touring, the Tributary (with a rigid fork) is not sold in Australia (well as yet). With an extra battery/range extender it would have made the short list for sure.

Tributary

Confluence

 

[BlackHand]

The Tributary is a nice looking bike for sure. I've been watching for reviews but not too many out there yet.

A tad heavy, though it seems well thought out. One downside, IMO, is they encased the battery in the downtube so you can't swap a spare in on a ride. I guess you could carry multiple extenders, but I think the Supercharger 2 is a better solution for the riding you've described yourself doing.

It is tempting to test one out. REI here in the States has a 365 day return policy on ebikes and they carry Salsa.

 

[Aushiker]

It is tempting to test one out. REI here in the States has a 365 day return policy on ebikes and they carry Salsa.

I so wish for something similar here. You are lucky having access to such a policy.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

are aimed at the bikepacking/gravel market by the looks.

Specialized Creo 2.

 

[jabberwocky]

Tributary is very interesting. 625whr battery, full power Bosch motor, big tire clearance, lots of mounts, compatible with the range extender. Might go on the list of replacements for my Revolt when the time comes. Been waiting for someone to do a drop bar bike with the larger battery emtbs have been coming with...

Specialized Creo 2.

Not a direct competitor for either of these. The confluence is a much less expensive hub motor bike (less than half the price of the cheapest Creo 2), and the Tributary is a full power drop bar with huge battery (and still $1k less expensive than the cheapest Creo 2).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Tributary is very interesting. 625whr battery, full power Bosch motor, big tire clearance, lots of mounts, compatible with the range extender. Might go on the list of replacements for my Revolt when the time comes. Been waiting for someone to do a drop bar bike with the larger battery emtbs have been coming with...



Not a direct competitor for either of these. The confluence is a much less expensive hub motor bike (less than half the price of the cheapest Creo 2), and the Tributary is a full power drop bar with huge battery (and still $1k less expensive than the cheapest Creo 2).

Weight.

 

[Aushiker]

Weight.

14.47 kg for the Turbo Creo 2 Comp against 14.57 kg for the Confluence GRX 6002X.

 

[jabberwocky]

Weight.

Apples to oranges comparison though, at least for the Tributary. Full power ebike with a 625whr battery vs a low power ebike with a 320whr battery. Very different geometry too. The Salsa has a 4 degree slacker head angle, 10mm longer chainstay, less BB drop and a considerably longer wheelbase. Creo is more endurance road geometry, the Tributary is almost past gravel into bikepacking MTB territory.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Creo

You probably mention the Creo 1 Evo. Creo 2 is as ideal gravel e-bike as an e-bike can ever be. Yes, a 320 Wh battery but an unlimited number of Range Extenders. (You can decide how many 1-kg REs you are taking on the trip).

Get into such an adventure cycling situation with a Salsa

I have to get such ride stats from any Salsa rider yet. It was even not a Creo 2 but a Vado SL

 

[Aushiker]

View attachment 172883
View attachment 172884
I have to get such ride stats from any Salsa rider yet. It was even not a Creo 2 but a Vado SL

Nice effort, well done. What as the total battery Wh that you carried or did you do a recharge at some point?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Nice effort, well done. What as the total battery Wh that you carried or did you do a recharge at some point?

I had a pool of 960 Wh (the main battery and four Range Extenders: 4 kg extra to be carried). Plus two chargers, so I was rather on a heavy side. Yes, I had to do some recharge at an agrotourism farm. While I had a several hours sleep, I could recharge the main battery and two Range Extenders (worth 640 Wh). I used an SL Y-Cable to recharge the main battery and one RE at the same time. (The night recharging took 3 hours and 20 minutes). I slept shortly and re-started the ride before the dawn.

The calculated battery consumption factor was 6 Wh/km, which is pretty high for an SL e-bike. However, approximately half of the ride was in a hard terrain, and that was a race. Even if I was not expected to get a place, I tried to be as good as I could be and finished with many riders behind me (even more DNF the race).

