Obsession with hydraulic brakes

[FrankR]

I find that many people in the Lectricverse are obsessed with claiming the stock brakes are crap, and it's hydraulic or stay home.

I'm not getting it. My wife and I both have Lectric style bikes with disc brakes. They provide More than enough stopping power. I lived on my bicycle as a teenager, and none of us had hydraulic brakes.

What am I missing with this hydraulic obsession - for people, largely, riding at 11 to 15 mph?

 

[indianajo]

Beats me? I like doing the work myself instead of pushing the bike 4 miles to a shop then walking back home. Then repeat when it is done. About twice a year, 1000 miles, I turn in the pad one click. Every 6000 miles I need a new pair of pads.
Part of the resistance is the **** grey metal kiddie bikes use for cables. Require cable adjustment every couple of months, because of the stretch. Everybody had a $200 kiddie bike once, right? Solution, real steel cables. I use Jaguar or Clarks. I don't know where Yuba got the OEM cables for the bodaboda, but they have been no trouble. Some e-bike brands still come with grey metal cables instead of steel. Saves the manufacturer $.02 per unit.
What I do like is disk brakes. They don't increase stopping distance 20 times in the rain, the way rim brakes did. I've hit a car in the side that ran a stop sign with wet rim brakes. I couldn't stop from 2 mph.

 

[Gordon71]

I thought they were fine as well but needed frequent adjusting. I did put a set of mechanically activated hydraulics on my bike when the front caliper died on me and was impressed by how well they work and how easy they are to install. A year or so later I have not had to adjust them at all.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I find that many people in the Lectricverse are obsessed with claiming the stock brakes are crap, and it's hydraulic or stay home.

I'm not getting it. My wife and I both have Lectric style bikes with disc brakes. They provide More than enough stopping power. I lived on my bicycle as a teenager, and none of us had hydraulic brakes.

What am I missing with this hydraulic obsession - for people, largely, riding at 11 to 15 mph?

Unless you have a need for some extreme braking I'm with you.
For me the hybrid cable actuated self contained Hydraulic caliper are the best of both worlds for effectiveness and ease of working with and are more than adequate for most.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I find that many people in the Lectricverse are obsessed with claiming the stock brakes are crap, and it's hydraulic or stay home.

I'm not getting it. My wife and I both have Lectric style bikes with disc brakes. They provide More than enough stopping power. I lived on my bicycle as a teenager, and none of us had hydraulic brakes.

What am I missing with this hydraulic obsession - for people, largely, riding at 11 to 15 mph?

good cable brakes can be fine. but the brakes on the cheap bikes can really bite you in the butt. they may be fine for regular rides but a steep decent or the rain or a emergency stop they can be less then great. then there is the feel of good hydraulic brakes they are so much smoother and like my Shimano 1 finger brakes I can stop my 400# tandem on a 20% grade with one finger on each lever.

 

[keithj69]

Cable actuated brakes scare a good portion of the new riders being swooned by ebikes. Said ebikes are way faster than they remember as a kid. A good portion of the hate is the fact that the renewed riders were used to the old way. Now they hop on the bike they bought online after the minimal assembly they have to do without knowledge of normal bike maintenance. They never learned proper maintenance and they do not look at the bike like they look at the car in this instance. If they learned how to adjust the brakes in the 10 minutes it takes, they'd shut up.
But hydraulic brakes takes away from the stretched cables and the finicky adjustments. And it makes things nicer over the first couple of hundred miles. Until an air bubble.

 

[rich c]

With mechanical brakes you have to adjust cable tension that adjusts the outside pad. You have to adjust the inner pad with an allen wrench from the other side of the wheel. A lot of people don't even know about the inner pad adjustment, so have major issues with brake tension and can even warp a disc if the outer pad is forcing the disc over to contact the inner pad.

 

[gromike]

They never learned proper maintenance and they do not look at the bike like they look at the car in this instance.

They should probably pay more attention to the ebike than the car. One trip over the handlebars at 20mph might teach them that lesson.

