My Top 4 Value FS eMTB

[dmark]

I read carbon fibre isn’t as durable as aluminum framed. Definitely good battery to weight ratio though.

The X1 is also carbon fibre.

If weight is not as important as durability then an aluminum Ultra FS is a good choice, but bikes like the Juggernaut Ultra FS are big and bulky.

If weight and price are your main issues then your best choices are Apollo and X1.

You are having range anxiety about the X1.

I think that the Apollo is a better choice than the X1 plus a spare battery because I think the Apollo without a spare battery will handle better than the X1 with a spare battery, plus you get a better motor in the Apollo.

I would consider the X1 plus a spare battery only if you really need low bike weight and you will only rarely need the extra range of a spare battery.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I only wonder why none of the e-bikes mentioned by the OP comes from a respected e-MTB manufacturer...
Specialized, Giant, Trek, Cannondale, Canyon, Moustache, Haibike, BH, Commencal, Cube, Focus, Norco, Orbea, Pivot, YT, Santa Cruz, even Bulls...

(Because of the price, or the OP believes the e-MTB should have a monster motor?)

 

[dmark]

For the same price/weight, better to have a powerful motor and throttle (and not need them) than to have a respected ebike and need the power/throttle.

Also, based on blog and forum posts, I would say that Biktrix is actually one of the more respected ebike companies, which was a big factor in why I bought a Biktrix bike.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

For the same price/weight, better to have a powerful motor and throttle (and not need them) than to have a respected ebike and need the power/throttle.

Are we talking mountain biking? Throttle?! Oh my. Watch this channel on YT first.

Electric Mountain Bike Network

The Electric Mountain Bike Network (EMBN) is dedicated to igniting your passion for electric mountain bikes (eMTBs) by taking your riding further, faster and...

www.youtube.com

 

[dmark]

Cute bikes. Now watch this:

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Ah. Mountain biking. I see. What elevation gain, what grade, distance, what about technical terrain? How does it go through sand? Rocks, mud, tree roots?
Watch this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7a8XjeDRGg

 

[pmcdonald]

Niave question from a non-MTBer along similar lines: are the current batch of mainstream performance motors lacking? I've taken my Yamaha-equipped bike up some pretty steep inclines and the motor certainly wasn't the one letting the team down! But I don't ride rough trails so I'm unfamiliar with the sort of conditions that might flummox Bosch, Yamaha, Brose and Shimano motors.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

But I don't ride rough trails so I'm unfamiliar with the sort of conditions that might flummox Bosch, Yamaha, Brose and Shimano motors.

Each of these brands makes trail-specific motors. Bosch Performance Line CX, Shimano E8000, Yamaha PW-X2 (Syncdrive Pro), Brose S Mag (Specialized 2.1). These motors are believed to be very durable, and are characterised by high torque, high peak power and capability to sustain high load over a long time. The main problem of the past, that is, overheating has been resolved by major e-bike brands.

 

[dmark]

Ah. Mountain biking. I see. What elevation gain, what grade, distance, what about technical terrain? How does it go through sand? Rocks, mud, tree roots?
Watch this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7a8XjeDRGg

Your first video showed people riding in a river, and now that I have shown you a river that your bikes can't ride in, you would like to move the goal posts.

The bottom line is that you can put the more powerful Bafang mid-drive motor on any kind of bike, and the Bafang will outperform Bosch, Brose, Shimano, Yamaha, etc.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

No respectful e-MTB brand uses Bafang. Period.
P.S. Powerful motor means grip/traction issues on technical ride, a big battery meaning a heavy bike. That's what makes a sorry "e-MTB".

 

[dmark]

By the standard of highly technical rides, any eMTB makes a poor MTB when compared to the same model without the motor plus battery.

I like how you are telling pmcdonald about how great the torque and high peak power of the respected brands are.

But when faced with a skanky motor that puts them to shame, suddenly power is a bad thing.

I think the TS has a good handle on how much motor and battery he needs to get him to the end of the logging road.

My video shows the capability of the Bafang motor with an average rider; your videos are lifestyle commercials with competitive cyclists.

I'd like to see the motors go head-to-head.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Carry the Bafang crap over a fallen tree..

