My Top 4 Value FS eMTB

[Henstelfs]

More options. Again 17.5 AH.

THUNDER 1000W MID-DRIVE DOWNHILL MOUNTAIN E-BIKE - FULL SUSPENSIONS

Motor power: Bafang Mid-drive 1000W Battery: 48V/17.5Ah Lithium battery Range: 60 - 120 km Charge time: up to 8 hours Tire: 27.5"x3.0" SramX9 - SramX5 9-speed Tektro Dorado 4P Hydraulic brakes - Disc203 Full Downhill DNM Racing Shox suspensions Pedal-assist Thumb throttle LCD Display Weight...

richmondebike.com

THUNDER 1000W MID-DRIVE MOUNTAIN E-BIKE - FULL ROCKSHOX SUSPENSIONS

Motor power: Bafang Mid-drive 1000W Battery: 48V/17.5Ah Lithium battery Range: 60 - 120 km Charge time: up to 8 hours Tire: 27.5"x3.0" SramX9 - SramX5 9-speed Tektro Dorado 4P Hydraulic brakes - Disc203 Front RockShox Judy Deluxe RT3 Rear RockShox Pedal-assist Thumb throttle LCD Display Weight...

richmondebike.com

 

[Henstelfs]

I paid $300 for shipping from Frey but that was part of the first group buy. Normally sea shipping is $500 so wasn't a huge savings. They recently offered another group buy with free shipping, but that just ended. While that was a nice deal, it was also an insanely long wait.

I just priced out the Biktrix Ultra FS with upgrades comparable to the Frey AM1000 (Magura MT5, 21AH battery): $4247 USD. Frey AM1000 is $3120 USD so roughly $1100 cheaper (USD). I'm not sure how comparable the other components are. Biktrix has done some tweaking of the torque sensing to make it smoother so gets the edge there. Frey doesn't hide behind a house fork and seems to offer better shocks. Frey's patented rear suspension may be better than Biktrix. Frey also offers spare batteries and addons much cheaper. Biktrix pricing reflects 20% off for pre-order (not sure if this is standard discount or not). You'll also get it faster from Biktrix. Frey is a 2+ month wait.

The Frey AM1000 and the Biktrix Ultra FS are my two top choices right now. Here's what your comparison looks like. I'm buying a Large Size. I'm 6'1'' ~200lbs and I'll be on hills constantly.

Ultimately I'm going for range. How big of a difference will 5.4kg make? Will Frey's other components make up for it? When brakes and battery are equal, the Frey is cheaper.

Bike

Battery

Weight

Brakes

Fork

Rear Suspension

Wheel Base

Chain stay

Tires

Transmission

Handlebar

Warranty

My Price after Shipping

Ultra FS

48V 21AH

34.6kg

Magura MT5e Quad Piston Hydraulic 180mm

Biktrix Inverted tapered w/150mm travel

Rock Shox 160mm

1307mm

495mm

27.5x3 Kenda Havoc 40mm rims

SRAM NX 11 speed 44T Steel Chainring

ALU 800mm 20mm rise

Lifetime frame warranty and 1-year on all electronics.

$5997 CAD

AM1000

48V 21AH

~40kg? (Spec from alibaba)

Magura MT5 Ne F:203MM R:203mm

Rochshox Yari RC Boost 110*15mm,160mm

Rochshox Deluxe 205*65mm,160mm

1259.7mm

474.3mm

Maxxis 27.5*2.8" REKON+ TLR

Shimano RD-M8000 40T alloy crank wheel

AM-XM 760mm 12mm rise

Yes, but what exactly?

$5616.20 CAD

Ultra more efficient.

?

?

Frey more agile

Frey more efficient

Frey 0.2mm better for efficiency

Frey wins on hills.

Frey doesn't hit the tree. Ultra is more stable

 

[FlatSix911]

Nice choices with the Frey and Biktrix bikes... have you also looked at WattWagons?

They make some really high quality bikes with a lot of custom options for high power motors and dual batteries for maximum range.

