Rock Razor vs Moto X tires

[ChrisHudson]

After some opinions here. The more the merrier.


I’m looking at the R&M Nevo GX and Homage GX bikes. Both are kitted out as standard with the Rock Razor tires (all Australian spec).

Most of our riding is likely to be hard surface, gravel trails and the occasional detour into slightly more off-road type tracks. But nothing super muddy or hardcore forest trails.


I was wondering if anyone has some experience on these tires. Are they efficient in terms of rolling? Are they likely to increase battery usage? Do they make for a harsher ride?

The option would be to swap them for the Moto-X tires. Guessing these would be a smoother easier rolling ride. Maybe?


Anyway, any insight would be great.

Cheers.

 

[dblhelix]

After some opinions here. The more the merrier.


I’m looking at the R&M Nevo GX and Homage GX bikes. Both are kitted out as standard with the Rock Razor tires (all Australian spec).

Most of our riding is likely to be hard surface, gravel trails and the occasional detour into slightly more off-road type tracks. But nothing super muddy or hardcore forest trails.


I was wondering if anyone has some experience on these tires. Are they efficient in terms of rolling? Are they likely to increase battery usage? Do they make for a harsher ride?

The option would be to swap them for the Moto-X tires. Guessing these would be a smoother easier rolling ride. Maybe?




Anyway, any insight would be great.

Cheers.

Can’t make a direct comparison but put a lot of miles on Moto-X tires this summer. Including a fair amount off-road. Versatile tires, except for mud and sand. Not the beach, but I was on trails “resurfaced/repaired” with sand that proved tough to negotiate. OTOH, local riders told me mountain bikes with knob bikes also had a rough time. Hard not to recommend the Moto-X for the conditions you describe.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Are they (Rock Razors) efficient in terms of rolling? Are they likely to increase battery usage?

Chris ...
I live two minutes ebike ride from my local rail trail whose designers took a schizophrenic approach to trail surfacing - old railway rock ballast, soft sand, gravel, grass, clay and even crushed granite road base. Only the last - providing a smooth hard-packed surface - was suited to the Super Moto-X tyres which I had on my non-ebike folder (small 62-406 tyres and Rohloff).

I suspect that Victorian trails are not as poorly planned or constructed as 'mine'. Super Moto-X should do you fine (ditto the Rock Razors?). As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm more concerned with puncture resistance and hope to upgrade the Rock Razors on my ordered Homage GX to tubeless. Alternatively, I'll swap to Marathon Plus MTB which I have on my Trek Powerfly 5 eMTB; these tyres have a continuous block pattern in the centre of the tread and are quiet on the road.

Schwalbe rate all of their tyres for rolling resistance, grip, durability and puncture resistance. The Rock Razors are rated marginally superior for rolling resistance...

• Schwalbe Rock Razor
• Schwalbe Super Moto-X
• Schwalbe Marathon Plus MTB

... David

 

[ChrisHudson]

Thanks dblhelix and David. Much appreciated.

My brain is messing with me. On the one hand, I'm thinking that if I stick with the Rock Razors I can take the more off-road options as they present themselves. On the other, I'm thinking the Moto-X will be good enough for most of my situations. My dealer has said that a few customers had the same dilemma but continued with the Rock Razors as they they were 'smoother' than they had anticipated.

 

[DonGod]

Interesting discussion.

Since two months I have a Nevo GH 2018, that came with the Super Moto X. It is the GreenGuard/DoubleDefense/wired version, that has a high protection rating in Schwalbes own rating system.

I ride this bike much more offroad than I anticipated, but I am far away from using it as a mountain bike, what I need is a tire that can handle forest and gravel, smaller/medium sized stones or roots. Looking for a typcial allrounder, but I do not want to give up too much of the Super Moto's excellent road capabilities and comfort.

So far the Super Moto's were able to handle what I threw at them offroad, but I had the impression, that they are sometimes really at their limit, specifically on gravel. Ok, I am much more careful and slow when riding offroad than any dedicated mountain biker would ever accept.

