My Top 4 Value FS eMTB

[byunbee]

In theory a 750Wh battery can feed 750W of power for 1 hour (not that you'd want to stress your battery that hard or drain it to zero). If you went with a M600 and a spare ~700Wh battery you'd probably have some decent range for logging roads. The M600 isn't powerful enough to take you up hills on throttle alone (you'll be helping it along). With a Bafang Ultra you might be able to just throttle it. How much battery would that consume, I can't say. That's not what I would buy an ebike for. I don't need 3000W peak power but I still pre-ordered the Watt Wagon superbike (it was too good to pass up with founder benefits, lol). I'll probably never use more than 750W nominal (1500W peak should be plenty) but there are other benefits to the aftermarket controller (smoother torque sensing and power delivery, as well as efficiency gains). You don't need to spend a lot to get a FS with Bafang Ultra. I ended up ordering a Frey CC which cost me $3K + shipping. Should arrive Tuesday. Only took 4 months to get here. It's true, you can't just have 1 ebike.

It's a bit like getting a new smartphone. Do you really need to get a new one every year? Can you use two phones at once? Maybe, but normally no. Every new phone can probably last 10 years without issues. But when new toy comes out, you have to have it...ending up with 2-3 old phones in your stable. Some people sell their old phones to get the new, others keep it for other uses. I have 2 ebikes and likely will end up selling the old and buying new models as long as there is just a little nudge to justify buying one. It's a real addiction....☠

 

[Henstelfs]

So one thing has become clear. I want the biggest battery I can afford.

I'll still be peddling uphill so the motor isn't strained. I guess I'm wishful thinking that it can magically become a dirt bike whenever I want it too.

Frey CC look great but AM1000 has the bigger battery . It has the same battery and motor and similar weight as the Juggernaut Ultra FS.

AM1000 and Ultra FS both have: Bufang G510, 48V 21AH battery.
AM1000 is 40kg and $5731.07 CAD after shipping!
Ultra FS is 34.6kg(large) and $5,637.99 CAD free shipping.
Cheaper option is from my home country. I'll get the service I need too.
Is Frey really gonna be worth it? I know it's only $100 difference but $1280 of it goes towards shipping alone. I guess Ultra had shipping parts from China in it's price already.

 

[byunbee]

I used to think Frey were a good deal, but these days it would only be a good deal if they offered free shipping. For the included shipping cost, you can probably buy a as good or better ebike here from a name brand when it's on sale. Not to mention the months of wait for the bike to arrive...

 

[TomD]

I paid $300 for shipping from Frey but that was part of the first group buy. Normally sea shipping is $500 so wasn't a huge savings. They recently offered another group buy with free shipping, but that just ended. While that was a nice deal, it was also an insanely long wait.

I just priced out the Biktrix Ultra FS with upgrades comparable to the Frey AM1000 (Magura MT5, 21AH battery): $4247 USD. Frey AM1000 is $3120 USD so roughly $1100 cheaper (USD). I'm not sure how comparable the other components are. Biktrix has done some tweaking of the torque sensing to make it smoother so gets the edge there. Frey doesn't hide behind a house fork and seems to offer better shocks. Frey's patented rear suspension may be better than Biktrix. Frey also offers spare batteries and addons much cheaper. Biktrix pricing reflects 20% off for pre-order (not sure if this is standard discount or not). You'll also get it faster from Biktrix. Frey is a 2+ month wait.

 

[smorgasbord]

Biktrix has done some tweaking of the torque sensing so gets the edge there.

You sure about that? There was a thread here recently and the Bafang Torque settings page from a Biktrix owner looked the same to me - did I miss something?

IFrey doesn't hide behind a house fork and seems to offer better shocks.

Biktrix offers the pretty nice Rockshox Bluto and the really nice Wren Inverted as fork upgrades. Pricey, yes.
I can't tell which Rockshox the Ultra FS has for the rear shock. Maybe a Monarch?

 

[TomD]

Yeah, Roshan posted that they had done some tweaking. When asked for more specifics he wasn't willing to share. Something about hex codes which made it sound like it was a firmware tweak - not sure if he was BSing to distract from just looking at the programming. Someone posted the stock settings reported by eggrider and they were the same as the stock Bafang settings.

