Rad law suit

[m@Robertson]

I just found a product image that has no background obscuring anything and bright lighting. Its a vertical dropout. I'd have been very surprised if it was anything else.

https://cdn.accentuate.io/6583367336032/1651165588819/US-RadRunner2-Green-Right-View.png?v=0

This is so commonly done I don't blame Rad for doing it, but its such a long-known problem it was only a matter of time before a lawsuit came about over the issue. That article I originally linked was from 2016 and was a more recent arrival in terms of defining the problem. BTW google 'lawyer lips' if you are not familiar with them. I would imagine the Rad forks must have them.

 

[JRA]

One fault I do see is that I always put the quick release lever on the brake side of the fork and as shown in the pic above it is the opposite which I am not saying is the bike involved in the accident? Not sure if it really makes any difference as it is the correct amount of tension that is applied to it that assures it will not come out as the lawyer lips that should slow things down if it does. So many new riders don't understand how a quick release works IMNSHO and in this age of online sale bikes it is at least a good thing that youtube is around for guidance if anyone cares to look for information on the correct way to do it.

 

[antboy]

Maybe I am seeing it wrong but looks like a sloping dropout to me?
View attachment 130994
View attachment 130995
I also missed where it said that the front wheel came off vis a vis out of the dropouts to begin with? The way I read it was that they experienced a speed wobble effect that I would attribute to the small wheels and 11yr old girl arms on the handlebars compounded by the weight the other girl on the back going downhill and not being able to brake properly?

100% it's a skewer with obvious offset from the photo...

Looked up the EBR review (where the pic is from) - "135mm Hub Spacing, 9mm Axle with Release Skewer" (and the same as the RR 2).

 

[antboy]

I just found a product image that has no background obscuring anything and bright lighting. Its a vertical dropout. I'd have been very surprised if it was anything else.

https://cdn.accentuate.io/6583367336032/1651165588819/US-RadRunner2-Green-Right-View.png?v=0

This is so commonly done I don't blame Rad for doing it, but its such a long-known problem it was only a matter of time before a lawsuit came about over the issue. That article I originally linked was from 2016 and was a more recent arrival in terms of defining the problem. BTW google 'lawyer lips' if you are not familiar with them. I would imagine the Rad forks must have them.

I think the pic I posted from the EBR review shows more clearly, even with the QR, that it's a closed, offset dropout.

I mean, you can clearly see the green fork underneath the QR. If it were a vertical dropout, the slot would be an inverted U shape, not circular, and we see the bare steel of the disc brake, as opposed to the continuous green paint of the rest of the fork - using lawyer lips

 

[fooferdoggie]

I would think thats more about Rad's legal department trying to insulate them against lawsuits... but in this case it may have helped attract one. I personally would have no issues with minors riding ebikes. I rode everywhere as a kid including miles down El Camino Real in the Bay Area to/from a job. And up/down the Coastal Range at some pretty extreme speeds on the weekends. I even crashed once on the downhill. My parents never even thought about suing anyone. I crashed the bike. The bike didn't crash me.

QR on a fork with a disk brake is USUALLY prevented from being an issue at high speed with putting the fork dropouts angled forward. I'd bet money the Chinese didn't bother with that and used old-school vertical dropouts. Which is fine so long as you keep enough tension on the QR bolt. But you can't control whether that happens when consumers who don't pay attention to basic maintenance are factored in.

Road bikes heading towards using through-axles, but why? - CyclingTips

The recent introduction of road disc bikes is ushering in a variety of new technologies and “standards” that buyers must come to terms with. One of the more controversial refinements involves through-axle systems that complicate wheel changes and make things like fork-mounted roof racks and...

cyclingtips.com

but did you ride a 65# bike that can do 20+mph on its own?

 

[EMGX]

Sorry for their loss but at this point they are just lawyers doing what lawyers do. Nothing new to see here.

 

[Alaskan]

screen shot off Rad tech page with video of how to replace a fork on the Rad Rover. Clearly a straight up and down dropout.