So I looked into other options from Schwalbe. Started investigating the Rock Razors, as the GX versions from R&M come with these tires. After the research I am a bit surprised they picked these tires, as they seem to be specialized on dry trails and many mountain bikers only consider them as rear tire. My LBS recommends them as being good, but as allrounder and with priority on protection he still prefers the Smart Sam and Smart Sam plus, of course the versions with the high protection layers.

Coming back to the Rock Razors, I think being semi/slicks they have very good rolling capabilities and there is one version which also has good protection; the super gravity. No clue which version R&M puts on their bikes, but I am pretty sure, that they will not disappoint and if their protection is not good enough, I would swap them later for Super Moto's or Smart Sams with GreenGuard&DoubleDefense.

 

[dadanka]

{EDITED on 18th Nov 2018}

Hi!

I've a supercharger GT Touring with Super Moto X, the only one I personally tested of this comparison.

For winter times, I was looking for a better off road grip than Super Moto X but with good rolling and good road grip too.
So it seems there is no a perfect choice for who needs
- Size 62-584, 27,5x2,40
- Good Off Road + Good Road Grip
- Very Good Rolling

I use my bike :
75% paved roads
15% gravel
10% forrest off road (with mud)

I hope this list can be helpful for who own super moto x but needs to change them for more off road grip without loose to much road grip and rolling, obviously taking into consideration that rankings based on pure numbers and laboratory tests do not have a certain value, as instead only personal experience can dare.

Starting with our tires, this is the evaluation that schwalbe gives to the tire mounted on our R&M

Super Moto X

Pros
- Discrete rolling (if properly inflated)
- Is a Ballon Tyre (62-584, 27,5x2,40) offering additional suspension and back relief
- Good Road Grip
- Good durability
- Super protection
- 27.5+"

Cons
- Low Off Road grip especially where road is wet and mud, sure lower than Schwalbe's website indication ( 4/6 ?!? ).
- Not the best protection (i had to add a inside protection layer)
(edited: this is a mistaken info, protection is super, my bike shop sold me a further useless protection layer, shame on them)

Remaining in Scwhalbe 's world I have compared other options, all 27,5 (In this comparison I've not considered the tubeless-non tubeless condition).
I'd like a tire that will suit all terrain condition but not with a very relevant bundling, better off road grip han Super Moto X, good rolling, sufficient road grip.
These first 4 tires here below are more off road oriented:

Rock Razor
known as a good back tire, standard on some R&M models, googling it seems prefer light and dry off road trails not wet and muddy ones.

Pros
- Discrete rolling, if speedgrip version, but not the best at all
- Very good Off road grip if supergravity version
- very good protection if supergravity version
Cons
- Sufficient Road grip
- Not optimal durability
- A little little bit smaller than Super Moto X (2.35")


Smart Sam

A great tire that does not excel in anything but has fantastic durability and protection. Rolling and road grip sufficient. Valid off road grip.

Pros
- Same Super Moto X rolling (?)
- good Off road grip
- Optimal protection
- Very good durability
Cons
- Sufficient Road grip
- Smaller than Super Moto X (2.25")

Racing Ralph 2019

A rear tire designed to have a super rolling with addix speed, one of the best for a Schwalbe off road tire. Road grip is not the best but is decent and for sure is better than Super Moto X on off roads.

Pros
- Super rolling
- Good Off road grip

Cons
- Discrete protection but not super
- Low Road grip
- Not optimal durability
- Smaller than Super Moto X (2.25")

Racing Ray 2019

A front tire designed to have a very good rolling with addix speedgrip. Off road Grip is super, road grip could be better.