Watt Wagons - World Record Setting E-bikes Built in USA

Watt Wagons makes the Hydra, Helios, and Pulse! The new generation of automotive grade, nearly maintenance free e-bikes right here in USA. Powered by Bafang motors and Custom Controllers.

wattwagons.com

 

[Henstelfs]

Nice choices with the Frey and Biktrix bikes... have you also looked at WattWagons?

They make some really high quality bikes with a lot of custom options for high power motors and dual batteries for maximum range.

Watt Wagons - World Record Setting E-bikes Built in USA

Watt Wagons makes the Hydra, Helios, and Pulse! The new generation of automotive grade, nearly maintenance free e-bikes right here in USA. Powered by Bafang motors and Custom Controllers.

wattwagons.com

View attachment 51822

Yes I have. They look like top of the line bikes! The FS Travelanche is the one I’d go for but at $10 600 CAD it’s too pricy. Beside why is choosing a 1000W over 750W motor a $500 upgrade?

 

[byunbee]

I've noticed that Crazy Lenny's websites deals aren't what it used to be in the past. I can only guess that it because of the spike in bike and ebike sales due to COVID-19.

 

[TomD]

You have to call Crazy Lenny's for the best deals. Even when they advertise specials you can often do better by calling.

Henstelfs, having just got my Frey CC, I can comment a little more about the Ultra. The power is awesome, but it sucks battery like blood to a vampire.

 

[BillH]

The Frey AM1000 and the Biktrix Ultra FS are my two top choices right now. Here's what your comparison looks like. I'm buying a Large Size. I'm 6'1'' ~200lbs and I'll be on hills constantly.

Ultimately I'm going for range. How big of a difference will 5.4kg make? Will Frey's other components make up for it? When brakes and battery are equal, the Frey is cheaper.

Bike

Battery

Weight

Brakes

Fork

Rear Suspension

Wheel Base

Chain stay

Tires

Transmission

Handlebar

Warranty

My Price after Shipping

Ultra FS

48V 21AH

34.6kg

Magura MT5e Quad Piston Hydraulic 180mm

Biktrix Inverted tapered w/150mm travel

Rock Shox 160mm

1307mm

495mm

27.5x3 Kenda Havoc 40mm rims

SRAM NX 11 speed 44T Steel Chainring

ALU 800mm 20mm rise

Lifetime frame warranty and 1-year on all electronics.

$5997 CAD

AM1000

48V 21AH

~40kg? (Spec from alibaba)

Magura MT5 Ne F:203MM R:203mm

Rochshox Yari RC Boost 110*15mm,160mm

Rochshox Deluxe 205*65mm,160mm

1259.7mm

474.3mm

Maxxis 27.5*2.8" REKON+ TLR

Shimano RD-M8000 40T alloy crank wheel

AM-XM 760mm 12mm rise

Yes, but what exactly?

$5616.20 CAD

Ultra more efficient.

?

?

Frey more agile

Frey more efficient

Frey 0.2mm better for efficiency

Frey wins on hills.

Frey doesn't hit the tree. Ultra is more stable

The lightest of these two is 76lbs (~35kg)? And you plan on riding hills constantly and want long range? Me thinks you should reconsider your choices.

 

[Henstelfs]

The lightest of these two is 76lbs (~35kg)? And you plan on riding hills constantly and want long range? Me thinks you should reconsider your choices.

So I need a lightweight bike, with an efficient medium power motor, with a battery that's as big as it needs to be but as light as possible. Which doesn't break the bank like the Superdelite https://www.r-m.de/en-ca/models/superdelite-mountain/

 

[byunbee]

So I need a lightweight bike, with an efficient medium power motor, with a battery that's as big as it needs to be but as light as possible. Which doesn't break the bank like the Superdelite https://www.r-m.de/en-ca/models/superdelite-mountain/

If you want a lighter (no ebikes are light) weight eMTB, you're going to have to look at the big name brands with Bosch, Brose, or Yamaha motors and look to spend $3-4K minimum.

 

[TomD]

This just leads full circle back to the original post. The Luna X1 is as light as those bikes but 50% more power.