 

[m@Robertson]

I think the pic I posted from the EBR review shows more clearly, even with the QR, that it's a closed, offset dropout.

I mean, you can clearly see the green fork underneath the QR. If it were a vertical dropout, the slot would be an inverted U shape, not circular, and we see the bare steel of the disc brake, as opposed to the continuous green paint of the rest of the fork - using lawyer lips

Thats not a circular shape. There's a break in the bottom - the black segment - which is the QR dropout and thats your inverted U. A 'vertical' dropout doesn't have to be dead on vertical to be so. This is a 2048x2048 image that is pretty clear. Its a typical dropout. Look at the QR skewer and picture how that must be the center of the dropout at its apex. It is probably a hair set back. But if so its nothing like it would be to address the issue.

Again this is common in the industry and not just Rad's doing. With that said, most "Western" market-catering manufacturers have abandoned QR in favor of thru axle (and I can say this has caused me great difficulty as I need a QR fork for one of my 2wd bikes and have been unable to score what I need since such forks are thin on the ground these days). QR only exists because of cheap Chinese manufacturing - These are the same guys that resurrected the freewheel from its grave.

And besides... we know it is. The lawsuit wouldn't be citing it if they hadn't already done their homework. I can guarantee you a law firm will have more than done the 10 minutes of due diligence necessary to confirm this issue.

Additionally lawyer lips are only for use when the axle has gotten to be loose. They aren't meant for anything but very basic retention duty. I have filed mine off as often as not as they interfere with a front motor's attachment to the fork (axle flats for an M12 axle that makes it fit in an M10 dropout)

 

[Gordon71]

screen shot off Rad tech page with video of how to replace a fork on the Rad Rover. Clearly a straight up and down dropout.

View attachment 131016

So, as long as the front wheel on my Rad Rover is on tight ( manual says tight enough that the lever leaves an imprint on my palm when closing) do I need to worry about my front wheel falling off? Guessing no. As I recall the last time I removed the wheel ( about 3,000 miles ago) it didn't even drop off when the lever was released.

 

[m@Robertson]

here's what an updated style of fork actually looks like. Quite different and VERY obviously more extreme than what the Rad Runner and most other QR forks have. Pretty much a 45-degree angle and thats before you factor in the extra rake that comes with being installed on the frame.

So, as long as the front wheel on my Rad Rover is on tight ( manual says tight enough that the lever leaves an imprint on my palm when closing) do I need to worry about my front wheel falling off? Guessing no. As I recall the last time I removed the wheel ( about 3,000 miles ago) it didn't even drop off when the lever was released.

Its not something I have ever been worried about, and I routinely put 203mm rotors on with 4-piston brakes. I also take care with my wheel nut torque. the danger happens if you let that go. However its a potentially serious issue on the back when you have horizontal dropouts. Some Surly frames had the problem, as did the Motobecane Lurch. I have a special capture device on my Lurch frame to keep the rear wheel from popping out under severe braking.

 

[Gordon71]

here's what an updated style of fork actually looks like. Quite different and VERY obviously more extreme than what the Rad Runner and most other QR forks have. Pretty much a 45-degree angle and thats before you factor in the extra rake that comes with being installed on the frame.
View attachment 131029

Its not something I have ever been worried about, and I routinely put 203mm rotors on with 4-piston brakes. I also take care with my wheel nut torque. the danger happens if you let that go. However its a potentially serious issue on the back when you have horizontal dropouts. Some Surly frames had the problem, as did the Motobecane Lurch. I have a special capture device on my Lurch frame to keep the rear wheel from popping out under severe braking.

That can't be a problem on the RR rear wheel due to the egg shaped washer that is screwed to the frame.

 

[m@Robertson]

That can't be a problem on the RR rear wheel due to the egg shaped washer that is screwed to the frame.

It can't be because the RR has vertical dropouts in back. I don't know why any bike manufacturer uses horizontal dropouts but they are a giant PITA. Not only can the wheel pop out of the dropouts in severe braking, it also - when there are no adjusters inside the dropouts - allows the rear wheel to be pulled forward out of alignment with strong pedaling. The chain pulls them forward on the drive side. Little screw-in adjusters can be built into the frame and fix that problem, at least.