Pros
- Super rolling
- Very good Off road grip
- Discrete durability

Cons
- Discrete protection but not super
- Sufficient Road Grip
- Smaller than Super Moto X (2.25")


And now the marathon family, tires for touring with a lot of protection, considering my need to improve off road grip i will not write about the great Marathon Mondial (more road oriented) but exclusively of

Marathon Plus MTB

Pros
- Good Road grip
- Discrete Off road grip for a touring tire.
- Super protection and durability

Cons
- Very low rolling (i cannot consider this as a rear tire)
- Smaller than Super Moto X (2.25")


Last but not least, Schwalbe's new gravel tires

G-One Bite
They seems fantastic on the chart but looking at reviews on the web it seems they are not so good on mud or wet forrest trails, contrary to what advertised. Anyway if they were available in a bigger size, sure i'll go for them. This is the more aggressive of the three gravel tires:

Pros
- rolling, a little bit better than Super Moto X
- Very good Road grip
- Super Off road grip
- Super protection
Cons
- A lot smaller than Super Moto X (2.10")
- Low durability

G-One Allround

I think this is a similarSuper Moto x profile... but better (for me)! (better rolling, less durability).
If i would need an allround tire more road oriented, well this G One Allround beats them all.

Pros
- Very good rolling
- Good Road grip
- Sufficient Off road grip
- Super protection
Cons
- A little bit smaller than Super Moto X (2.25")
- Low durability

Conclusions:

For who is seeking a touring oriented config, actual front and rear super moto x is a great choice! Is a tire that has decent rolling, super protection and good durability. More it is 2.40", 27.5+ balloon tire, so comfort (we know) it is super.

For a tour bike a little bit more aggressive but still more tour oriented, I would consider something of the Marathon line, mostly if you are looking for protection and durability:
Marathon MTB Plus 2.25" the front and a new Gravel tire like G One Allround 2.25" for rear.

Who, like me, is in need of more offroad grip without transform our tour bike definitively in a MTB:
if you are looking for more rolling a Racing Ray 2.25" for front and a Racing Ralph 2.25" for rear,
if your are looking for more protection and durabilty a double Smart Sam 2.25"
...or a Smart Sam on Front and a Rock Razor on rear.


Cheers!

 

[DonGod]

I think we have to make our own experience. Interpreting small differences in Schwalbes internal tire rating system cannot replace trying them.

Having compared Schwalbes ratings several times now, I have concluded, that I will not make a decision based on a difference of 0.5 or 1 points. I have no clue, how these points translate into real world experience.

With 75% road usage I would not think a second and keep the Super Motos, even more so if you value the extra comfort that you get from the baloon build.

My use pattern is 50% road, rest off/road, therefore I am considering a nobby tire, but I am not yet sold on it.

If I would ride 75% or more off road I would buy a dedicated mountain bike.

P.S. I remember a quote from Heiko Mueller (R&M co/founder) that the extra comfort from the Super Motos is very convincing.

PPS. My Super Motos are 62 584 and have the GreenGuard, DoubleDefense build. 6 in Schwalbes protection rating.

 

[ChrisHudson]

Interesting discussion.

Since two months I have a Nevo GH 2018, that came with the Super Moto X. It is the GreenGuard/DoubleDefense/wired version, that has a high protection rating in Schwalbes own rating system.

I ride this bike much more offroad than I anticipated, but I am far away from using it as a mountain bike, what I need is a tire that can handle forest and gravel, smaller/medium sized stones or roots. Looking for a typcial allrounder, but I do not want to give up too much of the Super Moto's excellent road capabilities and comfort.

So far the Super Moto's were able to handle what I threw at them offroad, but I had the impression, that they are sometimes really at their limit, specifically on gravel. Ok, I am much more careful and slow when riding offroad than any dedicated mountain biker would ever accept.

So I looked into other options from Schwalbe. Started investigating the Rock Razors, as the GX versions from R&M come with these tires. After the research I am a bit surprised they picked these tires, as they seem to be specialized on dry trails and many mountain bikers only consider them as rear tire. My LBS recommends them as being good, but as allrounder and with priority on protection he still prefers the Smart Sam and Smart Sam plus, of course the versions with the high protection layers.

