Rad law suit

thats why I bought a dt-swiss hub you can change the end caps to make it work for a bunch of different bikes.
Boy have I ever taken advantage of that, too. My Envoy is QR Boost... which is 141mm in the rear. Use a Boost hub and put on QR end caps and done. Also I had a wheelset built for my vintage Apostate enduro (a 1999 Intense Tracer) and needed QR. The wheel builder accidentally made them with thru axle. All he had to do was send me the right end caps otherwise it would have been a tragedy.
 
It is difficult to find exact statistics on how often a properly tightened front wheel falls off, as it is a rare occurrence. However, it is important to note that a properly tightened front wheel is crucial for safe operation of a bicycle.

The quick release (QR) mechanism is designed to allow for easy removal and installation of the wheel, but it is important to make sure that it is properly tightened before riding. If the lever is not fully closed and tightened, the wheel can become loose during riding and cause a dangerous accident.

In your case, it is concerning that you had to use a lot of force to release the QR lever, even though it was properly tightened. This could be a sign of a malfunctioning or worn-out QR mechanism. It is recommended to have the QR mechanism checked and possibly replaced by a professional bike mechanic.

While it is understandable that you may not be too worried about your wheel falling off, it is important to prioritize safety when riding a bicycle. Checking and properly tightening the QR mechanism before each ride can prevent accidents and ensure a safe and enjoyable ride.
For the record, I have no trouble releasing the QR lever. Once released it is still not very easy to remove the wheel. I have to unscrew the lever, remove the axel, and then pound on the wheel a bit with the palm of my hand to get it to drop out. Not a big deal but I can't imagine the wheel popping out on it's own after having to do all that.
 
We have had trouble with the 32 spoke wheel on the back of the tandem but dt-swill does not make a 36 or 40 hole hub. white industries does and its only 400.00 but I dont know if they make it in a 148mm width I think only 145mm.
 
For the record, I have no trouble releasing the QR lever. Once released it is still not very easy to remove the wheel. I have to unscrew the lever, remove the axel, and then pound on the wheel a bit with the palm of my hand to get it to drop out. Not a big deal but I can't imagine the wheel popping out on it's own after having to do all that.
Is that because of the lawyer lips on the bottom of the dropouts, maybe? They are the little tabs on the bottom that are there to keep a loose QR skewer from letting a wheel come out unless you really loosen up the skewer past the edge of the lips.

EDIT: Reading more carefully, you're saying you remove the QR skewer. Sounds like you just have a tight fit. No big deal.
 
Looking at this complicated suit and the tragic underlying facts from the vantage of a SoCal beach town, using 3 different lenses. Where's all this headed?

Lens 1. A responsible public safety official (PSO) witnessing an obvious explosion in irresponsible ebike use -- mainly by kids and tourists, but everywhere an ebike can roll with little rider effort. This PSO's under a lot of pressure to do something visible about it from drivers, pedestrians, law enforcement, and responsible cyclists of all kinds.

Lens 2. A parent who doesn't want to see anyone get hurt — especially the kids — but also doesn't want to see their kid socially isolated.

Lens 3. A responsible ebiker, driver, and pedestian who greatly values his trottle as an intermittent safety feature and knee-saver. (Just my personal values. Let's not start another T-word war.)

Lens 1: What to do from the PSO's perspective given the legal, political, and enforcement realities on the ground? Cycling's generally valued here. An outright ebike ban would never fly, but the current ebike situation's no longer sustainable. More ebike-involved injuries and fatalities and liability will come.

Trying to game this out, I think we're in store for...
1. A relatively easy-to-enforce throttle ban. You're either pedaling or you're not, and you can't coast against obvious resistance for long.
2. Much tighter restrictions on motor power, age, and access, but much harder to enforce.

Teens, pre-teens, and younger kids are simply ill-equipped to handle a vehicle with the acceleration and potential momentum of an ebike, and adult tourists aren't much better. Take away the throttle and much of the assist, as the EU does, and few of the offenders would touch an ebike.

Yes, responsible ebike riders and throttle users like me would suffer, but relatively small price to pay from the PSO's perspective. And yes, the PSO would sooner or later know the EU precedent.

Lens 2: Parents will be all over the map on measures like these, and around here, they have power. The PSO will face a tricky political calculation.

Lens 3: Gonna be really pissed if I have to remove my throttle. But I also drive and walk here, and something clearly has be done.

I am not advocating a throttle ban! Just trying to game out where this mass attractive nuisance event might be headed in a hotbed of ebike misuse. My LBS owner, who sells ebikes of all kinds, sees at least a throttle ban in California's future — only because of the droves of irresponsible riders the ability to pass on pedaling attracts.

Sorry, just sayin'.
 
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I am not advocating a throttle ban! Just trying to game out where this mass attractive nuisance event might be headed in a hotbed of ebike misuse. My LBS owner, who sells ebikes of all kinds, sees at least a throttle ban in California's future — only because of the droves of irresponsible riders the ability to pass on pedaling attracts.
I'm hearing similar rumblings from this small mountain town in Washington state.