As far as the stock Biktrix front fork, it just says " Biktrix Inverted Front Suspension - Our suspension fork features 150mm of travel, preload, and lockout." Frey can add any fork you want as well. It just made it hard to compare not knowing what the house brand fork was.

 

[TomD]

Here is the post regarding the tuning Biktrix has supposedly done:

Biktrix Tuning Of G510 Ultra

@roshan Several owners of this bike have related that you have mastered the tuning of this motor which needs help out of the factory. Please tell us what you do that is making it better, your not at Exess level but you are beating all the other guys or so it would seem. Do tell .....

electricbikereview.com

 

[bob armani]

Which one is the hands down best bike? Which is the best value when price is considered? I'm in Canada

$USD https://lunacycle.com/x1-enduro-ebike/

$CAD https://www.biktrix.ca/pages/juggernaut-ultra-fs-details

$USD https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collectio...2s-bikes-dual-sport-mid-drive-full-suspension

$USD http://www.bikesdirect.com/products...ikes-hal-e29-electric-mountain-bikes-29er.htm

Are there any other eMTBs you have considered adding to your options list?

 

[TomD]

I just stumbled onto this facebook group of Bafang Ultra owners. Some interesting ultra bikes in there including some custom builds. I think if you go with the Ultra (G510/M620) motor you'd really prefer a lighter build than something with big fat tires. I just don't think fat tires makes a lot of sense on a FS bike. In particular see this post including one user who owns both the Luna X1 (M600) and an Ultra:

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[Henstelfs]

@tomdav That's a great facebook group thanks! Whichever bike I choose I'll get ~2.5-3 inch tires. I don't need fatties.

 

[Henstelfs]

Are there any other eMTBs you have considered adding to your options list?

Well what do you know I'm gonna blow my budget!

Frey AM1000 especially if they have a group sale or cheap shipping.

Best Value off road Electric Mountain Bike | Frey Ebike

Frey electric bikes are known for superior performance and reliable quality, and for long range ebike and big power ebike. It is a famous brand & manufacturer of the best off road electric bike for adults. We produce affordable electric bikes and accept OEM. USA/Europe warehouses for fast delivery.

frey.bike

Luna X1

X2 Enduro Ebike

Carbon fiber mid drive beauty.

lunacycle.com

Luna Apollo -I love the battery!

Luna Cycle Apollo

Distributors and builders of life changing electric bikes.

lunacycle.com

Voltbike Enduro - Just because it's Real Cheap right now but probably not as fun as these other guys.

VoltBike Enduro - Full-Suspension Mid-Drive Ebike

Electric full suspension bike with mid-drive motor Bafang M600.

www.voltbike.com

I'm just getting in contact with some local experts so I'm still considering building my own if I can save a few grand. But specially tuned M620 > stock BBSHD.

 

[TomD]

BBSHD is a good choice for DIY build if you don't care about torque sensing. On par with the ultra in terms of power.

 

[bob armani]

Well what do you know I'm gonna blow my budget!

Frey AM1000 especially if they have a group sale or cheap shipping.

Best Value off road Electric Mountain Bike | Frey Ebike

Frey electric bikes are known for superior performance and reliable quality, and for long range ebike and big power ebike. It is a famous brand & manufacturer of the best off road electric bike for adults. We produce affordable electric bikes and accept OEM. USA/Europe warehouses for fast delivery.

frey.bike

Luna X1

X2 Enduro Ebike

Carbon fiber mid drive beauty.

lunacycle.com

Luna Apollo -I love the battery!

Luna Cycle Apollo

Distributors and builders of life changing electric bikes.

lunacycle.com

Voltbike Enduro - Just because it's Real Cheap right now but probably not as fun as these other guys.

VoltBike Enduro - Full-Suspension Mid-Drive Ebike

Electric full suspension bike with mid-drive motor Bafang M600.

www.voltbike.com

I'm just getting in contact with some local experts so I'm still considering building my own if I can save a few grand. But specially tuned M620 > stock BBSHD.

Those are some nice picks, however, if you go the DIY route, customization is key. That will be interesting to see what you have in mind for a build though...

 

[Henstelfs]

There

Those are some nice picks, however, if you go the DIY route, customization is key. That will be interesting to see what you have in mind for a build though...