 

[Henstelfs]

This just leads full circle back to the original post. The Luna X1 is as light as those bikes but 50% more power.

Thanks for pointing that out. The Luna is only 25kg ( 55lbs) but has a 650WH battery). So I save at least 20 lbs which is a lot, but lose 350WH. I guess it's more important to save weight when looking for long range on hills?

The Luna has a M600 with optional 2000W Ludicrous mode, instead of M620 but I guess those motors are pretty similar. I know Luna does custom motor tuning too.

 

[bob armani]

I don’t live in California so how would I test ride the Lunas? The X1 doesn’t have a big enough battery for me.

Good question. Some bike companies have "ambassador programs" that allow potential customers to test ride a bike sold by the company. The owners of their bikes reside locally. You would have to get in touch with Luna to find out if they participate in this type of program.

 

[TomD]

I'm somewhat torn on recommending the X1 (or lighter FS eMTB) as I just don't know how you'll carry a spare battery unless you have room in your backpack. How many miles do you plan to ride and how much elevation gain?

 

[Henstelfs]

Good question. Some bike companies have "ambassador programs" that allow potential customers to test ride a bike sold by the company. The owners of their bikes reside locally. You would have to get in touch with Luna to find out if they participate in this type of program.

Thanks I’ll ask around. I’d really like to test ride these bikes.

 

[Henstelfs]

I'm somewhat torn on recommending the X1 (or lighter FS eMTB) as I just don't know how you'll carry a spare battery unless you have room in your backpack. How many miles do you plan to ride and how much elevation gain?

I’d like to ride 40km (25miles) and up to 350m (1150feet) in elevation.

 

[TomD]

That's not a lot of gain. I suspect you'd be fine with a spare battery on the X1 if you didn't want to pedal hard. With moderate pedaling you might even be able to get 25 miles without needing a spare.

 

[Henstelfs]

I will pedal moderately.

Now I'm back to looking at the Voltbike Enduro which is only $2800 CAD. It's also 55lbs but with a bigger 48V 16AH 768WH battery (+118 > X1). Obviously it has $2000CAD worth of cheaper parts,.. but if range is king...

 

[Kaako]

In theory a 750Wh battery can feed 750W of power for 1 hour (not that you'd want to stress your battery that hard or drain it to zero). If you went with a M600 and a spare ~700Wh battery you'd probably have some decent range for logging roads. The M600 isn't powerful enough to take you up hills on throttle alone (you'll be helping it along). With a Bafang Ultra you might be able to just throttle it. How much battery would that consume, I can't say. That's not what I would buy an ebike for. I don't need 3000W peak power but I still pre-ordered the Watt Wagon superbike (it was too good to pass up with founder benefits, lol). I'll probably never use more than 750W nominal (1500W peak should be plenty) but there are other benefits to the aftermarket controller (smoother torque sensing and power delivery, as well as efficiency gains). You don't need to spend a lot to get a FS with Bafang Ultra. I ended up ordering a Frey CC which cost me $3K + shipping. Should arrive Tuesday. Only took 4 months to get here. It's true, you can't just have 1 ebike.

“It’s true, you can’t just have 1 bike“

As a family we always had a host of bikes, but as the years progressed my wife was the serious rider with the serious collection of bikes ... which to my detriment, I always mentioned. Now that I am riding again an ebike was the only way I could keep up ... serious lesson in humility. Then she needed an ebike, then I needed an eMTB and then ... I have heard it’s the old “plus1“ syndrome.

 

[dmark]

Carrying a spare battery will add about 10 lbs of weight; plus the spare battery is going to be in a suboptimal position that will diminish the ride.

I think you want the Luna Apollo; you get the most battery with the least weight.

 

[Henstelfs]

Carrying a spare battery will add about 10 lbs of weight; plus the spare battery is going to be in a suboptimal position that will diminish the ride.

I think you want the Luna Apollo; you get the most battery with the least weight.

I read carbon fibre isn’t as durable as aluminum framed. Definitely good battery to weight ratio though.