 

[antboy]

screen shot off Rad tech page with video of how to replace a fork on the Rad Rover. Clearly a straight up and down dropout.

View attachment 131016

I thought I edited my earlier post to correct myself, but guess I forgot to hit update. Stupid work...

The dropout isn't straight up and down though, as the rear of the bike is suspended in that screenshot... it's sloped, but not nearly as much as @m-robertson's example (maybe +/- 20 degrees?).

 

[JRA]

A young girl is dead and this thread has wandered off onto who cares about dropouts the most. Sad. Still has been no indication that was even a problem via witnesses or the press, only speculation. Thru axles are the way to go but slow getting there. My main 3 bikes have them now.

 

[fooferdoggie]

A young girl is dead and this thread has wandered off onto who cares about dropouts the most. Sad. Still has been no indication that was even a problem via witnesses or the press, only speculation. Thru axles are the way to go but slow getting there. My main 3 bikes have them now.

ya like my trek only has a front through axle and my tandem only a back. come on now they are common my daughters 600.00 trek has them.

 

[JES2020]

So, as long as the front wheel on my Rad Rover is on tight ( manual says tight enough that the lever leaves an imprint on my palm when closing) do I need to worry about my front wheel falling off? Guessing no. As I recall the last time I removed the wheel ( about 3,000 miles ago) it didn't even drop off when the lever was released.

I would think a torque arm would help the issue. they not only prevent spinning, the hose clamp should keep the axle in the dropout. Use two for maximum effect.
It would be better if there was a "lip" after the hose clamp, but at lease the hose adds some resistance to wheel departure.

 

[tomjasz]

Toy bikes. Get treated like toys. Worst idea in the eBike market. Most will end up short lived if ridden hard.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

This is a sad story, no doubt. I couldn’t imagine if it were my kid. I do have a couple of concerns. Who assembled the bike and when? Were the kids on the right side of the road, you know, the one with the arrows?

Just yesterday, no lie, I saw 6 kids (grouped) coming up the wrong side of the street. None of them had helmets, not even a cute one dangling from the handlebars, and one was wearing a bra. These kids must’ve been 14-16 range. They were all analog bikes, but it made me think “Were told rules of the road and bike safety?”. I wouldn’t want to point any fingers, just trying to understand where the lack of bike education comes from and why some think that bikes are toys. I mean, you are on the same road with other vehicles driving and a faster speed than you. Sure you MAY have your own lane, but it’s still the exact same road with the exact same dangers. Please take care!

 

[JES2020]

This is a sad story, no doubt. I couldn’t imagine if it were my kid. I do have a couple of concerns. Who assembled the bike and when? Were the kids on the right side of the road, you know, the one with the arrows?

Just yesterday, no lie, I saw 6 kids (grouped) coming up the wrong side of the street. None of them had helmets, not even a cute one dangling from the handlebars, and one was wearing a bra. These kids must’ve been 14-16 range. They were all analog bikes, but it made me think “Were told rules of the road and bike safety?”. I wouldn’t want to point any fingers, just trying to understand where the lack of bike education comes from and why some think that bikes are toys. I mean, you are on the same road with other vehicles driving and a faster speed than you. Sure you MAY have your own lane, but it’s still the exact same road with the exact same dangers. Please take care!

It's the whole educational system that's at fault. That is the reason the anti science, anti logic, alternate facts ppl exist in such large numbers.
Something like 42% of Americans believe that driving North takes more gas than driving South.

 

[antboy]

Just yesterday, no lie, I saw 6 kids (grouped) coming up the wrong side of the street. None of them had helmets, not even a cute one dangling from the handlebars, and one was wearing a bra. These kids must’ve been 14-16 range. They were all analog bikes, but it made me think “Were told rules of the road and bike safety?”.

Just an observation, but:
Teenagers being scofflaws AND thinking they're invulnerable?
Inconceivable!