My first e-bike (Turbo Creo SL Comp Evo)

[Deacon Blues]

I'm going to say something that is heresy.....given the choice between an aluminum Creo and a Vado 5.0 I'd probably pick the Vado. Up here in the Great White North the price of the Vado 5.0 and the aluminum Creo THE SAME. Hard to believe, but both are $5999 Canadian.
I'd pick the Vado 5.0 because the Creo sucks on the hills and this is from a guy with two carbon road bikes.
Now, if Specialized were to include another level, with something like a 100 watt increase in motor output, I'd switch my choice to the Creo.

 

[rob_s]

Interesting, I would have said the exact opposite. But then in my area of Ontario, canada - there are only very short hills and nothing more than a few minutes of climbing.

 

[Captain Slow]

I'm going to say something that is heresy.....given the choice between an aluminum Creo and a Vado 5.0 I'd probably pick the Vado. Up here in the Great White North the price of the Vado 5.0 and the aluminum Creo THE SAME. Hard to believe, but both are $5999 Canadian.
I'd pick the Vado 5.0 because the Creo sucks on the hills and this is from a guy with two carbon road bikes.
Now, if Specialized were to include another level, with something like a 100 watt increase in motor output, I'd switch my choice to the Creo.

They are quite different bikes though. I couldn't see using the Vado for long group rides.

As far as the Creo on hills, it's in the software. The motor can provide 240 watts which going uphill is pretty good, but the only way you can get 240 watts is to be producing 240 watts yourself. Combined 480 watts going up a hill is a pretty good amount of power, though it may be less than you want. I myself have found it a bit frustrating as I get older my power is down and I'm not getting as much of a boost as I thought I'd get. But it's enough that I'm happy with the bike.

If you're only putting out 140 watts then that extra 100 watts is there. Either you have to put it out yourself or maybe enough owners have to bug Specialized to change the programming.

 

[rob_s]

I'm still not sure how much boost the Creo puts out?
Not having one myself yet I can't verify it.
Some docs say 180% boost. I take this as meaning if I put in 100w then the bike supplies an additional 180w.
Other sources say '2x you' which could mean the above or it could mean that you put in 100w to get an additional 100w.
It would be interesting for an owner to use the power measurements to see what the real story is.

 

[Captain Slow]

I own a Creo and can confirm when they say 2X you that means you put in 100 watts then the motor gives you 100 watts. That's in turbo mode, so if you choose to have Eco as say 25% then you put in 100 watts the motor will give you 25 watts. That's why the battery lasts so long. Very few people can produce big power for an extended period which would use the battery quickly.

 

[rob_s]

Thanks

finally a definitive answer

 

[StmbtDave]

Yesterday I did a slow (11 mph average) group ride of 38 miles with 1,000 ft elevation gain. I used a whopping 2% of my CREO battery. Can’t get much more efficient than that. Extend that out and I could go almost 2,000 miles per charge! That won’t happen... LOL. The entire ride was in 15% boost.

The day before I did a 50 mile ride with 4,500 ft elevation gain. It was 12 miles to the start of the climb and I used 1% getting there. At the top of the climb at 7,100 ft, I only had 24% remaining so I used 75% on the climb. Another 1% getting home and it was my greatest battery drain to date. I was in 15% boost going to and back but the climb was mostly 35% but portions at 60%.

 

[arnoldc]

To those interested in Biker power vs. Motor power.

Here's the output from one of my rides. I'm using a custom profile wherein Sport = 50/65. I spend most of my time in Eco = 25/25.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Most of my rides range from 40 to 70 km. The Vado has no problem covering that distance. As for human output on the hills, I'm in good enough shape that I can produce the needed 'human' watts, but, to be honest, I don't want to any more.
This is a personal thing, and even though I can still get up those hills on my 18 pound Defy I'd rather not. To me it is all about enjoying the ride.

 

[e-levity]

I'm still not sure how much boost the Creo puts out?...
Some docs say 180% boost. I take this as meaning if I put in 100w then the bike supplies an additional 180w.
Other sources say '2x you' which could mean the above or it could mean that you put in 100w to get an additional 100w...

From the Specialized web site: "The lightweight SL 1.1 motor doubles your effort with as much as 240 watts of silent and powerful assistance to amplify your ride."

The Support Level power settings are multiplication factors, and the Peak Power settings determine the upper limit that the motor will supply using that multiplication factor. For the Creo (and Levo SL) this means that if you set Peak Power to 100% you can get up to ~240 watts additional power at any Support Level if you put enough power.