Coming back to the Rock Razors, I think being semi/slicks they have very good rolling capabilities and there is one version which also has good protection; the super gravity. No clue which version R&M puts on their bikes, but I am pretty sure, that they will not disappoint and if their protection is not good enough, I would swap them later for Super Moto's or Smart Sams with GreenGuard&DoubleDefense.

Thanks. I too read that bit about only being used for the rear. Weird. I'll probably end up going with the Rock Razors that come with the bike and then look at trying others later on.

 

[webcurl]

I got my Supercharger GX to come with Schwalbe Marathon Mondial 50-584 on front and Super Moto-X 70-584 on rear, with a G-One Speed 60-584 as lightweight spare for touring (weighs 500g), mine came with Alex MD40 rims (40mm), yours may come with 35mm rims. I'm not sure if i'd like the Mondial on the rear on mine but it was fine on the front.
This guy swears by the Mondials and even likes the Marathon Plus MTB's:

He's obtained vast amounts of longevity with the Mondials.
Currently i have Marathon Plus MTB 57-584 on front and MotoX on rear, when i'm finished with the MotoX or before I may switch to:
Marathon Mondial 50-584 on front & Marathon Plus MTB 57-584 on rear, i know rolling resistance won't be as good but i'll just re-charge more often
Mondials are excellent, just the width is not recommended on my rims.

 

[webcurl]

Wrong video (4 years later where he has the MTB's), here's the one describing his Mondials at 8:15 :

 

[DonGod]

I am still undecided, whether to go knobby.

Saw a video of a guy that took the Super Motos on offroad rides very similar to mine (forrest roads, gravel, roots etc.) and doing absolutely fine. A video review of the same tires on a Charger Mixte indicates the same. Maybe I keep them.

 

[bob armani]

Chris ...
I live two minutes ebike ride from my local rail trail whose designers took a schizophrenic approach to trail surfacing - old railway rock ballast, soft sand, gravel, grass, clay and even crushed granite road base. Only the last - providing a smooth hard-packed surface - was suited to the Super Moto-X tyres which I had on my non-ebike folder (small 62-406 tyres and Rohloff).

I suspect that Victorian trails are not as poorly planned or constructed as 'mine'. Super Moto-X should do you fine (ditto the Rock Razors?). As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm more concerned with puncture resistance and hope to upgrade the Rock Razors on my ordered Homage GX to tubeless. Alternatively, I'll swap to Marathon Plus MTB which I have on my Trek Powerfly 5 eMTB; these tyres have a continuous block pattern in the centre of the tread and are quiet on the road.

Schwalbe rate all of their tyres for rolling resistance, grip, durability and puncture resistance. The Rock Razors are rated marginally superior for rolling resistance...

• Schwalbe Rock Razor
• Schwalbe Super Moto-X
• Schwalbe Marathon Plus MTB

... David

David- Just to confirm: You have stated the the MARATHON PLUS MTB are much quieter on a road surface than perhaps traditional MTB tyres? Whenever I ride on a road/paved surface, all of my MTB tyres are far from quiet. Curious.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Whenever I ride on a road/paved surface, all of my MTB tyres are far from quiet. Curious.

Bob ...
Yes, that’s my experience on hard surfaces (concrete cycleways and tarred roads). I started with the wider (57-622) tyres but now use the slightly narrower (54-622) - there’s a story behind why I changed which has to do with the near-impossibility of fitting the Marathons to my Trek Powerfly 5’s rims.

Having made this observation, I must quality it by admitting to very limited experience with MTB tyres but, of course, I’ve often heard the sound of an approaching swarm of infuriated bees that more traditional block patterns make.
... David

 

[bob armani]

Bob ...
Yes, that’s my experience on hard surfaces (concrete cycleways and tarred roads). I started with the wider (57-622) tyres but now use the slightly narrower (54-622) - there’s a story in why I changed which has to do with the near-impossibility of fitting the Marathons to my Trek Powerfly 5’s rims.