Necessary to mention I had a bad crash on asphalt several kilometres into the ride. The helmet has saved my skull!

 

[Aushiker]

Thanks, Stefan. Well done on the race and thanks for the info particular on the battery consumption.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thanks, Stefan. Well done on the race and thanks for the info particular on the battery consumption.

Thank you Aushiker! Trust me, the feeling when you are approaching a 10% climb on wet rough cobblestones in the morning, and you are so packed with adrenalin you even do not notice how you have got on the summit; and then pedal with your all might for the next 20 km to be on the finish line is an adventure I will never forget!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Get into such an adventure cycling situation with a Salsa

I don’t think you need to worry too much about Salsa being able to compete on such terrain, this was after all flat Poland & Salsa are better known for competing in such extreme off road races as the GDMBR with its thousands of miles through the Rockies & deserts from Canada to Mexico with usually half the riders racing on Salsa bikes. I mean back in 2013 Salsa practically invented gravel racing bikes with the Cutthroat.

But I don’t think youre going to get many stats on their Ebikes yet- think they’re just releasing them now and anyway it’s not like for like- the Bosch one is a drop bar emtb so designed for much tougher off-road use then the Creos.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I don’t think you need to worry too much about Salsa being able to compete on such terrain, this was after all flat Poland & Salsa are better known for competing in such extreme off road races as the GDMBR with its thousands of miles through the Rockies & deserts from Canada to Mexico with usually half the riders racing on Salsa bikes. I mean back in 2013 Salsa practically invented gravel racing bikes with the Cutthroat.

But I don’t think youre going to get many stats on their Ebikes yet- think they’re just releasing them now and anyway it’s not like for like- the Bosch one is a drop bar emtb so designed for much tougher off-road use then the Creos.

Certainly, certainly. I only would need to hear from any early adopter who has ridden a Salsa for 100 miles yet And has carried the e-bike over a creek or a big fallen tree Or, was carrying their e-bike up a sandy hill (where you could not use Walk Assist. (You are right: the Bosch Salsa is an XC e-bike with drop bars.)

The fact Salsa had invented modern gravel cycling does not mean the brand is good at e-bikes.

 

[jabberwocky]

You probably mention the Creo 1 Evo. Creo 2 is as ideal gravel e-bike as an e-bike can ever be. Yes, a 320 Wh battery but an unlimited number of Range Extenders. (You can decide how many 1-kg REs you are taking on the trip).

Thanks for assuming I mispoke, but I was talking about the Creo 2. The Creo 2 has a 71° head angle, vs 67° on the Tributary (4° is a huge difference). The Creo 2 has a 435mm chainstay vs 445mm on the Tributary. Creo 2 has a 1022mm wheelbase (small) vs the Tributarys 1094mm. BB height is over an inch higher on the Trib (270mm vs 303mm). The Trib geometry says they started with the Cutthroat, which is a really good endurance off road bike.

In addition, the Creo 2 comes with roadie bars. I mean, the small comes with goddamn 380mm road drops. The Trib comes with Salsa Cowchippers (which are great shallow drop gravel bars) and the small starts at 440mm wide which are muuuuuch better suited for gravel.

The Creo 2 actually has geometry extremely similar to my non-electric gravel bike (Motobecane Century Ti) which I'm obviously very familiar with. 71.5°, 430mm, 1016.5mm, 274mm. Its endurance road geometry, though obviously it works ok on gravel.

The point isn't that one is better than the other, but they are obviously designed from the ground up for very different purposes. And I'm genuinely confused why you feel the need to come into an unrelated thread and crap on a bike you clearly know little about to shill for a bike that is not even a direct competitor. Does Specialized, like, pay you for this service?

The only ebike on the market I'm familiar with that actually competes in this space is the Niner RLT e9.

I had a pool of 960 Wh (the main battery and four Range Extenders: 4 kg extra to be carried). Plus two chargers, so I was rather on a heavy side. Yes, I had to do some recharge at an agrotourism farm.