Examples: If you set Turbo Support Level at 100% the motor will provide twice the power you put in (multiplication factor 2:1). At 120 watt rider input the motor will max out at 240 watts giving 360 watts total. Further power has to come from you - if you put in 240 watts the total will be 600 watts (360+240). If you set the Support Level to 50% the multiplication factor is 1:1 so at a Peak Power setting of 100% you will have to put in 240 watts to get the motor to deliver a full 240 watts. The total, 480 watts, is less than if you set the Support Level to 100%. If you set Peak Power levels less than 100% motor output will be limited to that fraction of 240 watts. If you set Eco to 25% and limit Peak Power to 25% you will have a multiplication factor of 0.5:1 up to a maximum assistance of 60 watts which is achieved once you provide 120 watts..

Hope this is helpful.

 

[rob_s]

So this is why I'm confused.
According to Captain Slow, putting in 100w gets a max 100w boost. He says this from experience of owning a Creo.
From the above example of e-levity, putting in 100w gets a max 200w boost.

 

[darlingbastard]

I was also under the impression the creo only doubled your power at max assistance. The official copy plastered on retailer sites seems to indicate only 100%.

“The lightweight SL 1.1 motor doubles your effort with as much as 240 watts of silent and powerful assistance to amplify your ride”

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The lightweight SL 1.1 motor doubles your effort

I think @Captain Slow knows it better. Doubling your effort means you put in 100 W and the motor gives 100 W making 200 W altogether. Your effort is doubled.

 

[Captain Slow]

I wouldn't say I know better. I'm saying it based upon the marketing I've read and that's how it feels when I'm riding. But I could stand to be corrected, but until then I'll stick by my original statement.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I meant you own and ride the Creo, Captain. Mr. e-levity is a Vado rider and he tries to figure out the information from the Specialized website. My understanding of "doubling the effort" is the same as yours. Yes, if the rider is very strong, he might input 240 W and have his effort doubled to 480 W with the equal power from the motor.

 

[arnoldc]

So this is why I'm confused.
According to Captain Slow, putting in 100w gets a max 100w boost. He says this from experience of owning a Creo.
From the above example of e-levity, putting in 100w gets a max 200w boost.

e-levity is right. One has to understand the settings, i.e., profile too. The default is 35/35, 60/60, 100/100 and that's the reason why I made two custom profiles. I have not used the default one since making the custom ones. I use custom 1 when our ride is mostly flat and I want to maximize the battery. I used custom 2 on my last 104 km ride with very long (20++ km ) ascents, in Sport.

I have not used Turbo with my Evo, I experienced it only when I test rode the S-Works Creo SL prior to my purchase.

 

[Captain Slow]

Come to think of it I have never used turbo going up a hill. I just used it once or twice for fun, but other than that I don't use it.

 

[e-levity]

... Mr. e-levity is a Vado rider and he tries to figure out the information from the Specialized website...

Mr. e-levity is also a Levo SL rider. The Levo SL has the same motor as the Creo SL so he has experience with power delivery from the SL 1.1 motor.

In addition, he has used BLEvo riding a Levo to monitor rider and motor power levels and confirm the multiplication factor.


I understand that the wording Specialized uses can be somewhat confusing and could be made clearer.
Here's part of reply from Specialized Rider Care to a similar question raised on the emtb forum.

Mission Control - Understanding Support vs Peak Power in Mission Control App v2.0

Hi Specialized I have a 2019 Turbo Levo. I'm wanting clarification of Support vs Peak Power plse. Have read forum answers where I can and I think I've established that at 100% Support and 100% Peak Power, with a 500w battery, say rider input of 100 watts then bike will deliver 320w (3.2 x...

www.emtbforums.com

Specialized Rider care reply:

Support = the multiplier of rider power added by the motor
Peak Power = maximum electrical power available to supply the motor

In terms of support, each e-Bike motor is slightly different. 100% on the slider means 4.1x rider power for 2019 Levo...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Oh, Mr. @e-levity,

Support = 100% * rider power added by the motor.
Rider power = 100 W.
Support = 100% * 100 W = 100 W added by the motor.

Turbo Levo is very much differently tuned than Turbo Creo. The only proof would be available if @Captain Slow used BLEvo.

 

[e-levity]

OK, here's a simple test you can try to convince yourself.

1. Activate Mission Control on your phone and go to the LET'S RIDE icon.
2. Click on the STATS menu at the top and set two windows to report RIDER POWER and MOTOR POWER (just press and hold a window to see choices).
3. While riding compare the two readings with your Tune Settings.

For example if you set Eco to 50% Support & 50% Peak Power you should observe that Motor Power is similar to Rider Power (i.e., 1X additional power)
If you set the Support and Peak Levels to 100% you should see Motor Power twice the Rider Power (i.e., the bike motor "doubles your effort").
Intermediate Support and Peak Settings will give corresponding proportional values.
This is what I see riding my Levo SL which uses the same motor and battery as the Creo SL.
(By the way, the max power output of my Levo SL is reported as ~300 watts, and I can get this with only 150 watt input )