Took my RX with the narrow tires out in the SE Pennsylvania snowstorm yesterday. Dropped the pressure down into the 20 lb. range and found that it was super manageable and more fun than a barrel of monkeys! First time snow riding and I can't wait to do it again. Almost 55 years old and I feel like a kid again on this puppy.
RX or RX Pro - would you switch?
- Thread starter keninvic
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AHicks
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Just watch for the slick spots! They'll have you on your butt in a heart beat! Especially if there's some light snow covering them....
Mesosphere
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I'm considering the 'Rize' model, just how bad is the Rise X (I assume it is fairly similar) at climbing hills compared to the RX? I live in a fairly hilly area (Appalachia), so they will be a part of my commute (primary intended use) and joy rides (bonus use). On the other hand, the price jump to the mid drive RX is $900 (and it isn't in stock currently), but I don't want to spend $1700 on the 'Rize' if it won't climb hills reasonably effectively.
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I don't think you can call the the X and the RX all that similar. The RX is a much more powerful mid-drive and the X is a hub-drive. You need to ask X owners about it's hill climbing capabilities, not the RX owners. We can only guess about the X.
Mesosphere
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I agree. To clarify, I meant the "Rize X" and "Rize" are probably fairly similar in their hill-climbing ability (for exactly the reason you mentioned). For me, the choice is between the "Rize" (hate this branding! call it the "Rize Vanilla" or ... something!) and the "Rize RX". So basically the skinny tire analog to what @theemartymac owns (he has a "Rize X" and a "Rize RX pro").
Edit: One probably impactful difference is the Rize X has a 750W motor and the Rize only has 500W, so even @theemartymac's experience may not be a perfect analog. On the other hand, I'm fairly lightweight at 170 lbs and the skinny tires may be more efficient on (paved) hills?
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okievision
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as a 265lb owner of a Rize X, its a great bike and would make a super commuter. these 26 x 4 tires are a pleasure to cruise with and soak up road issues with ease. I know youre interested in the skinnier tire but the fat boy can do it all lol.
Mesosphere
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How hilly is the area you live in?
People sure do seem to love their fat-bikes! I've been commuting almost exclusively by non-e-bike for the past ~4 years on 2-inch hybrid road tires. I really haven't had any problem with rolling comfort on them. This purchase has a very specific justification for me and that is as a commuter (so we don't have to buy a second car). We are looking for a new house, and there is a good chance that the commute will increase enough such that continuing to use my non-ebike will become even less ideal. Starting the day in the office all sweaty in the summer has never been great =)
I do also use my bike occasionally for pleasure. Usually, this involves towing a kid on ~10-15 mile rides (I have a two-seat trailer for the younger ones and a seat post attached ride behind for older ones), but primarily my bike riding is for transportation. Those joy rides usually only happen a handful of times per year.
Reading some of the posts about self-steering and sluggish steering with road-fat-tires by @AHicks and others has me thinking (even more than my intuition already told me), that fat-tires aren't right for me. Adding to that, there is a $300 price jump from the Rize to the Rize X. I'm not sure I want to pay that premium to solve a problem that I don't feel I have with ~2-inch tires. That said, I haven't completely ruled fat tires out =)
Mesosphere
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Thanks for the input guys.
How much of a struggle would a ~10% grade for ~0.3 miles be on a hub motor of your Rize X (the most difficult stretch of my would-be commute for the house we looked at today)? I assume if I'm able to maintain speed (and thus RPMs in the motor) it will be better than if I let myself stop.
How much of a struggle would a ~10% grade for ~0.3 miles be on a hub motor of your Rize X (the most difficult stretch of my would-be commute for the house we looked at today)? I assume if I'm able to maintain speed (and thus RPMs in the motor) it will be better than if I let myself stop.
AHicks
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Couldn't agree more.....
The tires that came stock (RX PRo) were gone within 100 miles, swapped for 3" street tires. Still pretty draggy, but they do ride better than a generic 2".
Mesosphere
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So just some back-of-the-envelope math... The hill in question is 40m over 0.3 miles. If I climb at 10 mph that is about 108 seconds. That means I'd be climbing at a rate of ~0.37 m/s. My rider+bike weight is ~105 kilos so assuming perfect efficiency I'd need at least 380W of power to maintain speed. I guess the question is, is the 500W motor efficient enough at 10MPH to give me 380W of KE for 2 minutes? If I drop down to 7 MPH the power needed drops to ~266W, but then presumably the efficiency of the motor has dropped too... Sure would be nice if I didn't have to go 3000 miles to test ride one of these =P
okievision
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and that is in fact exactly why I'm glad I have the big boys, I roll through stuff I'd never take a skinny tire bike through and still cruise effortlessly on the pavement but I agree if you're strictly a pavement rider, the narrower tires would be the best choice.