There's also the Wattwagon Travalanche but it's the most expensive at $10747.23 CAD (reduced April price) and only a 728wh battery

Travalanche -Shipping late July 2020

Note: Next batch shipping late July. Please order today to reserve July delivery date. The first full suspension ebike with up to an incredible 3000W of power for unrestricted uphill and downhill performance. The Travalance has the core of the incredible Exess Bikes HP-E180 with an array of...

wattwagons.com

The Exess Looks good too but it's expensive at $9000 CAD and the site's in German

EXESS Bikes

www.exess-bikes.de

That Luna Apollo is looking better every hour, but Frey AM1000 is more affordable and apparently has better components than the base model Biktrix Ultra.

Building my own I might be in over my head..I gotta find a good used FS bike first..we'll see where this rabbit hole goes.

May the fourth be with you.

 

[Henstelfs]

Interesting note from Eddy at Biktrix support.


Also, if I buy two 1000wh batteries can they be both mounted to the bike
and run together?

We are working on this system but currently, we do not offer this as part of the standard bike configuration.

 

[antboy]

The shimano motor is not going to get you 100 miles on a 397wh battery or twice the range of the M600, LMAO. Luna may be posting more honest specs regarding range, it is not comparable to other manufacturer claims. The X1 might be slightly heavier and the tires might have a little more rolling resistance, but ignoring those differences the the M600 motor would have to be 60% as efficient as the Shimano. I call BS. Range will vary with how much power you use. True, you can't use as much power with a 500W peak motor.

Of course range varies depending on how/where you're using it, and I wouldn't expect the E6100 to have nearly the power of the M600.

I based my estimate on multiple reviews/comments that the E6100 is very efficient (80% chance it'll be the motor for my next e-bike) and that people are getting more than the expected max range out of it. With a 508wh battery, the E6100's max range is 120 miles or 170km, so a 397wh battery would work out to be about 95 miles. That's assuming relative flats and Eco mode.

Of course, for any kind of off-road use I wouldn't expect it to be close to that, but off-roading wasn't explicitly mentioned until after I posted.

 

[Henstelfs]

Found a great thread on these bikes.

2020 -Top 10 Ebikes With The Bafang G510 Ultra

There is a reason some of the top bikes are using this motor, pure power 160 NM equal 118 foot lbs. of torque, the Bosch is a very good motor but at only 75nm of torque that is only 55 foot pounds of torque, and really it's designed for the European market not the North American market. If you...

electricbikereview.com

 

[bob armani]

There's also the Wattwagon Travalanche but it's the most expensive at $10747.23 CAD (reduced April price) and only a 728wh battery

Travalanche -Shipping late July 2020

Note: Next batch shipping late July. Please order today to reserve July delivery date. The first full suspension ebike with up to an incredible 3000W of power for unrestricted uphill and downhill performance. The Travalance has the core of the incredible Exess Bikes HP-E180 with an array of...

wattwagons.com

The Exess Looks good too but it's expensive at $9000 CAD and the site's in German

EXESS Bikes

www.exess-bikes.de

That Luna Apollo is looking better every hour, but Frey AM1000 is more affordable and apparently has better components than the base model Biktrix Ultra.

Building my own I might be in over my head..I gotta find a good used FS bike first..we'll see where this rabbit hole goes.

May the fourth be with you.

More great picks, however, you are paying top $$$ for those German bikes. The LunaX or Apollo are more local with easier access support. The Apollo looks a bit on the chunky side for my tastes, so I would probably opt more towards the X. As always, try before you buy is key with higher end models.

 

[Henstelfs]

More great picks, however, you are paying top $$$ for those German bikes. The LunaX or Apollo are more local with easier access support. The Apollo looks a bit on the chunky side for my tastes, so I would probably opt more towards the X. As always, try before you buy is key with higher end models.

I don’t live in California so how would I test ride the Lunas? The X1 doesn’t have a big enough battery for me.

 

[Henstelfs]

Here’s another option for an M620 bike made in Canada. But 17AH battery is Max

eRanger Electric Bikes

eRanger electric bikes your online source for electric bikes we are located in vancouver bc canada. we carry the most advance and powerful electric bikes on the market today. With the 500w 48v power plant it can make your journey a lot more enjoyable.

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