My UC Pro has arrived

[Merle Nelson]

That sounds like incredible battery range. Probably mostly because you are putting in so much effort. Glad to hear it.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I did 35km in level 1 and it kinda pooped me out.

 

[BarnBoy]

It finally stopped raining, so I took advantage of the decent weather to go for a 70km ride (40miles).
Because the chain still skips in the smallest 11t cassette cog I didn't go lower than the 13t cog, which topped out my maximum cruising speed at around 20-21 mph at my preferred cadence (around 80).
I'm hoping that the 48t front chain ring I ordered will allow me to cruise at a bit higher speeds, maybe in the 22 to 25 mph range. I don't often ride at those speeds, but there are times when I want to haul ass.
The bike performed well and felt really comfortable.
Because I knew I was going 40 miles I took along my extra battery.....just in case. I don't know what that battery weighs, but I can tell you that damn thing is HEAVY!

I ended up not needing it. I started out with 92% and ended up with 30%. Half the ride was in level 1, but I found the bike to be too heavy for this level, when trying to maintain a decent cruising speed.
For the last half of the ride I bumped the power up to level 2, which felt a lot better.

At one point it felt like the power had fallen off and I had to pedal harder to maintain the same speed. Shortly after that the full power came back on. I'm not quite sure what was going on here and I'll have to see if that happens again on future rides.

@Deacon Blues - what you describe is a feature of the Motor Torque (?) setting; the bottom row programming parameter…..
-BB

 

[Lsthrz]

Did you ever do anything with your derailleur?

 

[Deacon Blues]

Did you ever do anything with your derailleur?

No.

 

[TomD]

That sounds like incredible battery range. Probably mostly because you are putting in so much effort. Glad to hear it.

TBH, about what I'd expect for an Ultra with Archon controller. I get similar range (with some hilly terrain) on a FS bike with 840wh battery averaging PAS 2. I generally don't charge above 80% just to keep battery healthy but never have range anxiety, granted my rides are typically less than 30 miles.

 

[Jon A]

If I remember correctly, the EX1 cassette requires a 1.85mm spacer on the freehub which would imply the biggest cog is spaced outward somewhere around where my 2nd cog is. That alone.....

For the record, I was only partially correct. The EX1 also has a spacer built into the end of the cassette:

From here: https://www.bikeradar.com/news/sram...5&type=gallery&gallery=1&embedded_slideshow=1

To reduce cross-chaining, the position of the biggest cog is 7mm inwards compared with an 11-speed drivetrain, Braedt said.

That's a pretty significant difference, putting it on par (or even a bit better) than the Prime 9 system for having a good chainline in all gears. It should make chain-rub a non-issue for even the fattest tires when properly set up so it has a lot going for it particularly for fat bikes.

 

[Jon A]

Even though I've solved most of my chain skipping problem I would still not recommend anyone ordering my bike (with the older frame, which has the much wider rear axle) with a derailleur setup.

I'm sorry to hear you're still having issues, I think there must be something else going on. It just shouldn't be this hard--it makes me feel guilty being able to cruise at 30+ MPH (pushing fat, knobby tires) without a hint of skip on 11 and even 10 tooth cogs. I know nobody wants to spend money on a brand new bike, but I couldn't handle a bike that couldn't use all its gears. I have to wonder if starting over with a completely new Sram or maybe higher level Shimano drivetrain would fix things.

 

[Deacon Blues]

How committed am I to this bike? I wanted to download the X1 software to modify the bike's controller, per Pushkar's video, but all my computer stuff is MAC, which won't work with the X1 controller software, so I bought, during Black Friday week, a Windows laptop from Costco.
I applied for the needed password and now I'm waiting for it so I can do the changes.
Using a Windows machine is a real learning curve for this (OLD) MAC guy.

On the riding front, I was planning on going for a ride today, but the temperature dropped below freezing last night and at 10:00am and the roads were still icy,
I did plan on a 50km ride, but that will have to wait until it warms up a bit. Luckily, I've got all the cold weather gear, which includes a balaclava, heated gloves and heated socks. The joys of living in the Great White North. Actually, where I live the weather is quite mild (for Canada). We seldom get snow, and I can usually ride year-round......when it isn't raining.
Unfortunately, the forecast is for snow tomorrow, which is kinda funny, since tomorrow is when I'm taking my new Ford Maverick in for snow tires.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Even though I've solved most of my chain skipping problem I would still not recommend anyone ordering my bike (with the older frame, which has the much wider rear axle) with a derailleur setup.
With the fat spider, which gives the bike a huge 'Q' factor, there is still some skipping, and I suspect I'll be frequently going through chains and cassettes.
If I had it to do over again I would have gone with the Kindernay, or Rohloff hub. I know they have their own set of negatives, but (in my humble opinion) they're a much better option that the derailleur setup.
Hopefully, Pushkar has solved this huge cross chain problem with the new UC Pro frames that are coming.