Further, I've got decent connections to a number of land management agencies here, and also connections to a number of nonprofits that advocate for trails. What I find interesting is that there is zero interest in a blanket e-bike ban, but at the same time there is wide acknowledgement that throttle equipped bikes are a growing safety problem. Well, "zero interest" might be a little too generous, but for all practical purposes zero interest describes the situation.
 
Trying to game this out, I think we're in store for...
1. A relatively easy-to-enforce throttle ban. You're either pedaling or you're not, and you can't coast against obvious resistance for long.
2. Much tighter restrictions on motor power, age, and access, but much harder to enforce.
1. Since the kids were whizzing down a hill, throttle or no throttle is irrelevant to this scenario. I see no reason to even consider it in this context. Also, the existence of a throttle is only an issue to people who identify with cycling as a recreational activity, which is a subset of cyclists, never mind the general population of which they are a tiny, albeit vocal, fraction. The new population of ebikers who don't come from cycling typically find the objection incomprehensible. Utility (cargo) cyclists especially are not on board with the prejudice, although this is not universal.

2. Same deal as #1 with regard to motor power. The fast downhill means that motor power was irrelevant and almost certainly not in use at all. No reason to link motor power to this episode.

What IS relevant is proper brakes and bicycle design. Things that were actually cited in the lawsuit. I don't see that coming from legislation though. USA doesn't work that way. The way we do work is manufacturers add them so their legal dept is satisfied they have covered that product liability base. THAT is where this is going.

The things you are concerned about are primarily argued over only in ebike forums only. Ask a new ebiker who isn't personally invested in jihad and they wonder what the fuss is about. A great way to look at a more mature market insofar as utility cycling is concerned is to look at the Far East, where heavy bikes have been used for utility purposes for years and sales are literally an order of magnitude larger. Throttles are everywhere. Pitchforks, torches and the kinds of sermons we see on the subject in the West... not so much.

Ebikes and their use are an irresistible market force. The toothpaste is already out of the tube.

EDIT: Note I am not speaking above about recreational/trails use. Different animal.
 
1. Since the kids were whizzing down a hill, throttle or no throttle is irrelevant to this scenario. I see no reason to even consider it in this context. Also, the existence of a throttle is only an issue to people who identify with cycling as a recreational activity, which is a subset of cyclists, never mind the general population of which they are a tiny, albeit vocal, fraction. The new population of ebikers who don't come from cycling typically find the objection incomprehensible. Utility (cargo) cyclists especially are not on board with the prejudice, although this is not universal.

2. Same deal as #1 with regard to motor power. The fast downhill means that motor power was irrelevant and almost certainly not in use at all. No reason to link motor power to this episode.

What IS relevant is proper brakes and bicycle design. Things that were actually cited in the lawsuit. I don't see that coming from legislation though. USA doesn't work that way. The way we do work is manufacturers add them so their legal dept is satisfied they have covered that product liability base. THAT is where this is going.

The things you are concerned about are primarily argued over only in ebike forums only. Ask a new ebiker who isn't personally invested in jihad and they wonder what the fuss is about. A great way to look at a more mature market insofar as utility cycling is concerned is to look at the Far East, where heavy bikes have been used for utility purposes for years and sales are literally an order of magnitude larger. Throttles are everywhere. Pitchforks, torches and the kinds of sermons we see on the subject in the West... not so much.

Ebikes and their use are an irresistible market force. The toothpaste is already out of the tube.

EDIT: Note I am not speaking above about recreational/trails use. Different animal.
Matt, I always value your perspectives. I did zoom out from the particulars of this case. And I did it because
(1) There will only be more ebike-involved deaths, injuries, and lawsuits, and news coverage will be quick to latch onto the ebike angle, however irrelevant.
(2) The growing prevalence of untrained/irresponsible young riders will only add to the medical, legal, and PR carnage.
(3) All of this will add more heat than light to the inevitable local and state regulatory discussions to come.

Item (2) has everything to do with this case. And Carlsbad has already stepped up regulation and enforcement.

To be clear, I really want utility ebiking to flourish. And I really don't want irrational throttle and power restrictions any more than you do.

I just worried out loud that the throttle will look like the lowest-hanging fruit to public safety regulators with a growing public safety problem on their hands and growing pressure to get some visible results. You and I will both be casualties.
 
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From an old fart's perspective, I see throttles as a tool, enabling many other "old farts", and possibly a BUNCH of others with less than stellar health/bodies, with the confidence to get off the couch and go ride a bike for a few hours.

Take away the throttles, the "ace in the hole" for MANY riders, and the trails won't be as busy. Go for it....
 
I'm such a danger on a bike at 9 mph with my throttle. The 1000 W Mac12t would only go 26 mph on a flat, but could cross a 6 lane highway in 10 seconds. Scandalous. I should ride a wheelchair, only no sidewalks out there. The red light won't cycle either, for a mere bicycle or wheelchair.
My bike has become so useless with a 750 w motor, I'm re-activating my 4200 lb Ford. Hasn't moved since 2008.
 