 

[onlineaddy]

Geez, guys, can't we all just ride what we like? And, no, we don't have to like the same bikes.

Embrace diversity!

 

[dmark]

Carry the Bafang crap over a fallen tree..

First you moved the goalposts to a situation where having a MTB would be better than having an eMTB. Now you are moving the goalposts to a situation where having no bike at all would be better.

The $3500 X1 weighs 50-60lbs (minimum 51lbs) with a 1000 (regular mode) to 2000 (ludicrous mode) watt motor. Is there even a "respected" ebike that weighs less at that price-point? And even if you come up with a candidate that is marginally lighter, it will have at most a quarter of the maximum power (probably even less).

If I take the weight penalty of a motor, which will be taken with any ebike, I want some bang for my buck. I want to ride over some obstacles instead of walking. Here's another thing none of your recommendations will do: Go up stairs, no pedalling.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My last word in the whole discussion will be:
The mock e-bikes listed by the OP remind me some Chinese SUV pretending to be off-road cars. I'd choose Land Rover.

 

[dmark]

You can't compete on merit (or else you would have named a competing "respected" bike to the X1 in terms of price/weight/power), so you try to shame others into being brand-slaves.

Land Rover is an excellent choice for your strawman argument: Don't buy an X1 because Land Rover is better than a Chinese SUV.

Your trend is now: Don't buy an X1 because a MTB with no motor is better; don't buy an X1 because walking is better; don't buy an X1 because a Land Rover SUV is better.

Hopefully, no one is holding their breath waiting for an apples-to-apples comparison between an X1 and a "respected" eMTB.

 

[pmcdonald]

If I take the weight penalty of a motor, which will be taken with any ebike, I want some bang for my buck. I want to ride over some obstacles instead of walking. Here's another thing none of your recommendations will do: Go up stairs, no pedalling.

Looks like he's having a lot of fun and I love his passion for the industry and tech. I should note NOTHING in the video appears legal, not the bike spec nor the riding up stairs on the footpath.

Here in Australia there is zero legal benefit to a motor that goes faster than 25 kmh / 15 mph or outputs more than 250W (average output over an hour, I believe), unless you want to risk a massive damages claim and/or jailtime. It's only going to take one or several more high profile ebike accidents from these custom jobs or bikes designed for 'private road use only' to bring the hammer down on all of us.

 

[dmark]

By this logic, driving should be illegal for everyone.

 

[pmcdonald]

By this logic, driving should be illegal for everyone.

You and I will have to disagree on our definition of logic then!

Cars in Australia are not subject to Ebike laws. Perhaps it is different in your country . There is an obligation on the car driver to follow the posted limit and road rules but no limit on power unless you happen to be on a provisional license. Different vehicle class, different set of rules completely. Stay within the bounds of the law with regards to your Ebike and ride sensibly and there is far less scope for prosecution. Remember NSW, the state featured in the video above, is the second most litigious place on earth (behind California).

So I guess my question continues to be, assuming you aim to stay within the letter of the law, what is the practical benefit of one of these motors? Affordability? Better off the mark performance (at least until the legal limit)? Better economy? Genuinely curious.

 

[dmark]

You and I will have to disagree on our definition of logic then!

Cars in Australia are not subject to Ebike laws. Perhaps it is different in your country . There is an obligation on the car driver to follow the posted limit and road rules but no limit on power unless you happen to be on a provisional license. Different vehicle class, different set of rules completely. Stay within the bounds of the law with regards to your Ebike and ride sensibly and there is far less scope for prosecution. Remember NSW, the state featured in the video above, is the second most litigious place on earth (behind California).

So I guess my question continues to be, assuming you aim to stay within the letter of the law, what is the practical benefit of one of these motors? Affordability? Better off the mark performance (at least until the legal limit)? Better economy? Genuinely curious.

I offer this practical guide for people to determine whether an X1 is a suitable ebike for them.

https://external-preview.redd.it/ffxkLlOz6L2KTjWZ14aqeubyuMT4T0kKlu-C8veAObk.jpg?auto=webp&s=4cca418147f43d02961cd0d54c79524323f64f58