I'll be interested in how the derailleur setup works on your upcoming bike.

Glad you published.
-
Yes, the Cross Tour frames are wider. Two widths. 190mm and 197mm. You're indicating a 197mm.
I believe I ordered a 190mm CT - but I'm cool w 197mm. I'll be running sand tires a bit, not in dunes, on stretches of West Coast beaches.
The rest is commute using 3" road tires.
The right cassette(s) for the low end fattie work/ commute daily might be a bigger challenge that I thought.

148mm being UC's normal width - I saw WW advertised in "177mm" too (could have been a kit).
190mm is considered "fat bike" by bafang for their idea of a fat bike offset.
The christini is the 'fat-back hog' - appearing on 5"+ tires - a full 7mm wider, more than 1/4" additional offset.
This christini (photo) is runs fat meats and a huge offset. 197mm?

That's their 197mm fat bike xxl (running 26 x 5.5" tires).
A reviewer said: I had my build made with GX components because I am poor and the X01 gearset is too pricy. I love that the bike comes with the XD driver rear hub and an all steel 11 Speed 42T-10T cassette ... GX 11 speed system ... with the short cage setup, I really like the way it works with the cassette. Everything feels solid and the gears don’t jump once it is adjusted properly. ..."
-
That's a 1500watt machine and "gears jumping" has been a problem.
My take is unchanged. A 48t ring gear w/ a highest gear cassette of 12t (for 6 teeth on the chain, not 5 when changing gears).
I doubt you can attain the correct offset for a 197mm using a bafang fat bike spider if there is a 7mm bias to the lower gears.
-
Maybe I don't get it. You ordered an Ultra powered commuter and have a Q factor concern.
If the motor's width, the shaft length, the cranks offsets and pedals placement are fixed values, how would an IGH provide a different Q factor than a chain ?
I hear ya on the knees. What helped me was finding that sweet spot where I could fully extend - but then I'm only doing 10mile rides.
-
I think Scrambler - knows his cogs and chains - dumbed it down enough for me to understand a bit.
A lot of bicycle gospel is obsolete with these machines - just by their very nature.
Some smart cookies on these forums if you check around.

Share some photos!!!

Regards,

Fn'F

 

[Fast n' Furious]

How committed am I to this bike? I wanted to download the X1 software to modify the bike's controller, per Pushkar's video, but all my computer stuff is MAC, which won't work with the X1 controller software, so I bought, during Black Friday week, a Windows laptop from Costco.
I applied for the needed password and now I'm waiting for it so I can do the changes.
Using a Windows machine is a real learning curve for this (OLD) MAC guy.

On the riding front, I was planning on going for a ride today, but the temperature dropped below freezing last night and at 10:00am and the roads were still icy,
I did plan on a 50km ride, but that will have to wait until it warms up a bit. Luckily, I've got all the cold weather gear, which includes a balaclava, heated gloves and heated socks. The joys of living in the Great White North. Actually, where I live the weather is quite mild (for Canada). We seldom get snow, and I can usually ride year-round......when it isn't raining.
Unfortunately, the forecast is for snow tomorrow, which is kinda funny, since tomorrow is when I'm taking my new Ford Maverick in for snow tires.

Your 197mm rear is set for snow tires.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

M

For the record, I was only partially correct. The EX1 also has a spacer built into the end of the cassette:

View attachment 108527


From here: https://www.bikeradar.com/news/sram...5&type=gallery&gallery=1&embedded_slideshow=1



That's a pretty significant difference, putting it on par (or even a bit better) than the Prime 9 system for having a good chainline in all gears. It should make chain-rub a non-issue for even the fattest tires when properly set up so it has a lot going for it particularly for fat bikes.