I say we get the NRA to back throttles... If they can keep assault weapons legal, a throttle will be like a BB gun. 🙃

That said I've yet to hear a single news story of injury or death blamed on an ebike throttle. And really the only people against them are the narrow thinking, self proclaimed experienced enthusiasts that never used one... not concerned parents or anyone else.
I think y'all are getting way ahead of yourselves.
 
Would it be less of a tragedy if the girl driving the bike had pedaled their way to the top of the hill using the highest level of PAS? Certainly the throttle doesn't add any more power than that? From there it was all downhill and as mentioned no power was probably being applied. The whole situation could have been avoided with a modicum of adult supervision before they set out to ensure that the bike was in good order and that they had an idea of how to operate it.

I see it every time I come on this forum that some people think that "it is just like riding a bike" and they may not have done so since they were young and have 0 mechanical ability to boot. I suppose that logging on here is a good start towards learning something about the ins and outs of e bicycle ownership but just think of all those that don't or won't do anything about learning anything and just get on and go for it. Sure RAD and their budget clones provide the means for the gen pop to get on an eBike but plenty of knuckle heads go to the local shop and buy name brand bikes for twice as much and still don't have a clue and only some shops provide any sort of education to their customers. End result is more lawsuits and less accountability.

Carry on......
 
I think we all need to face reality and accept that the Heroic Wild West Era of e-bikes is drawing to a close. More regulation is inevitable at this point in time.

Unfortunate accidents like the one that started this thread, e-bike battery fires, and continuing bad publicity make this a losing battle. I think the choice we have is not whether more regulation will come or not, but how much and by whom.
 
I think we all need to face reality and accept that the Heroic Wild West Era of e-bikes is drawing to a close. More regulation is inevitable at this point in time.

Unfortunate accidents like the one that started this thread, e-bike battery fires, and continuing bad publicity make this a losing battle. I think the choice we have is not whether more regulation will come or not, but how much and by whom.
Batteries... Yes. Already being proposed in NYC.
Speed limits... Probably and there is some need in certain situations
Throttles... I doubt it
 
I think we all need to face reality and accept that the Heroic Wild West Era of e-bikes is drawing to a close. More regulation is inevitable at this point in time.

Unfortunate accidents like the one that started this thread, e-bike battery fires, and continuing bad publicity make this a losing battle. I think the choice we have is not whether more regulation will come or not, but how much and by whom.
Who checks the checkers who get their checks from checkered sources ? :rolleyes:
 
Wife and I have e-bikes and grandkids, we and their parents do not allow the kids to ride them. Ages 13 to 3 years old. Parents are liable in this case IMO.
The manual does state that riders must be 16 and over. Do we need a sticker on the seat?!?
 
From an old fart's perspective, I see throttles as a tool, enabling many other "old farts", and possibly a BUNCH of others with less than stellar health/bodies, with the confidence to get off the couch and go ride a bike for a few hours.

Take away the throttles, the "ace in the hole" for MANY riders, and the trails won't be as busy. Go for it....
Absolutely — I'm one of those old farts, and I thank my throttle every day.

My concern is that regulators will see a throttle ban as an easy way out, whatever the collateral damage. Pretty sure a throttle ban would have a visible effect on the ebike problem here, too.

Best solution? Probably not, but best solutions aren't what we usually get.
 
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Would it be less of a tragedy if the girl driving the bike had pedaled their way to the top of the hill using the highest level of PAS? Certainly the throttle doesn't add any more power than that? From there it was all downhill ..

it’s an interesting question. if it wasn’t an eBike, would they have even GOTTEN to the top of the hill in that configuration? a young girl with a passenger? i think not. would they have done so with a 250w mid-drive? also probably not. whether the throttle mattered or not probably has more to do with the PAS settings than anything else, but kids LOVE things that go fast when you push buttons. IMO removing the requirement to pedal - and pedal HARD - to go up a steep hill greatly increases the chances of a kid going up said hill, and probably makes if possible to do so with a passenger.

around here kids do crazy s*it like ride skateboards in the road down 25% grades sitting on the board. do you know what limits the total risk? the fact that for every trip down you have to walk back up a steep f’n hill! add a motor and you get five times as many rides and five times the risk.
 
it’s an interesting question. if it wasn’t an eBike, would they have even GOTTEN to the top of the hill in that configuration? a young girl with a passenger? i think not. would they have done so with a 250w mid-drive? also probably not. whether the throttle mattered or not probably has more to do with the PAS settings than anything else, but kids LOVE things that go fast when you push buttons. IMO removing the requirement to pedal - and pedal HARD - to go up a steep hill greatly increases the chances of a kid going up said hill, and probably makes if possible to do so with a passenger.

around here kids do crazy s*it like ride skateboards in the road down 25% grades sitting on the board. do you know what limits the total risk? the fact that for every trip down you have to walk back up a steep f’n hill! add a motor and you get five times as many rides and five times the risk.
Exactly and sadly my point. As every parent knows, kids go through a terrifying phase of new-found mobility with zero judgment at 1-2 years of age. Put pre-teens on an ebike with no adults watching, and it happens all over again.
 
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