I'm not sure "supplementing the small main battery with $2000 worth of range extenders" means that the Creo is a long distance beast the way you seem to think it does. Sure, you can do that, but it doesn't mean thats not a kludge.

Certainly, certainly. I only would need to hear from any early adopter who has ridden a Salsa for 100 miles yet And has carried the e-bike over a creek or a big fallen tree Or, was carrying their e-bike up a sandy hill (where you could not use Walk Assist. (You are right: the Bosch Salsa is an XC e-bike with drop bars.)

The fact Salsa had invented modern gravel cycling does not mean the brand is good at e-bikes.

LOL. "Salsa literally wrote the bike on gravel and bikepacking over the last 15 years, but it remains to be seen if they can handle buying motors from Bosch and attaching them to their bikes".

 

[Aushiker]

The only ebike on the market I'm familiar with that actually competes in this space is the Niner RLT e9.

Nice looking bike, which of course, is not brought into Australia .

BTW I assume their claim of 50 km range is an error given that it is a 500 Wh battery.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@jabberwocky:

This is a gravel e-bike (Specialized). 13-14 kg.

This is a gravel e-bike (Cannondale). A full power Bosch CX motor and still only 17.8 kg.

This is a gravel e-bike (Scott). 13 kg.

This is a gravel e-bike (Santa Cruz). 13.7 kg.

This is a 22.5 kg Frankenstein (Salsa).

My Range Extenders cost around total $1,800. I bought the first one for the customary discount on my Vado SL. The other three were bought time after time, when I felt a need. It was not one chunk of the investment. Now, wanted I a Creo 2, I would have a big number of REs to re-use on the new e-bike.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I don’t think you need to worry too much about Salsa being able to compete on such terrain, this was after all flat Poland & Salsa are better known for competing in such extreme off road races as the GDMBR with its thousands of miles through the Rockies & deserts from Canada to Mexico with usually half the riders racing on Salsa bikes. I mean back in 2013 Salsa practically invented gravel racing bikes with the Cutthroat.

But I don’t think youre going to get many stats on their Ebikes yet- think they’re just releasing them now and anyway it’s not like for like- the Bosch one is a drop bar emtb so designed for much tougher off-road use then the Creos.

Should have said: invented gravel racing with the Warbird not the Cutthroat.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

@jabberwocky:

View attachment 172888
This is a gravel e-bike (Specialized). 13-14 kg.




View attachment 172889
This is a gravel e-bike (Cannondale). A full power Bosch CX motor and still only 17.8 kg.

View attachment 172890
This is a gravel e-bike (Scott). 13 kg.

View attachment 172891
This is a gravel e-bike (Santa Cruz). 13.7 kg.


View attachment 172892
This is a 22.5 kg Frankenstein (Salsa).

My Range Extenders cost around total $1,800. I bought the first one for the customary discount on my Vado SL. The other three were bought time after time, when I felt a need. It was not one chunk of the investment. Now, wanted I a Creo 2, I would have a big number of REs to re-use on the new e-bike.

What's your point Stefan? Why hijack this thread to make a point that isn't valid here?!

And anyway is this a fair like for like comparison? In price or motor size (with exception of Cannonade) or battery size or frame material? I'd say knowing their customer base Salsa wanted a large battery for long days in the mountains where gradients eat away battery quickly, echoing full power emtbs and with a similar weight as those. Lets see what riders make of them.

This seems so childish. Like Top trumps. "My brand is better then your brand". As you know I own a Specialized but I also own a Salsa. Both great bikes. I've owned Kona, Marin, KHS, Peugeot, MBK, Raleigh, Vitus, Mongoose and many more I can't even remember. Road bikes, Mtbs, BMX. Liked them all. All great, well built bikes. Thankfully we have choice and its fantastic we have smaller brands like Salsa that innovate & do their own thing. Looks like they are just dipping their toe in the e bike market and have sensibly gone for market leaders with Bosch and Mahle respectively.