Having made this observation, I must quality it by admitting to very limited experience with MTB tyres but, of course, I’ve often heard the sound of an approaching swarm of infuriated bees that more traditional block patterns make.
... David

Great! Thanks for clarifying.

 

[ChrisHudson]

What I’ll aim to do is post my thoughts after a few rides on the razors.

 

[dadanka]

After seeing that the super moto x today are disappeared from the ballon section of schwalbe's site and the presence of some new model I made a phone call to Schwalbe Italy and I spoke with a very kind and helpful person who gave me half an hour of his time for a lovable chat about tires.
Super Moto X do not come out of their price list, webmaster most likely forgot to add the balloon bike tag.
So I decided to take advantage of the moment and ask a couple of questions about the tires that most could fit for me. Schwalbe's representative told me scores indications should be taken into consideration but not as if they were a bible. He advises me G One allround both front and back, but we also agreed that only a direct test can obviously be a precise reference, so I'll start with buying a G One Bite (54-584 · 27.5 x 2.10, 650B · SnakeSkin, TLE, E-25) to put in front and I'll keep the original super moto x (62-584 · 27.5 x 2.40, 650B · DD, GreenGuard, E-50) on the rear in order to have more offroad grip on the front and preserve the ballon bike cushioning on the back. After this test I will understand better and choose the next config.

 

[webcurl]

After seeing that the super moto x today are disappeared from the ballon section of schwalbe's site and the presence of some new model I made a phone call to Schwalbe Italy and I spoke with a very kind and helpful person who gave me half an hour of his time for a lovable chat about tires.
Super Moto X do not come out of their price list, webmaster most likely forgot to add the balloon bike tag.
So I decided to take advantage of the moment and ask a couple of questions about the tires that most could fit for me. Schwalbe's representative told me scores indications should be taken into consideration but not as if they were a bible. He advises me G One allround both front and back, but we also agreed that only a direct test can obviously be a precise reference, so I'll start with buying a G One Bite (54-584 · 27.5 x 2.10, 650B · SnakeSkin, TLE, E-25) to put in front and I'll keep the original super moto x (62-584 · 27.5 x 2.40, 650B · DD, GreenGuard, E-50) on the rear in order to have more offroad grip on the front and preserve the ballon bike cushioning on the back. After this test I will understand better and choose the next config.

G-One Bite 54-584 weighs 550g, Moto-X 62-584 weighs 1125g. I'm guessing the extra weight goes to durability, extra width, it being a wired tire & extra small amount of protection on the Moto-X. But you did say you had to put a liner in, did you get many punctures, i'm curious as to what kind?

 

[dadanka]

G-One Bite 54-584 weighs 550g, Moto-X 62-584 weighs 1125g. I'm guessing the extra weight goes to durability, extra width, it being a wired tire & extra small amount of protection on the Moto-X. But you did say you had to put a liner in, did you get many punctures, i'm curious as to what kind?

Hi it's not me the one who talk you about put a liner Just want a front tire with more off road grip...

 

[webcurl]

Hi!

I've a supercharger GT Touring with Super Moto X, the only one I personally tested of this comparison.

For winter times, I was looking for a better off road grip than Super Moto X but with good rolling and good road grip too.
So it seems there is no a perfect choice for who needs
- Size 62-584, 27,5x2,40
- Good Off Road + Good Road Grip
- Very Good Rolling

Super Moto X
Pros
- Good rolling if properly inflated (2,5)
- Is a Ballon Tyre (62-584, 27,5x2,40) offering additional suspension and back relief
- Good Road Grip
- Good durability
Cons
- Insufficient Off Road grip especially where road is wet and mud
- Not the best protection (i had to add a inside protection layer)

 

[dadanka]

Sorry my English is not good, but never stop learning... I put a red line but telling that 'super moto x' has an insufficient off road grip is actually affirming an obviousness. There is no need for punctures, if a tire is not designed for muddy roads or roots and rocks. I put an extra protection layer just because i doesn't know this tire and my bike shop sold me a further useless protection...