 

[m@Robertson]

As an admin for a user group for a DTC ebike brand (Sondors), I can't count the number of times over the years I have seen people be completely unable to handle the routine service that is required of cabled brakes. For the non-cyclist (new to bikes thanks to the 'e') the general tendency was to ride the bike fast, brake hard and then be mystified as to why an 80 lb bike that runs at double the speed of a 30 lb bike couldn't stop the same after a couple of weeks. Then, when informed... frustration when the cables stretched again. That article in Bicycling magazine that went hand in hand with the Rad lawsuit pointed out in spades how the problem wasn't limited to Sondors owners by *any* stretch.

The people who switched to hydros generally did so to gain the benefit of no more maintenance (no cables to stretch, pads self-center etc. etc.), and when a decent number of people in the community did it and then compared before vs. after experience online, future help-me threads resulted in a chorus of users making the hydro recommendation... and a small minority saying hey waitaminute I can lock up my wheels just fine and gee its not so tough to adjust cables. An even smaller minority would say hey cables are more fault-tolerant.

The argument that gets the traction is "install-and-forget".

 

[Gionnirocket]

As an admin for a user group for a DTC ebike brand (Sondors), I can't count the number of times over the years I have seen people be completely unable to handle the routine service that is required of cabled brakes. For the non-cyclist (new to bikes thanks to the 'e') the general tendency was to ride the bike fast, brake hard and then be mystified as to why an 80 lb bike that runs at double the speed of a 30 lb bike couldn't stop the same after a couple of weeks. Then, when informed... frustration when the cables stretched again. That article in Bicycling magazine that went hand in hand with the Rad lawsuit pointed out in spades how the problem wasn't limited to Sondors owners by *any* stretch.

The people who switched to hydros generally did so to gain the benefit of no more maintenance (no cables to stretch, pads self-center etc. etc.), and when a decent number of people in the community did it and then compared before vs. after experience online, future help-me threads resulted in a chorus of users making the hydro recommendation... and a small minority saying hey waitaminute I can lock up my wheels just fine and gee its not so tough to adjust cables. An even smaller minority would say hey cables are more fault-tolerant.

The argument that gets the traction is "install-and-forget".

Same people who buy slip on shoes because of those confounded laces!

 

[JRA]

If yours are working for you why fret?

I have had cable, actually the old Avids weren't that bad, cable activated hydraulic and full hydraulic over the years and by far for my riding the full hydraulic ones with 200/180mm rotors work the best. But I hit speeds 3 times what you list on downhills.

 

[sc00ter]

As long as the brakes work good I don't care if their full mechanical, cable actuated hydraulic or full hydraulic. Mechanical (cheaper ones at least) can be noisy. My wife always ask if the Lectric XP brakes are good. Their so noisy. I might replace the calipers with Avid mechanical calipers one day. I had full hydraulic one a few ebikes and they worked great and they adjusted themselves. All of those were brand name as well. Like I said, as long as they work I'm fine with all of them.

But I really hate most of the cheap-o no name hydraulic disc brakes on some ebikes. Hard to bleed after you fix a leak. Strange small parts that are hard to find if damaged. Soft lever feel no matter what you do. I've seen some truly terrible hydraulic brakes on electric kick scooters as well!

Now this is gonna go way back! I like drum brakes! When I purchased my current motor scooter (Buddy 125) one of the selling points was the drum rear. Drums are just so much easier to deal with on a commuter. The Honda Ruckus 50cc is also a personal favorite.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Most decent mechanical disk brakes have barrel adjusters. So every two weeks you give them a quarter turn (usually without tools). Maybe twice a year you'll have to replace the pads and wind the barrel adjuster back out and give the brakes an honest adjustment.

So unless you find that quarter turn every two weeks to be onerous there isn't much difference most of the time. On long downhills your hands will get tired more quickly with a mechanical brake. And the hybrid systems have some risk of having the hydraulic fluid overheat (because of the smaller volume of fluid) on those same descents.

Growtac or Paul Components make great mechanical disk brakes. Yokozuna makes an excellent hybrid (cable-actuated hydraulic) disk brake.

All of the above are high end no compromise components that are arguably as good (and as expensive) as the very best hydraulic brake systems. Whether they are "better" or not depends on your exact requirements and the kind of riding you do.