The christini spider, purpose designed for xx fatties is my choice and I check daily for availability. Next week, I hear.
While the bafang fat-bike spider fits 190mm offsets on it's outer side, the christini's inside mount is for 190mm and the outside is 7mm further out. Being two gears thinner, spacers make sense.
Trouble is here, he's skipping - some - on the 13cog too.
From center, 11sp skipping in 2 of the 5 cogs on one side = 40% fail rate.
From center, 9sp is 1 cog narrower than 12sp = 10% improvement. You have 30 of 40% fail rate = 1.2 gears.
Likely lopsided alignment. Otherwise it'd be on both extremes of the cassette.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I do a lot of riding on my carbon road bike, which has a fairly narrow 'Q' factor. When I hopped on the WW, with the fat spider and extended cranks, I could tell, right away, that my feet were (a lot) farther apart.
I was initially concerned that this much wider stance would have an impact on my old knees, but that hasn't been the case. After a non-stop 70km ride my knees were fine.

For my bike, with the 197mm rear axle width, I think a hub shifter is a better way to go. Having said that, I'll have to wait for my final evaluation, after I install the 48t I've ordered.
When it comes to derailleurs, chain rings, and group set components I'm a serious noob. This is all new to me, but I enjoy the challenge.

My WW bike's mission is 'high speed' cruising. When I say 'high speed' I don't mean 30+mph. I'm very happy with 25mph, max, and only on long straight stretches of road. Other than that, I don't mind going slower and enjoying the ride and the scenery.

Fn'F, do you know when you're getting your bike?

 

[Jon A]

While the bafang fat-bike spider fits 190mm offsets on it's outer side, the christini's inside mount is for 190mm and the outside is 7mm further out. Being two gears thinner, spacers make sense.

That's not the case. There is no difference in cassette location between 190 (quick release skewer) hubs and 197 (generally through axle hubs). Many hubs can be converted from one configuration to the other--the cassette doesn't move.

I do a lot of riding on my carbon road bike, which has a fairly narrow 'Q' factor.

Yes, Q Factor is a personal thing. I have bad knees and the wide Q of Fatbikes don't bother me at all. When I switch from a mountain bike to a fat bike, I notice the Q difference for a few seconds, then forget about it. Some will find it does bother them. I don't think there's any way for individuals to know if it'll bother them without giving it a try.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

That's not the case. There is no difference in cassette location between 190 (quick release skewer) hubs and 197 (generally through axle hubs). Many hubs can be converted from one configuration to the other--the cassette doesn't move.

Yes, Q Factor is a personal thing. I have bad knees and the wide Q of Fatbikes don't bother me at all. When I switch from a mountain bike to a fat bike, I notice the Q difference for a few seconds, then forget about it. Some will find it does bother them. I don't think there's any way for individuals to know if it'll bother them without giving it a try.

I'm thinking Deacon has 197mm skewers. I ordered 190mm axles. I've been under the impression the cassette did move further outboard with wider widths - why bafang made a wide offset type spider, as well as to eliminate rubbing. The specs will be interesting once I have both spiders in my hand.
Not knowing Q factor from Agent 99's armorer, I looked. 'Q Factor, also known stance width or tread, is the distance between the bike’s crank arms, which is essentially the distance between your feet as you pedal'.
So, a Hydra, given the same motor and cranks on the same length shafts, and a 197mm Cross Tour have the same Q factor
I'm a go out on a limb here -- from my experience the offset of the ring gear has nothing to do with a Q factor -unless the ring is too close to your pants - not John Wayne, more that Slim Pickins limp.
Knees? I'm ossified. Took a while, advice, reading and videos, experimentation to figure out how to set my seat - just me now - and suddenly it all worked. The vids at KINEKT really helped - and changing out the springs to a mix for my in-between weight. The Selle Anatomica, just (finally) getting broken in feels better all the time - so the Brooks should be interesting - and my knees feel fine.
Still not perfect geometry, I get sore in my traps. Hope to eliminate that with my Cross Tour - without another $600, but eyeing titanium bars so it could happen.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I do a lot of riding on my carbon road bike, which has a fairly narrow 'Q' factor. When I hopped on the WW, with the fat spider and extended cranks, I could tell, right away, that my feet were (a lot) farther apart.
I was initially concerned that this much wider stance would have an impact on my old knees, but that hasn't been the case. After a non-stop 70km ride my knees were fine.