AHicks
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We have a new bike w/Bafang 500w that I installed an aftermarket controller on - with a display that show wattage in use real time (the second reason I replaced the controller). There's a pretty stiff hill nearby that I used to set the controller's max output to the motor. I weigh nearly double what you do (315lbs), and that motor has no trouble pulling 650w to climb this hill with authority. As I'm generally on 1000w+ stuff (that can accelerate while going straight up), I'm really impressed with this little 500. It's perky as hell! That said, I would not ask the 500 to do this for more than a couple of minutes. At that point it's going to need a few minutes at much lower load levels to catch it's breath.
In a perfect world, I would go 750w if there's any way. Just for the reserve power on tap - the same reason I generally go 1000w+ on my bikes..... -Al
Mesosphere
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Thanks, very helpful! A couple minutes of burst is probably all I need. I live in more of a hilly than a mountainous area. The peaks of the Appalachian mountains are pretty modest compared to most mountain ranges =)
I wish they sold the 750W motor without the fat tires. If they did I might pay for the upgrade just in case, but I'm really starting to think 500W might be good enough.
To what extent do you see it bog down on hills. Is there a speed below which it seems to have a difficult time recovering from? I guess it would depend how steep the hill is, if that is even how it behaves.
AHicks
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Keep in mind we're talking electric motors, not little 2 stroke motors that must be kept in a very narrow power band to make power. These electrics make good power until you stall them pretty much! I think they work best somewhere in the middle of their power band when it comes to big hills though - and that's probably to minimize heat build up, though I don't know that for sure.
If there's a problem with the hub drives it's that they don't have all of the available gearing the mid drives have. They're fixed at 5:1. From there, it about what gear you're in so you can make up for this when it comes to big hills.
The area you're describing would favor one of the new Ultra mid drives by a bunch if you could swing it.
Juiced I know has 750w hub with the smaller (non fatty) tires. That's just the first that comes to mind. Pretty sure there are others? -Al
If there's a problem with the hub drives it's that they don't have all of the available gearing the mid drives have. They're fixed at 5:1. From there, it about what gear you're in so you can make up for this when it comes to big hills.
The area you're describing would favor one of the new Ultra mid drives by a bunch if you could swing it.
Juiced I know has 750w hub with the smaller (non fatty) tires. That's just the first that comes to mind. Pretty sure there are others? -Al
Mesosphere
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I'd forgotten the Juiced crosscurrent had a 750W motor. I'd somewhat discounted that one in my mind after reading the forum posts on it. It seems like many owners weren't impressed with it's longevity. On the other hand, Rize hasn't really been around long enough to judge longevity one way or the other =)
The steep price Juiced is charging for replacement batteries also had me concerned ($1300 for 19.2 Ah). How feasible is it to get third party replacement batteries for these bikes? Or generally for maintenance of the e-bike parts (controller, battery, motor, sensors) are you at the mercy of the bike maker or can third parties be used (without too much trouble).
Mesosphere
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So I went ahead and ordered a 'Rize' model. I found a handy simulator thanks to one of @AHicks posts in another thread (https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html), and mapped out potential routes on mapmyrun.com (they have a hidden interface that shows the grade changes along the route). At my weight, the hub motor should have no trouble operating in a relatively high efficiency (>70%) range at speeds between 10-15 mph and be in little danger of overheating on all but the steepest (>10%) hills which are relatively rare and don't maintain that grade for very long. If I need to, I can up my pedaling effort to ~200W for these rare and short bursts and not really even heat up the motor significantly before cresting the hill.
The mid-drive would allow me to climb even steeper hills at slower speeds due to the higher low-end torque that the gearing could provide, but I had a difficult time finding a route this would be useful on in my area. On flat ground, the hub drive will provide plenty of acceleration off the line, so I don't really need gearing to help the motor with that either.
My interest was peaked in electric bikes after noticing the ~$800 bikes on Amazon a couple weeks ago, and my research had grudgingly sold me up to the $1700-$1900 range (Rize, Ride1up LMTd, Juiced CC). To go all the way up to $2600, the mid-drive would have had to buy me a lot, and I just couldn't see it... Not being available until June/July was also a pretty big turnoff. My bike should be here Monday!
The mid-drive would allow me to climb even steeper hills at slower speeds due to the higher low-end torque that the gearing could provide, but I had a difficult time finding a route this would be useful on in my area. On flat ground, the hub drive will provide plenty of acceleration off the line, so I don't really need gearing to help the motor with that either.
My interest was peaked in electric bikes after noticing the ~$800 bikes on Amazon a couple weeks ago, and my research had grudgingly sold me up to the $1700-$1900 range (Rize, Ride1up LMTd, Juiced CC). To go all the way up to $2600, the mid-drive would have had to buy me a lot, and I just couldn't see it... Not being available until June/July was also a pretty big turnoff. My bike should be here Monday!
AHicks
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Nice analysis. Congrats on the new bike decision!
Mesosphere
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Thanks! Your posts here and on other threads were among the most helpful.
okievision
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Congratulations, what color?
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