 

[ElevenAD]

I have both and for me there is no comparison, hydraulic brakes all day! In my experience they stop faster and require far less adjusting. This reminds me my mechanical brakes actually need to be adjusted, again!

 

[rob feature]

I find that many people in the Lectricverse are obsessed with claiming the stock brakes are crap, and it's hydraulic or stay home.

I'm not getting it. My wife and I both have Lectric style bikes with disc brakes. They provide More than enough stopping power. I lived on my bicycle as a teenager, and none of us had hydraulic brakes.

What am I missing with this hydraulic obsession - for people, largely, riding at 11 to 15 mph?

Reliability, predictability, and power are the big ones with me. Brakes need to be consistent - at least where I live & ride. Descents can be thousands of feet on steep mountain terrain. IME good hydraulics just deliver without any drama. Modulation is good. Heat buildup is minimal. They're there for you when you need them.

I've used Avid BB7 sets before and while they're powerful and reliable enough for townie use, I do not like them in the mountains. Adjustments are finicky and cables do not allow the modulation you get with hydraulics. Cables can also collect crud and need to be cleaned/lubed/replaced more often in dusty environments. Closed hydraulic systems don't suffer this flaw. Yeah, hydraulics also need maintenance, but less than other types and it's super easy once you figure it out.

As far as stock brakes go, if you're getting questionable brakes on a heavy, powerful electric bike, then you probably need to start questioning the rest of the components. If a company will go cheap on the brakes, you can probably bet that they went cheap everywhere else (like the battery, drivetrain, wheels, frame, etc). I trust my life to my brakes and the rest of the components.

But hey, if you don't think you need good brakes, then you probably don't. After all, brakes only slow ya down.

 

[PDoz]

Why are we even arguing about hydraulics when the real question is how many pots and do I prefer kevlar or ceramic pads?

Seriously, if you're a good enough rider to compensate for dragging a rusty cable through a worn out kinked tube even before it squeezes poorly adjusted pads against a disk smeared with road grime.... well, I'm impressed..... but please don't expect me to return to blasting around on a bmx and dragging testicles on the rear tyre for brakes...

I've experienced quality 4 pot hydraulics on 200 mm rotors..... never going back......

 

[sc00ter]

but please don't expect me to return to blasting around on a bmx and dragging testicles on the rear tyre for brakes...

I always hated caliper brakes from the days of old. I rode freestyle bikes and I constantly adjusted brakes. Remember putting soda on the rims to increase grip? Kids nowadays don't need no stinkin' brakes on bmx bikes! Brake-less is the way to go.

 

[None]

Brakes, who needs them, they only slow you down.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I don't think anyone is arguing that Hydraulic brakes aren't better... it's more if they are the only answer. For the casual rider who doesn't live on a mountain top, own a 400lb bike and maybe rides a few hours a week I say not necessary. I'm average weight and ride a hilly area but no continuous miles down hill and the cable pull are more than adequate and adjustments don't take more than an accumulative hour a year and with no special tools.

After all I have 4 piston Brembo on a sports car but I wouldn't suggest that all should.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I have what must be the cheapest cable brakes on the planet! Bought a steel frame $260.00 Walmart Mongoose Fat Bike (below), DIY'd it with a BBSHD back in 2020. A few people here warned me about the cheap "Walfart" cable brakes. I figure that Mongoose looked high and low in China and ordered the cheapest brakes they could find to be able to build and deliver this bike to the U.S. for $260.00. I added 203mm discs.
I gotta say I have no trouble stopping this bike on a dime with these cheap-ass cable brakes. That being said, compared to my 3 other bikes with hydraulic brakes, these brakes are finicky, require continuous adjustments, and more maintenance. I never have to adjust my hydraulic brakes, and they have faster and smoother stopping power, with less effort. I'd opt for hydraulics anytime. The little amount of extra money is worth it [to me]. However, if I had only ever used cable brakes, I would have said, "yeah these brakes are fine". Having ridden with hydraulic brakes, I gotta say, cable brakes are crude in comparison.