For my bike, with the 197mm rear axle width, I think a hub shifter is a better way to go. Having said that, I'll have to wait for my final evaluation, after I install the 48t I've ordered.
When it comes to derailleurs, chain rings, and group set components I'm a serious noob. This is all new to me, but I enjoy the challenge.

My WW bike's mission is 'high speed' cruising. When I say 'high speed' I don't mean 30+mph. I'm very happy with 25mph, max, and only on long straight stretches of road. Other than that, I don't mind going slower and enjoying the ride and the scenery.

Fn'F, do you know when you're getting your bike?

Good news for the knees. I'm happy with a 25mph cruise. 48t will provide that easily.
I know it will all come together. There are other CT owners out there loving these machines.
The study coming up will be the settings. I have some hobbyist experience. Rule 1: Know where the reset button is. lol
I'm due from March onward.
I'm simply tired of worrying and promised myself I'd keep a positive outlook.

 

[Deacon Blues]

'from my experience the offset of the ring gear has nothing to do with a Q factor -unless the ring is too close to your pants"

It's not the fat spider/ring itself that has increased the 'Q' factor on my bike-it's the fat bike crank arms that Pushkar sent me to give me more chain clearance.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I think I'll put my throttle back on the bike.
On my Cannondale Lefty 3, with the Bosch gen 4 motor, the bike is A LOT lighter and the torque sensor is much more responsive. When starting off the Bosch motor starts giving me power after only 1/4 revolution of the pedal/crank arm. Getting the bike rolling is easy in almost all situations.
With my UC Pro I'm hampered by trying to start off on a really heavy bike and with a motor that needs at least 1/2 revolutions on the pedal/crank arm to start applying power.

 

[Jon A]

Deacon has 197mm skewers. I ordered 190mm axles. I've been under the impression the cassette did move further outboard with wider widths -

I don't know the details of that frame, but people quite commonly use 190/197 interchangeably and/or incorrectly. In most contexts it doesn't matter because it denotes the same size frame, tire clearance, chainline, etc. Jump down to 170/177 (the older, smaller "fatbike standard") and you are talking a different sized frame, likely tire clearance, required chainline, etc. That's why in charts like this they are lumped together:

why bafang made a wide offset type spider, as well as to eliminate rubbing.

They may offer something I don't know about, but I've only seen the Ultra offered with two setups from Bafang--the standard or MTB width, and the "fat" width. In this case it's pretty clear Deacon got the MTB width but needed the Fat to match his hub more closely.

I'm a go out on a limb here -- from my experience the offset of the ring gear has nothing to do with a Q factor -unless the ring is too close to your pants - not John Wayne, more that Slim Pickins limp.

As Deacon says, the Q comes from the cranks. However, I'm pretty sure if you tried to install a Fat spider (Christini or Bafang) with the regular cranks, you'd get interference so you need to use the Fat cranks. Most frames for a 190/197 hub would also interfere with the regular cranks, but that doesn't appear to be the case with Deacon's bike.

With my UC Pro I'm hampered by trying to start off on a really heavy bike and with a motor that needs at least 1/2 revolutions on the pedal/crank arm to start applying power.

Hopefully when people dig into the programming of the X1 they'll figure out how to improve that. With my stock Bafang I have it down to less than 1/4 turn. Of course that's still a lot if you're in a really wrong gear, but in an appropriate gear it works pretty well.

 

[loamoaf]

@Deacon Blues good to see you got it up & running and your issues mostly solved. Hopefully the 48T helps with your speed but if you still get some skipping that's a big bummer. Wider Q factor that what fits you wouldn't goof your knees up as much as it would your hips - to me at least the bigger thing for my knees is the crank arm length & whether the seat tub is adjusted properly. Miranda does sell ISIS spline cranks in a huge variety of lengths and Q factors including some fatbike sizes that push the arm out to clear a fat spider without pushing the Q factor out quite as much. Pretty good range though on your set up, 40 miles sounds good hopefully the elevation and terrain won't murder my range too much - it's a big part of why I wanted to scoop the X1. My M9000 shifter came in so I set that up on the bike with the derailleur, they were even kind enough to include cable housing unlike SRAM hehe. I need to catch up on the other threads but I did see numbers past my order number in the Hydra thread saying there were just waiting on motors (sounds familiar) and expected the 4th - so here's to hoping the motor for my order is finally coming in that batch... while I've been waiting to go riding in the snow I did manage to get out and break in a new pair of snowshoes at least - they work!